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Toast Jesse White

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I have stated it in a few places already but the poor form of both White and Cloke in 2015 has been vastly overestimated. I have no doubt he can come back. Buckleys standing as a coach is dependent on it to a degree. He can't afford to see another Collingwood star leave the fold and do well elsewhere.

Like those thousand that have already went elsewhere and are staring.

Beams has barely got onto the park, and when he did, he played two games and back off for the year.
Thomas was the same, very injury prone. Plays a reasonable game against us, and then a bit less of a player this week, so no real loss.
Wellingham same again. Struggles to get on the park, when he does he does ok, flashed some brilliance against us, and I thought Oh No, and then went missing for most of the rest of the game.
Dawes, we are getting a pattern forming here. Injured a fair bit, when he plays, it is only average.
Lumumba basically hasn't done any more than our kids have. Makes as many mistakes and shows some good form occasionally, well and truly covered by Langdon or Maynard.
Seedsman, he still is doing what he did with us. Shows potential, then drops off, or stuffs up royally. He stuffed up majorly the other night for Adelaide, and I was thinking, imagine if he did that with us. I can't remember the exact action, I think he missed an easy set shot at goal, from fairly close in. He is far from playing well though. Howe would be playing a better game than him currently, which is half the deal coming back the other way.

Ones to half regret;
Heath Shaw, seems to be getting better with age. Killing it at GWS. However, we did get a guy 8 years his junior in Adams. Comparing Shaw in 2008, is comparing them at the same age. Adams is tracking far better than Shaw was at the same age, and will continue to give us value once Shaw hangs up the boots.
Kennedy, Bit sad we lost this guy. Wasn't doing that badly for us. Howe and Crocker we got for Kennedy and Seedsman. Howe is beating Seedsman, and Crocker is not quite beating Kennedy yet, but if you compare them at the same age, Kennedy's 2013 to Crocker's 2016, they are remarkable similar. Think by the looks of Crocker, we will end up on top in the end, but it is a shame we took Kennedy's pick to get him. Could of done it with the selection that pick Wills, and put Wills on our Rookie list perhaps at the expense of Tim Golds.

If anything, Buckley has dodged a bullet to not have on the sidelines all these players. At least Greenwood, Crisp and DeGoey are playing unlike Beams. Others shaky, but so are their replacements. ie; Thomas, Scharenberg. Lumumba, Varcoe. Dawes & Wilkins, Broomhead & Ramsay. Wellingham, Grundy.

I have great hopes for Cox ever since I saw him in the VFL last year. Funny thing is at the start of the year I was optimistic about his prospects compared to most of the board and now I find myself in the camp of hosing down expectations. He has promise but has only played 4 games. Let's not pencil him in as a fixture in the team just yet.

If he just keeps up what he is doing, that will be fine. The potential though is huge. Dean Cox in 2001 and Mason Cox of 2016 is a good comparison. Mason is a mature ager, which is a shame we don't get to possibly have him for the full length of an AFL career. But if we treated him like he was five years younger, the comparison with Dean at 20 is a good one. Mason 9.2 is 1 and 1/2 tapouts less than Dean 10.8. Mason 9.0 getting it a couple more times average than Dean 7.7. Mason 1.8 Goals a game, Dean 0.1. And then tackles Mason 2.8 and Dean 1.1.

Hopefully Cox can keep going to rival Sandilands first year in the game in 2003. Only 7.3 Disposals a game, but 18.6 tapouts. I think Cox could do that if left in ruck.
 
But we lost to Carlton........I still can't get my head around that fact......irrespective if White played ok or not!

It had nothing to do with the forward line though. Forward line funcntioned well with Blair and White in very rare form.
 
It had nothing to do with the forward line though. Forward line funcntioned well with Blair and White in very rare form.

But at the end of the game we scored less than they did?

By the way I blame the whole team & especially the Coach for that game!
 

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Like those thousand that have already went elsewhere and are staring.

Beams has barely got onto the park, and when he did, he played two games and back off for the year.
Thomas was the same, very injury prone. Plays a reasonable game against us, and then a bit less of a player this week, so no real loss.
Wellingham same again. Struggles to get on the park, when he does he does ok, flashed some brilliance against us, and I though Oh No, and then went missing for most of the rest of the game.
Dawes, we are getting a pattern forming here. Injured a fair bit, when he plays, it is only average.
Lumumba basically hasn't done any more than our kids have. Makes as many mistakes and shows some good form occasionally, well and truly covered by Langdon or Maynard.
Seedsman, he still is doing what he did with us. Shows potential, then drops off, or stuffs up royally. He stuffed up majorly the other night for Adelaide, and I was thinking, imagine if he did that with us. I can't remember the exact action, I think he missed an easy set shot at goal, from fairly close in. He is far from playing well though. Howe would be playing a better game than him currently, which is half the deal coming back the other way.

