Jonathon Brown - why?

[jimmy_clement#8]

This is responding to speculation, but Caro amongst others are sticking to it.

This has been touched on in a few other threads, but my confusion is such that I feel obliged to set this out in the hope someone can explain to me why the hell we'd want Brown despite his brilliance and experience.

Jonathon Brown is 27, playing unfit, and wants a 5 year deal. Apparently we've offered him the 5 years he wants to sport black and white next year. I'd be shit scared of Browny after 30. Having him next year would be brilliant, but one could argue the decline has begun, if only just.

But, of bigger importance:

Currently at the Pies we have these players as recognised forwards, who all seemed destined for some kind of future given their form at VFL or AFL level, or are already established AFL 'leading' forwards:

Anthony Rocca, 30
Travis Cloke, 21
Sean Rusling, 21
Chris Dawes, 20
Ben Reid, 19
Brent Macaffer, 20
John Anthony, 20
Paul Medhurst, 26

Sure, Anthony has been earmarked for defense, but either way, we still have a plethora of forwards, and all bar two are 21 or under. And that doesn't include the inevitable small forwards, like Didak (?), Thomas, Davis, Dick, etc. that will make up the forward line with a few of those talls.

Brown would either come in the PSD or in a trade. Trade, we'd be selling the farm for him. If you're gonna sell the farm, sell it for a midfielder, something we need. Via PSD, sure, we don't lose the picks, but it reaffirms the overriding point, we just don't need him, unless we prepared to ship off some very exciting key position forward talent. There's simply no need for that whatsoever.

In short: sorry, thanks but no thanks to Brown. 5 years, sheesh..

 

[Dave The Man]

This is responding to speculation, but Caro amongst others are sticking to it.

This has been touched on in a few other threads, but my confusion is such that I feel obliged to set this out in the hope someone can explain to me why the hell we'd want Brown despite his brilliance and experience.

Jonathon Brown is 27, playing unfit, and wants a 5 year deal. Apparently we've offered him the 5 years he wants to sport black and white next year. I'd be shit scared of Browny after 30. Having him next year would be brilliant, but one could argue the decline has begun, if only just.

But, of bigger importance:

Currently at the Pies we have these players as recognised forwards, who all seemed destined for some kind of future given their form at VFL or AFL level, or are already established AFL 'leading' forwards:

Anthony Rocca, 30
Travis Cloke, 21
Sean Rusling, 21
Chris Dawes, 20
Ben Reid, 19
Brent Macaffer, 20
John Anthony, 20
Paul Medhurst, 26

Sure, Anthony has been earmarked for defense, but either way, we still have a plethora of forwards, and all bar two are 21 or under. And that doesn't include the inevitable small forwards, like Didak (?), Thomas, Davis, Dick, etc. that will make up the forward line with a few of those talls.

Brown would either come in the PSD or in a trade. Trade, we'd be selling the farm for him. If you're gonna sell the farm, sell it for a midfielder, something we need. Via PSD, sure, we don't lose the picks, but it reaffirms the overriding point, we just don't need him, unless we prepared to ship off some very exciting key position forward talent. There's simply no need for that whatsoever.

In short: sorry, thanks but no thanks to Brown. 5 years, sheesh..

He would never come by PSD

 

[Nardz]

for the sake of saying we got a 'big name'.

i cant think of any other reason...

 

[jimmy_clement#8]

He would never come by PSD

Just outlining the scenario in black and white (pardon the pun). Out of contract, doesn't re-sign, a trade doesn't get made, he leaves for nothing thru PSD. Out of Browny's nature probably to screw over the Lions, but its not impossible.

 

[Brent24]

Agreed, he's not worth it. Trust our young forwards, and go for some mids.

 

[Brahma Bull]

Definately not worth it, how many good years does he have left?? 1 or 2??

If we want to land a big name go for Daniel Kerr and/or Cousins, we need more quality midfielders.

 

[shawthing09]

Palmer outlined it perfectly, If we were to chase hard and get J Brown, It would be about big name lust and Ego, It would be about the illusion of being proactive without really thinking, it would be a desperate decision made in hope, with no real rationality or it would be a decision about public perception and supporter base and marketing above winning a flag. It would be conceding we are a long way off a flag to boost marketability while our on field struggles.

