News John Barker resigns - Post #447

[Jimmae]

Warning: the following is all second or third-hand information.

It conflicts with what others have posted (re: Barker Vs Teague argument and what was said).

1. Sayers was angry after we lost to Collingwood (end of March).

2. He has done his own research, spoken directly to people himself (players, coaches, support staff).

3. Continued doing this in the background over the course of the season. This was ramped up in Sydney.

4. MLo all but begged him not to perform an immediate review upon the announcement that he was going to be the new CFC president.

5. A lot was riding on this extended trip to Sydney. Two highly winnable games against teams that were battling for the lower half of the eight like we were aspiring to.

6. Despite not being thrashed, he felt that we weren't really in either match when it mattered most and that the on field results weren't indicative of a competitive team.

7. With it being almost impossible to make finals (would need to finish 8-2 at absolute worst) he decided that it was time to do the review. Belief is that it is better to do the review now when people can see what is happening live rather than at the end of the season when people's allegiances and perspective can impact upon their view and what they will say. Doing it live means nobody can protect mates, etc.

8. Lloyd isn't wrong when he says Teague will coach in 2022. There is an almost universal appreciation of Teague. He could have easily have prioritized other things going on in his life but has been diligent at the club.

9. What became clear is that Barker was a significant issue. Players have no idea where to (to coin a basketball term) "box out" defensively at stoppages, where they should be positioning themselves, etc. The smarter players have naturally done better (e.g. Walsh) but the gulf shouldn't be as glaring.

10. The sentiment is that Barker has thrown his hands in the air and resorted to scapegoating Teague for his own deficiencies.

11. Barker was advised in no uncertain terms that he was going to be let go at the end of the season. He then offered his resignation. The club accepted it immediately and advised him that because of his decade of service to the club, where he was well liked by his colleagues, other staff members, and the players that they would frame it as a well-loved member of staff (because that is true, he was).

Thanks for this, it echoes a lot of my own observations.

Any link to other rumours on the forum? I went into the Bluemour thread and apparently travelled back in time to a 1970s animal psychology lecture

 

[Dramoth]

Thanks for this, it echoes a lot of my own observations.

Any link to other rumours on the forum? I went into the Bluemour thread and apparently travelled back in time to a 1970s animal psychology lecture

At least you knew when it was from

 

[RPCB]

He’s starting off with a bang to begin with isn’t he. Gets pissed off back after the Collingwood loss, starts talking to players to get an idea of what they’re thinking, talks to the coaching staff and others in the football department, loss two winnable games and goes boom. Announces an official external review, the next day Barker up and quits and says he’ll finish up at the end of the year. Board nope, do your talking walking, and his gone.

Potential members of the review panel are leaked later in the day, and it’s a good panel, former CEO at the MCC and Carlton, former GM of football at two clubs and a former head of the AFLPA.

It might all be a massive PR stunt to get the members and supporters on his side, but the guy was the CEO at PwC Australia and Pacific. He has a clue or 3.

I already like Sayers. Who else managed to get Pavlich to Carlton? Try as they all might, it was Luke Sayers.

 

[Big Red is back]

Thanks for all your efforts, Daisy spoke glowingly re him yesterday on MMM

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Who coaches our midfield now?

Some bloke named Sam Walsh. I've been told he can do it all.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Warning: the following is all second or third-hand information.

It conflicts with what others have posted (re: Barker Vs Teague argument and what was said).

1. Sayers was angry after we lost to Collingwood (end of March).

2. He has done his own research, spoken directly to people himself (players, coaches, support staff).

3. Continued doing this in the background over the course of the season. This was ramped up in Sydney.

4. MLo all but begged him not to perform an immediate review upon the announcement that he was going to be the new CFC president.

5. A lot was riding on this extended trip to Sydney. Two highly winnable games against teams that were battling for the lower half of the eight like we were aspiring to.

6. Despite not being thrashed, he felt that we weren't really in either match when it mattered most and that the on field results weren't indicative of a competitive team.

7. With it being almost impossible to make finals (would need to finish 8-2 at absolute worst) he decided that it was time to do the review. Belief is that it is better to do the review now when people can see what is happening live rather than at the end of the season when people's allegiances and perspective can impact upon their view and what they will say. Doing it live means nobody can protect mates, etc.