Ones to half regret;
Heath Shaw, seems to be getting better with age. Killing it at GWS. However, we did get a guy 8 years his junior in Adams. Comparing Shaw in 2008, is comparing them at the same age. Adams is tracking far better than Shaw was at the same age, and will continue to give us value once Shaw hangs up the boots.
Kennedy, Bit sad we lost this guy. Wasn't doing that badly for us. Howe and Crocker we got for Kennedy and Seedsman. Howe is beating Seedsman, and Crocker is not quite beating Kennedy yet, but if you compare them at the same age, Kennedy's 2013 to Crocker's 2016, they are remarkable similar. Think by the looks of Crocker, we will end up on top in the end, but it is a shame we took Kennedy's pick to get him. Could of done it with the selection that pick Wills, and put Wills on our Rookie list perhaps at the expense of Tim Golds.

If anything, Buckley has dodged a bullet to not have on the sidelines all these players. At least Greenwood, Crisp and DeGoey are playing unlike Beams. Others shaky, but so are their replacements. ie; Thomas, Scharenberg. Lumumba, Varcoe. Dawes & Wilkins, Broomhead & Ramsay. Wellingham, Grundy.



If he just keeps up what he is doing, that will be fine. The potential though is huge. Dean Cox in 2001 and Mason Cox of 2016 is a good comparison. Mason is a mature ager, which is a shame we don't get to possibly have him for the full length of an AFL career. But if we treated him like he was five years younger, the comparison with Dean at 20 is a good one. Mason 9.2 is 1 and 1/2 tapouts less than Dean 10.8. Mason 9.0 getting it a couple more times average than Dean 7.7. Mason 1.8 Goals a game, Dean 0.1. And then tackles Mason 2.8 and Dean 1.1.

Hopefully Cox can keep going to rival Sandilands first year in the game in 2003. Only 7.3 Disposals a game, but 18.6 tapouts. I think Cox could do that if left in ruck.

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But at the end of the game we scored less than they did?

By the way I blame the whole team & especially the Coach for that game!

I applaud Carlton who wanted it more, and blame out players who didn't want it as much, also, we were missing 15 players to choose from. I think from memory. Our defense was also pretty bad, forward line good though. A number of forwards p[lpayed well.
 
I applaud Carlton who wanted it more, and blame out players who didn't want it as much, also, we were missing 15 players to choose from. I think from memory. Our defense was also pretty bad, forward line good though. A number of forwards p[lpayed well.

The Coach chose not to play our Full Back & Best Forward.

Injury excuse doesn't cut it with me......Lions game proves that!
 
S

Solid post but he was dropped for a reason...he was poor and weak in the contest...stuff stats don't show.

Is there a comparison to White? A player who was potentially great, but took until he was older to show some real good signs.

The closest comparison I can think of is Jarrad Waite. At the same age, Waite was in his 9th year at Carlton in 2011. He had kicked 125 goals. In the same period, White has kicked 115 goals. Across both of their careers, Waite beats White on average of 2 possessions a game, and 2 marks a game, and tackles more by 1 tackle a game.

Waite was probably that little bit better than White, but his worst games were very similar. It wasn't until he went to North he showed that he could play consistently.

I am not sure whether I want to delist White at years end. If he plays terrible again, then yes, but if he kept even 3/4 of what he is doing in the past two weeks up, he may just well be a late developer.

If we do get rid of Cloke, it would be crazy to not have White as a fall back to Cox and Moore. Currently, better than Cloke though. Can't keep Cloke hoping for a miracle turn around and delist White.
 
Is there a comparison to White? A player who was potentially great, but took until he was older to show some real good signs.

The closest comparison I can think of is Jarrad Waite. At the same age, Waite was in his 9th year at Carlton in 2011. He had kicked 125 goals. In the same period, White has kicked 115 goals. Across both of their careers, Waite beats White on average of 2 possessions a game, and 2 marks a game, and tackles more by 1 tackle a game.

Waite was probably that little bit better than White, but his worst games were very similar. It wasn't until he went to North he showed that he could play consistently.

I am not sure whether I want to delist White at years end. If he plays terrible again, then yes, but if he kept even 3/4 of what he is doing in the past two weeks up, he may just well be a late developer.

If we do get rid of Cloke, it would be crazy to not have White as a fall back to Cox and Moore. Currently, better than Cloke though. Can't keep Cloke hoping for a miracle turn around and delist White.
Hard to argue with your rationale, but to be honest my gut feel, having seen him a lot, is that this is his purple patch and as good an output as we will see...can he sustain long enough to keep his career going? Time will tell.
 
