News John Barker resigns - Post #447

[TheReal99prelim]

It's amazing what you let go in a team environment with someone who is genuinely loved as a person. You never worked with someone who was a terrific person but inadequate at their job? It's bloody hard to make the call and often needs someone not in that inner circle to make that call.

The call was finally made

Teague is the SENIOR coach. There is a distinction in power, authority and influence between a senior coach and his assistants. Buck stops with the senior coach

 

[TheReal99prelim]

Right or wrong, all decisions start and finish with the head coach. Assistants are merely pawns in an ongoing game of chess

Agree 100%...let's not get distracted by Johnny Barker. He was probably a liability but Teague had the power to mitigate his level of liability as his boss!!

 

[juzz88]

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at.

Are you suggesting that because the buck stops with the senior coach, we should keep sacking them, regardless of how incompetent the assistants may be?

 

[Stamos]

They've made lots of mistakes. What is done is done. At least now we've got someonr who seemingly has his head firmly planted on his shoulders

Are you talking about Power, or Sayers?

 

[Dramoth]

Agree 100%...let's not get distracted by Johnny Barker. He was probably a liability but Teague had the power to mitigate his level of liability as his boss!!

Unfortunately, Teague might have been Barkers boss, but Lloyd is an old friend of Barkers from when they both played at Hawthorn.

 

[Arr0w]

Unfortunately, Teague might have been Barkers boss, but Lloyd is an old friend of Barkers from when they both played at Hawthorn.

Dram, players around the league know each other, whether they were at the same club or not

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

Right or wrong, all decisions start and finish with the head coach. Assistants are merely pawns in an ongoing game of chess

I know it sounds sensible on the surface but I have real difficulty with this and would suggest that’s rarely how it works in practice with any organisation if a certain size.

If you have this kind of binary approach, then all you do is encourage/force the person at the top to micro manage, second guess their staff and control everything.And that is a TERRIBLE outcome, undermining everyone’s ability to do their job, including the head coach.

if you have devolved responsibility (and their isn’t any other option), then it follows that there has to be accountability at the devolved levels. You can’t say to the head - you have to give up responsibility BUT we’re going to hold you accountable for the outcome.

I’ve thought contrary in the past in the football context but have really changed my mind. It’s no different to any organisation in reality.

What Teague IS responsible for is intervening if it’s not working. But you can’t be too hasty about that, you need to back your staff to a point if you’re an effective leader.

 

[Original Moody Blue]

Quicksand effect. Things are going well, then you make a mistake, you try and overcompensate to correct the mistake… and you make another, and another. It’d be the same in the coaches box. You set up one way. The opposition counters that, but you’re still looking at the first setup thinking it’s going great, and all of a sudden sh*t goes sideways and you’re playing catch up and getting deeper in the quicksand. And while you’re trying to sort sh*t out, the players are losing confidence in your ability to come up with a winning play… and they stop chasing, running.

I feel that Barker has been over his head for a long while now and has been, as you said, waffling on and selling the con that he’s a good coach.

It sounds to me as though the guy was cooked. 11 years under the pump, having to deal with new coaches, game plans and Administrations, and the politics which should never be underestimated. The game has changed significantly in 11 years.

You make it sound like he was employed at the club and just showed up to collect his paycheck every week and then went home. Give the guy a little more respect than that.

 

[JustaBattler]

Stocker has been played on 4 of the best small forwards over the last 4 weeks - he was signed on as an aggressive inside mid who can kick off both feet. This is just a continuation of SPS to the backline because we needed a small defender. Ed Curnow who is one of the game's best lock down mids- played as a defender - and we get absolutely destroyed in the contest by a depleted West Coast. Cottrell played on a wing - presumably one of the key playmaking positions in any side - can't get any possessions and when he does turnover either by hand or foot- did anyone notice his handball straight to Darling when Newman was concussed? Brainless.

I could go on about selection and match day responses to the opposition who all seem to find a way to kick however many goals are required to beat Carlton y 20 points irrespective of any start they have given Carlton. Massive indicator of lack of game day nouse on top of week in week out proof of poor defensive structure. Jones intercept mark - followed by turnover - pretty much every time he touches the ball - how many time do we need to see him do this before the there is a better plan?