8. Lloyd isn't wrong when he says Teague will coach in 2022. There is an almost universal appreciation of Teague. He could have easily have prioritized other things going on in his life but has been diligent at the club.

9. What became clear is that Barker was a significant issue. Players have no idea where to (to coin a basketball term) "box out" defensively at stoppages, where they should be positioning themselves, etc. The smarter players have naturally done better (e.g. Walsh) but the gulf shouldn't be as glaring.

10. The sentiment is that Barker has thrown his hands in the air and resorted to scapegoating Teague for his own deficiencies.

11. Barker was advised in no uncertain terms that he was going to be let go at the end of the season. He then offered his resignation. The club accepted it immediately and advised him that because of his decade of service to the club, where he was well liked by his colleagues, other staff members, and the players that they would frame it as a well-loved member of staff (because that is true, he was).

Point 7.

 

[bmaurizio]

John Barker is a professional , an experienced and talented footballer and tried had as a coach for the club.
I wish him all the best in his endeavors.

 

[Wickzki]

If what Wickzki says is true, and no reason to doubt it, I really like the way Sayers seems to operate.

Without divulging specific sources, I approached a few people who I know to be reliable. What I posted was said by multiple people. There was a little more said but the stuff I didn't post was not able to be corroborated from another.

I felt that the stuff that I didn't post for that reason had an increased likelihood to be opinion or speculation. If multiple people said it then it suggests to me there was more truth in it than not (or they had the same inner source).

I stand by what I posted. I felt it was all logical and falls into line with what it should feel like. As always, happy for an ITK to correct me on anything not factual or different from my sources

Finally, nothing was shared to me in confidence. They were aware and accepting that I'd share. Whether any of them broke an in confidence that I cannot tell you.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Without divulging specific sources, I approached a few people who I know to be reliable. What I posted was said by multiple people. There was a little more said but the stuff I didn't post was not able to be corroborated from another.

I felt that the stuff that I didn't post for that reason had an increased likelihood to be opinion or speculation. If multiple people said it then it suggests to me there was more truth in it than not (or they had the same inner source).

I stand by what I posted. I felt it was all logical and falls into line with what it should feel like. As always, happy for an ITK to correct me on anything not factual or different from my sources

Finally, nothing was shared to me in confidence. They were aware and accepting that I'd share. Whether any of them broke an in confidence that I cannot tell you.

I'd still be interested in hearing the uncorroborated stuff if you don't mind sharing? Either in the appropriate thread, or via PM if you're more comfortable in keeping it off the board.

 

[agro]

Warning: the following is all second or third-hand information.

It conflicts with what others have posted (re: Barker Vs Teague argument and what was said).


9. What became clear is that Barker was a significant issue. Players have no idea where to (to coin a basketball term) "box out" defensively at stoppages, where they should be positioning themselves, etc. The smarter players have naturally done better (e.g. Walsh) but the gulf shouldn't be as glaring.

I have difficulty accepting this - if it was so glaring for so long to then Teague would have/should have recognised this - as would the senior/smarter players - and should have been addressed if Teague had the will.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I have difficulty accepting this - if it was so glaring for so long to then Teague would have/should have recognised this - as would the senior/smarter players - and should have been addressed if Teague had the will.

Becomes an internal struggle, between coaches saying 'trust me, it'll work eventually' to players saying 'Why does it never come near me in this setup' etc. A coach must be confident in their teachings and system, otherwise it'll be sensed that they aren't and fail immediately. Unfortunately the double edged sword nature of this is coaches can often be a bit slower to adjust something that isn't working as they have to believe in what they're teaching/ instructing for it to be a clear message to the playing group.

On this basis I'm hoping the bye week will allow Teague to step back and properly look at the system now. I can understand from his POV during the season that it'd feel like 'so close', 'not quite enough from player x' etc and not so much fallingback onto the system as he must be confident in it. I'd be shocked if the first game after the break wasn't fairly different from a Carlton perspective in just personnel use, positioning and spread.

 

[Wickzki]

I have difficulty accepting this - if it was so glaring for so long to then Teague would have/should have recognised this - as would the senior/smarter players - and should have been addressed if Teague had the will.

