Yep couldn't agree more.
Jeremy Cameron elbow on Harris Andrews
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Yep couldn't agree more.
demontim27
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Obviously hasn’t played much footy either.
I really hope you don’t coach. If that’s how you teach kids to brace for contact you’re going to see a shitload of broken collarbones and damaged AC joints.
So you want him to jump with his arms down like he's doing the silly salmon? Once again it's a fine line Cameron's elbow could've been a few inches lower and this conversation wouldn't even be happening, if you want these freak incidents out of the game you should be screaming for no contact rules.
Agree, that's probably the most likely intention, but that's still totally unacceptable.
If intending to 'cause a little pain' you jump at someone who is unprotected and can't see you coming, with your elbow up, intending to make forceful contact, even if you don't specifically try and collect them in the head you have to know there's a fair chance that's going to happen and you're going to totally * them up.
People complaining about the game being soft or whatever are nuts. There are times in football you can iron someone out with fairly minimal risk but that is not one of them.
Quite apart from being extremely dirty and stupid, it was actually weak as piss from Cameron. A genuinely tough player would have ignored the defender and gone hard at the football, not braced himself and stuck his elbow up.
I think the point was that he couldn't be spoiling because you don't spoil with your elbow, and he couldn't be bracing, because natural brace is to curl up into a ball (to minimise extruding areas), and you'd generally brace to take impact on your shoulder. You'd never brace by sticking up your elbow (which increases extruding areas) - the human mind just doesn't work that way.
What? You stick your forearm, elbow out to avoid a head collision, it's a natural instinct.
Seriously have you ever played the game.
That is exactly what I think happened. It was clear early that Cameron was never going to be able to contest the ball, sio he went for the man instead. I do not think he intended to injure Andrews, just make him earn the his play on the ball.
Cameron got it wrong and did more harm than he intended. That said, he certainly deserved more than 5 weeks.
At best, his actions were stupid and carried considerable risk to his opponent. With his appalling history, that sort of conduct should attract a very significant penalty.
His and GWS subsequent responses have been terribly poor. As for holding Andrews responsible for not protecting himself from what can only be described as thuggish behaviour., that is an absurd proposition
demontim27
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You brace your arm against your body. His elbow was in line with his joint. That’s not head height. And no one, in any league, is taught to extend an elbow to protect their head. The only time you’re told to hold your arms up like that is to keep them free when you have possession.
Pretty sure they got rid of that rule
Yeah you do that when you expect impact, Imo Cameron didn't see him till the last second because he was licking his lips at the footy coming and didn't expect Andrews agility and courage to get back to the contest. it's called a reflex action not every contact is how you explain it.
My playing and coaching days are well behind me now and no I would not teach anyone to do that just as Cameron was never taught to do it.
Like I said before football is not played in freeze frames and slow motion which many of you believe. All these decisions and time to make them you believe is there is not reality and if you have played any serious footy you would know this.
If you believe that when the ball was kicked out of the middle that Cameron immediately decided to take out Andrews then I can’t really help you with that. Cameron did a very reckless thing and has copped his whack, you believe he wanted to do it I don’t.
Time to move on.
demontim27
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You realise I’ve nwver said anything like the above?
Cameron didn’t pre-emptively decide to belt him in the head 40 minutes before. He saw he wasn’t going to contest the ball and wanted to “make him earn it”. It’s not uncommon but if you’re going to do it, you have to wear the risk of injuring someone. Did Cameron plan to hit him in the head? No. Did Cameron plan on giving him a decent knock because he knew he was going to get there second? Yes. This was decided when the ball was kicked
But you can’t claim that Cameron thought he was going to be making a play for the ball in the second-two before it. He was only half way between Gardiner and Andrews when Andrews had punched the ball clear.
this guy understands. people can be so over-analytical but all we've seen contests like this all the time. The only difference here is that Cameron has been grossly negligent in his attempt to make a hard contest which completely falls on him.
There is a distinction to be made between gross negligence and something thats intentional
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Under the current rules, it can only be intentional.
Intentional in this case reflects the action, not the outcome. In my view he 'intended' to give him a decent nudge but I'm not convinced he 'intended' to badly injure Andrews. When you act like Cameron did though, you fully wear the consequences.
Yes he was grossly negligent and fully deserves at least 5 weeks (if not more) but the AFL got it right as far as intentional was concerned
The decision wasn't "intentionally high" nor "intentionally severe". It was "intentional striking". He meant to hit him and he did. The fact that he did collect him high and severe don't count when deciding intent. I put it down as intentional striking as well, but don't think Jeremy meant to collect him high. 5 weeks is about right. It was stupid and very poor form, but it was still a 2 second decision, and I don't see that pushing it to 7 weeks would do any more than 5 weeks to convince him to change his ways.
Why would you stick an elbow out then...
It connected so perfectly that it was clear there was intent
I reckon he meant to hit him, and cause him a bit of pain - teach him a lesson for getting in his way... But let's not be ridiculous... I think saying that he intentionally injured Harris is just a bridge too far.
It wouldn't have been a lot of time to think, and I think the thought pattern would've gone something like this: "damn, too late, ah well - clean him up". I don't think it would've been "too late, let's see if I can make him unconscious".
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