Baker can't be responsible for everything wrong at Carlton - and if he was wtf was Teague doing?

Sorry - the evidence is in and impossible to ignore - serious question marks about Teague's ability to manage a coaching staff and a football team. He is playing a game plan that doesn't suit the characteristics of the players he has at his disposal and has been for over a year now. You cant keep on making silly errors, backing the same players, trying to play the same dysfunctional game plan week in week out - and pretend that everything is ok.

Very hard for me to believe that everything is Barkers fault.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

It sounds to me as though the guy was cooked. 11 years under the pump, having to deal with new coaches, game plans and Administrations, and the politics which should never be underestimated. The game has changed significantly in 11 years.

You make it sound like he was employed at the club and just showed up to collect his paycheck every week and then went home. Give the guy a little more respect than that.

I have a rule for myself and my staff that you should never stay in the same position for more than 3 years, after that you become stale and far less productive. JB although having shifted into different lines has basically had the same title for 11 years, and no doubt would have had a fair amount of CBF and even been a bit jolted where he was personally going seeing his dream of being a senior coach washing away.

 

[T2B_]

Stocker has been played on 4 of the best small forwards over the last 4 weeks - he was signed on as an aggressive inside mid who can kick off both feet. This is just a continuation of SPS to the backline because we needed a small defender. Ed Curnow who is one of the game's best lock down mids- played as a defender - and we get absolutely destroyed in the contest by a depleted West Coast. Cottrell played on a wing - presumably one of the key playmaking positions in any side - can't get any possessions and when he does turnover either by hand or foot- did anyone notice his handball straight to Darling when Newman was concussed? Brainless.

I could go on about selection and match day responses to the opposition who all seem to find a way to kick however many goals are required to beat Carlton y 20 points irrespective of any start they have given Carlton. Massive indicator of lack of game day nouse on top of week in week out proof of poor defensive structure. Jones intercept mark - followed by turnover - pretty much every time he touches the ball - how many time do we need to see him do this before the there is a better plan?

Baker can't be responsible for everything wrong at Carlton - and if he was wtf was Teague doing?

Sorry - the evidence is in and impossible to ignore - serious question marks about Teague's ability to manage a coaching staff and a football team. He is playing a game plan that doesn't suit the characteristics of the players he has at his disposal and has been for over a year now. You cant keep on making silly errors, backing the same players, trying to play the same dysfunctional game plan week in week out - and pretend that everything is ok.

Very hard for me to believe that everything is Barkers fault.

I'm not exactly in the Sakc Teague camp, but I can't argue with much in this post.

 

[JustaBattler]

I'm not exactly in the Sakc Teague camp, but I can't argue with much in this post.

I'm not sure about sacking Teague - I am sure though that he is learning the caper and oon a very very steep learning curve - something that Club assured us wasn't the case when he was appointed.

 

[gunslingr]

Stocker has been played on 4 of the best small forwards over the last 4 weeks - he was signed on as an aggressive inside mid who can kick off both feet. This is just a continuation of SPS to the backline because we needed a small defender

Bolton/the club had Stocker training as a defender from day one, or at least before the 2019 season started. Right or wrong call I'm not sure...

Looking at round by round teams from 2019 again, I almost got whiplash seeing SPS go from starting mid/forward to starting in the backline or on the bench. No prizes for guessing which club personnel upheavals these changes coincided with fairly precisely - Teague evidently didn't like him in the middle from his first day in charge.

 

[Stamos]

Teague evidently didn't like him in the middle from his first day in charge.

That's not true.
Samo was only shifted back after a few games because we needed better kicks in the undermanned backline.

 

[gunslingr]

That's not true.
Samo was only shifted back after a few games because we needed better kicks in the undermanned backline.