It's amazing what you let go in a team environment with someone who is genuinely loved as a person. You never worked with someone who was a terrific person but inadequate at their job? It's bloody hard to make the call and often needs someone not in that inner circle to make that call.

The call was finally made

 

[agro]

We’ve been “trusting” Barker for 10 years.

 

[Jimmae]

I have difficulty accepting this - if it was so glaring for so long to then Teague would have/should have recognised this - as would the senior/smarter players - and should have been addressed if Teague had the will.

Becomes an internal struggle, between coaches saying 'trust me, it'll work eventually' to players saying 'Why does it never come near me in this setup' etc. A coach must be confident in their teachings and system, otherwise it'll be sensed that they aren't and fail immediately. Unfortunately the double edged sword nature of this is coaches can often be a bit slower to adjust something that isn't working as they have to believe in what they're teaching/ instructing for it to be a clear message to the playing group.

On this basis I'm hoping the bye week will allow Teague to step back and properly look at the system now. I can understand from his POV during the season that it'd feel like 'so close', 'not quite enough from player x' etc and not so much fallingback onto the system as he must be confident in it. I'd be shocked if the first game after the break wasn't fairly different from a Carlton perspective in just personnel use, positioning and spread.

It's amazing what you let go in a team environment with someone who is genuinely loved as a person. You never worked with someone who was a terrific person but inadequate at their job? It's bloody hard to make the call and often needs someone not in that inner circle to make that call.

The call was finally made

Additionally, when the additional running and effort required from that failure has flow-on effects to other parts of systems and structures, it can be difficult to pick apart critical failure points, especially on match day.

Coaches and players can often lose track of the big picture as they focus on specific areas (player review, technique execution, etc). In my experience Barker is someone who can waffle his way through enough to convince people who aren't looking super closely at him.

The game has just kept creeping past him, and now the gap is too big, and his player choices for setups too glaring.

 

[rampar]

It's amazing what you let go in a team environment with someone who is genuinely loved as a person. You never worked with someone who was a terrific person but inadequate at their job? It's bloody hard to make the call and often needs someone not in that inner circle to make that call.

The call was finally made

Heads of anything need to be strong enough to make that call. The more I hear the more I feel that Teague owes too many favours or lacks the balls to give people honest feedback. Murphy thinking that he was doing fine says a lot!

 

[Arr0w]

Right or wrong, all decisions start and finish with the head coach. Assistants are merely pawns in an ongoing game of chess

 

[Stamos]

I have difficulty accepting this - if it was so glaring for so long to then Teague would have/should have recognised this - as would the senior/smarter players - and should have been addressed if Teague had the will.

Becomes an internal struggle, between coaches saying 'trust me, it'll work eventually' to players saying 'Why does it never come near me in this setup' etc. A coach must be confident in their teachings and system, otherwise it'll be sensed that they aren't and fail immediately. Unfortunately the double edged sword nature of this is coaches can often be a bit slower to adjust something that isn't working as they have to believe in what they're teaching/ instructing for it to be a clear message to the playing group.

On this basis I'm hoping the bye week will allow Teague to step back and properly look at the system now. I can understand from his POV during the season that it'd feel like 'so close', 'not quite enough from player x' etc and not so much fallingback onto the system as he must be confident in it. I'd be shocked if the first game after the break wasn't fairly different from a Carlton perspective in just personnel use, positioning and spread.

Another factor is probably the Covid year. It was so disjointed, and there were a lot of other things going on, it would probably be harder to rectify.

However, Teague and Lloyd should have realised by the end of the year. It was obvious to us watching on tv.
Change should have occurred then, and I think a big part of our current predicament is that there were no new assistants brought in.

 

[gbatman]

Some bloke named Sam Walsh. I've been told he can do it all.

Probably better than the previous guy.

 

[mediumsizered]

Thanks for all your efforts, Daisy spoke glowingly re him yesterday on MMM

I bet most players would echo Daisy's sentiments.

We don't get to see/hear about what assistant coaches provide inside the club. Some supporters like to think they know it all, but they are kidding themselves.

 

[Dramoth]

Additionally, when the additional running and effort required from that failure has flow-on effects to other parts of systems and structures, it can be difficult to pick apart critical failure points, especially on match day.