D9 I think you may be a bit too pure of heart.
Read again. Hopefully the pun sinks in.

For god's sake will someone in Australia take this guy out and corrupt him a bit.

I got it when Doodles said it, but I didn't initially when reading your one, as I thought you were just putting them in order of best to worst.
 
Hard to argue with your rationale, but to be honest my gut feel, having seen him a lot, is that this is his purple patch and as good an output as we will see...can he sustain long enough to keep his career going? Time will tell.

Yeah, I know. Good chance of that, but I am being optimistic. Maybe this is different. I think he is a better Defender than in the Forward line.
 

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Sorry to be picky but I keep hearing Cloke dropped off in the 2nd half of 2015 but I don't find any evidence of that. As I have posted elsewhere in the five games prior to his injury he polled Brownlow votes twice and was listed in our best in 2 of the other 3. He only played 2 games after that when he wasn't right and then was out for last 2 rounds

I can accept the last part of his year was scuppered by injury but I cant see where his form dropped off noticeably in the 2nd half of the year.
Maybe its simply a perception thing but I can't remember him playing well since Queen's birthday last year. But I'm not going to argue the point. I've been one of Cloke's biggest advocates and appreciate a lot of the work he does up the ground - sadly I started to wonder about his ability to maintain his standards late last year and maybe, his form this year has influenced my memory
 
teeehhheeeeehee

Moore White Cox for the pussies this week you reckon?

Careful though... Tradedraft is threatening to report people who make cox jokes now.
Inb4 Slobbo writes an article about our match selection committee being racist, sexist perverts.
 
Maybe its simply a perception thing but I can't remember him playing well since Queen's birthday last year. But I'm not going to argue the point. I've been one of Cloke's biggest advocates and appreciate a lot of the work he does up the ground - sadly I started to wonder about his ability to maintain his standards late last year and maybe, his form this year has influenced my memory
I think it is perception. He kicked 5 goals and voted in the Brownlow the week after QB WE. He was listed in Collingwoods best the 2 weeks after that and did have a big game against the Hawks. Yes he kicked 1 goal 4 and had the chance to win the game. He didn't but that has been his Achilles all his career. I am not saying this 2 weeks were outstanding just that they were solid as was his 2015 season until he got injured shortly after and that was essentially season done

His 2016 start was poor, that can't be argued but I think any fair assessment would say that poor form doesn't spill back into 2015 which is really my major point. On that basis his form issues are not so long standing and we should allow the real possibility they can be overcome and he can have more productive years ahead.
 
I think it is perception. He kicked 5 goals and voted in the Brownlow the week after QB WE. He was listed in Collingwoods best the 2 weeks after that and did have a big game against the Hawks. Yes he kicked 1 goal 4 and had the chance to win the game. He didn't but that has been his Achilles all his career. I am not saying this 2 weeks were outstanding just that they were solid as was his 2015 season until he got injured shortly after and that was essentially season done

His 2016 start was poor, that can't be argued but I think any fair assessment would say that poor form doesn't spill back into 2015 which is really my major point. On that basis his form issues are not so long standing and we should allow the real possibility they can be overcome and he can have more productive years ahead.

I certainly hope so.
 
I have stated it in a few places already but the poor form of both White and Cloke in 2015 has been vastly overestimated. I have no doubt he can come back. Buckleys standing as a coach is dependent on it to a degree. He can't afford to see another Collingwood star leave the fold and do well elsewhere.

I have great hopes for Cox ever since I saw him in the VFL last year. Funny thing is at the start of the year I was optimistic about his prospects compared to most of the board and now I find myself in the camp of hosing down expectations. He has promise but has only played 4 games. Let's not pencil him in as a fixture in the team just yet.
White's derision last year seems to have largely stemmed from a few untimely missed set shots.
 

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White's derision last year seems to have largely stemmed from a few untimely missed set shots.

Not sure I agree Kilmo. I think White's demeanour has changed. He looks to have a greater appetite for the competition, is more involved, taking the game on. I agree he was OK last year, and generally held his place in the 22. But I think there is a significant improvement in most facets of his game this year, including follow up efforts. Remains to be seen if he can sustain it.
 
White's derision last year seems to have largely stemmed from a few untimely missed set shots.

The derision will return soon enough mate. White will prove me right.
 
like cloke at the start of the season he looked lost and unsure of his role, but he seems to now know.
as a whole l don't think he is a lot better than last year, but right now he seems to do the little things better
hope it continues.
 
teeehhheeeeehee

Moore White Cox for the pussies this week you reckon?

Careful though... Tradedraft is threatening to report people who make cox jokes now.
Or just for something a bit out of the box........Moore Brown Cox Ramsy Crisp Sidebottom
60913bc43b67333304bf171aa30e5701.jpg
 

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