Did Teague come out and say that at the time? Cos he was shifted back instantly when Teague came on, pretty much for good - I think it also coincided with a Marchbank injury, but in 5 of Teague's first 6 games as coach, according to the Carlton site, SPS started on the bench. Not going to go back and see where he played the majority of those games, but considering he pretty much only started in defence or the bench for the remainder of 2019 I can guess

 

[JustaBattler]

Little doubt that both Eddie and McGovern were Teague 'asks' to complete his forward line.
Has preferred Newnes/Gibbons/Cottrell and even Setterfield to LoB on a wing.
has moved Docherty from defense to a wing - and Saad / Williams as new recruits not asked to take on responsibility for damaging small forwards - who have pretty much won games for oppostion with poor Stocker on their best - 4 weeks in a row now.
Inexplicable match-up for Heeney against Sydney - Ed as a defender ? really - never ever played there before...

It is a mess and it cant be all on Barker.

 

[Stamos]

Did Teague come out and say that at the time? Cos he was shifted back instantly when Teague came on, pretty much for good - I think it also coincided with a Marchbank injury, but in 5 of Teague's first 6 games as coach, according to the Carlton site, SPS started on the bench. Not going to go back and see where he played the majority of those games, but considering he pretty much only started in defence or the bench for the remainder of 2019 I can guess

Likewise I'm not going to watch all the games, but it wasn't immediate.

There's this from his season review:

Back-line injuries presented opportunities, as Petrevski-Seton assumed a role off half-back towards the tail end of the year.

Samo reflects on breakout year

Sam Petrevski-Seton has well and truly established himself as an integral player at Carlton.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[reg_lower91]

This has been glaring the last 2 seasons.

Just doesn't make sense that there was no change at the end of last year.

it wreaks of operational ignorance. Or blind favouritism/ bias towards his appointment. If either are found to be true, Lloyd’s in big trouble.

 

[gunslingr]

Likewise I'm not going to watch all the games, but it wasn't immediate.

There's this from his season review:

Samo reflects on breakout year

Sam Petrevski-Seton has well and truly established himself as an integral player at Carlton.

www.carltonfc.com.au

I guess they're not wrong about the specific position, but Teague's first game as coach had him named as starting on the bench, followed the next week by being named in the back pocket, and then bench, bench, bench, bench, and then HBF). I think that's fairly abrupt.

I'm extremely prepared to agree SPS may well have played a bit in the middle in all of those games, but looking at the published line-ups, I reckon you could be forgiven for thinking Teague's opinion of SPS was somewhat below Bolton's well before his omission from the side in 2021.

 

[Stamos]

I guess they're not wrong about the specific position, but Teague's first game as coach had him named as starting on the bench, followed the next week by being named in the back pocket, and then bench, bench, bench, bench, and then HBF). I think that's fairly abrupt.

I'm extremely prepared to agree SPS may well have played a bit in the middle in all of those games, but looking at the published line-ups, I reckon you could be forgiven for thinking Teague's opinion of SPS was somewhat below Bolton's well before his omission from the side in 2021.

Published line-ups?
I guess you think Dennis was our long-serving CHB?

 

[Dramoth]

Published line-ups?
I guess you think Dennis was our long-serving CHB?

You mean he wasn't?

 

[BlueGum]

The mischievous part of me wants to change the thread title to re-signs.

 

[Aphrodite]

The mischievous part of me wants to change the thread title to re-signs.

Do it

 

[BigFrizz36]

It's a fair stretch clearly but imagine this;

1) a modicum of common sense is applied and the plow doesn't get suspended.

2) plow has a good day against the swans and as a result Heeney doesn't. Blues squeek home.

3) blues on a bit of a roll. Plowman towels up Ryan and Curnow sheed and blues get home.

4) blues are 6 and six and dreaming of finals. No hint of review discussions.

 

[Jimmae]

It's a fair stretch clearly but imagine this;

1) a modicum of common sense is applied and the plow doesn't get suspended.

2) plow has a good day against the swans and as a result Heeney doesn't. Blues squeek home.

3) blues on a bit of a roll. Plowman towels up Ryan and Curnow sheed and blues get home.

4) blues are 6 and six and dreaming of finals. No hint of review discussions.

I think that Sydney result still would have seen things ramp up.