Coaches and players can often lose track of the big picture as they focus on specific areas (player review, technique execution, etc). In my experience Barker is someone who can waffle his way through enough to convince people who aren't looking super closely at him.

The game has just kept creeping past him, and now the gap is too big, and his player choices for setups too glaring.

Quicksand effect. Things are going well, then you make a mistake, you try and overcompensate to correct the mistake… and you make another, and another. It’d be the same in the coaches box. You set up one way. The opposition counters that, but you’re still looking at the first setup thinking it’s going great, and all of a sudden shit goes sideways and you’re playing catch up and getting deeper in the quicksand. And while you’re trying to sort shit out, the players are losing confidence in your ability to come up with a winning play… and they stop chasing, running.

I feel that Barker has been over his head for a long while now and has been, as you said, waffling on and selling the con that he’s a good coach.

 

[Wickzki]

Another factor is probably the Covid year. It was so disjointed, and there were a lot of other things going on, it would probably be harder to rectify.

However, Teague and Lloyd should have realised by the end of the year. It was obvious to us watching on tv.
Change should have occurred then, and I think a big part of our current predicament is that there were no new assistants brought in.

Covid is a really good point.

Most clubs that let assistants go let those with limited tenure go.

I wonder what the backlash would be for letting someone go who was as well liked as JB and who had his tenure?

For a club that has overemphasised optics and messaging (doing the right thing because it's "the right thing to do)....

 

[Stamos]

Covid is a really good point.

Most clubs that let assistants go let those with limited tenure go.

I wonder what the backlash would be for letting someone go who was as well liked as JB and who had his tenure?

For a club that has overemphasised optics and messaging (doing the right thing because it's "the right thing to do)....

Think it was very likely a factor in their thinking, but they got it wrong.

 

[Wickzki]

Think it was very likely a factor in their thinking, but they got it wrong.

They've made lots of mistakes. What is done is done. At least now we've got someonr who seemingly has his head firmly planted on his shoulders

 

[katmanblue]

I must admit I feel dirty thinking about the glee I felt when I heard he was leaving. Cheap, I reckon.
Need to be better than that.

Lovely fella, met him a couple of times.

He didnt work out, but I wish him the best.

 

[TheReal99prelim]

Warning: the following is all second or third-hand information.

It conflicts with what others have posted (re: Barker Vs Teague argument and what was said).

1. Sayers was angry after we lost to Collingwood (end of March).

2. He has done his own research, spoken directly to people himself (players, coaches, support staff).

3. Continued doing this in the background over the course of the season. This was ramped up in Sydney.

4. MLo all but begged him not to perform an immediate review upon the announcement that he was going to be the new CFC president.

5. A lot was riding on this extended trip to Sydney. Two highly winnable games against teams that were battling for the lower half of the eight like we were aspiring to.

6. Despite not being thrashed, he felt that we weren't really in either match when it mattered most and that the on field results weren't indicative of a competitive team.

7. With it being almost impossible to make finals (would need to finish 8-2 at absolute worst) he decided that it was time to do the review. Belief is that it is better to do the review now when people can see what is happening live rather than at the end of the season when people's allegiances and perspective can impact upon their view and what they will say. Doing it live means nobody can protect mates, etc.

8. Lloyd isn't wrong when he says Teague will coach in 2022. There is an almost universal appreciation of Teague. He could have easily have prioritized other things going on in his life but has been diligent at the club.

9. What became clear is that Barker was a significant issue. Players have no idea where to (to coin a basketball term) "box out" defensively at stoppages, where they should be positioning themselves, etc. The smarter players have naturally done better (e.g. Walsh) but the gulf shouldn't be as glaring.

10. The sentiment is that Barker has thrown his hands in the air and resorted to scapegoating Teague for his own deficiencies.

11. Barker was advised in no uncertain terms that he was going to be let go at the end of the season. He then offered his resignation. The club accepted it immediately and advised him that because of his decade of service to the club, where he was well liked by his colleagues, other staff members, and the players that they would frame it as a well-loved member of staff (because that is true, he was).

I can't accept point 8. Teague is the senior coach and gameplan (including a lack of team defence, tempo and ability to stop scoring) and selection are two of his key portfolios. If there is universal appreciation for Teague after the last 18 months, we may as well shut down Ikon Park