 

[Soul_Pie]

I personally believe our forwardline is our greatest asset. We're one of the highest scoring team in the league (we were even higher by comparison before the form slump) and we have so many forward options that we're spoiled for choice. Not only that, but we have an excellent CHF prospect in Travis Cloke whose development is tantamount to the long-term success of the team.

If we were to try and pursue players from other clubs, then we should be trying to get some quality midfielders. This is the area where I feel we need to be building if we are going to become a legitimate flag contender. As much as I think Brown will help us in the short term, as a long term prospect I think we should stick with the emerging players that we have at the moment.

 

[HFF]

If we get J. Brown, surely that spells the end for Rocca?

I think the club would force him out and into retirement like they did with Licca. It could potentially open the door for him to try his hand in the NFL.

 

[BEEG]

This is responding to speculation, but Caro amongst others are sticking to it.

This has been touched on in a few other threads, but my confusion is such that I feel obliged to set this out in the hope someone can explain to me why the hell we'd want Brown despite his brilliance and experience.

Jonathon Brown is 27, playing unfit, and wants a 5 year deal. Apparently we've offered him the 5 years he wants to sport black and white next year. I'd be shit scared of Browny after 30. Having him next year would be brilliant, but one could argue the decline has begun, if only just.

But, of bigger importance:

Currently at the Pies we have these players as recognised forwards, who all seemed destined for some kind of future given their form at VFL or AFL level, or are already established AFL 'leading' forwards:

Anthony Rocca, 30
Travis Cloke, 21
Sean Rusling, 21
Chris Dawes, 20
Ben Reid, 19
Brent Macaffer, 20
John Anthony, 20
Paul Medhurst, 26

Sure, Anthony has been earmarked for defense, but either way, we still have a plethora of forwards, and all bar two are 21 or under. And that doesn't include the inevitable small forwards, like Didak (?), Thomas, Davis, Dick, etc. that will make up the forward line with a few of those talls.

Brown would either come in the PSD or in a trade. Trade, we'd be selling the farm for him. If you're gonna sell the farm, sell it for a midfielder, something we need. Via PSD, sure, we don't lose the picks, but it reaffirms the overriding point, we just don't need him, unless we prepared to ship off some very exciting key position forward talent. There's simply no need for that whatsoever.

In short: sorry, thanks but no thanks to Brown. 5 years, sheesh..

100% on the money

Im really scared that we do land him and i will not buy a membership if we do becuase we will pay the same price for as we would of Judd this is rediculas 5 years for a bloke that has always has injuries

 

[Primetime Pricey]

It is a very interesting dillema if the Brisbane proposed deal doesnt get accepted by Brown.
Do you take a 27 year old whose best footy is behind him and stick with youth and target a midfielder or key defender? The thing i look at is if you were going to offer him a 5 year contract you must be willing to accept you are only going to get maybe 3 good seasons out of him out of the 5 but those 3 years are going to be better then most players in the comp in that spot can produce.
I sat watching Brisbane vs North Melbourne the other week looking at Brown manhandle North's defence like they were nothing, the very same defence a few weeks earlier controlled the Collingwood forward line.
The man may not move like he use to but he is still in the top 4 Forwards in the competition.
Cloke is still a kid and you could move Brown to the square which would be fine. Rusling is potential but must look at him being on the park as a bonus with his record. Dawes is a work in progress and still only 20, Anthony can go back and isnt a tall anyways, Macaffer is a kid and has plenty of time and Reid is pure potential.
You could definitley take Brown to try and get short term success but if your looking at long term then i wouldnt bother.

my opinion only.

 

[Primetime Pricey]

Definately not worth it, how many good years does he have left?? 1 or 2??

If we want to land a big name go for Daniel Kerr and/or Cousins, we need more quality midfielders.

We could still land Cousins if he wanted to come no matter on the decision on Brown. Cousins would come very cheap come trade week.

 

[Jabso]

If you have a look at Rocca at age 30 imagine Brown at age 31/32. Not saying that he will be as tired and broke down as that but it may not be as far off as you think. And then he'd be our highest paid player. I'm approaching the speculation of Brown with great trepidation.

 

[Primetime Pricey]

If you have a look at Rocca at age 30 imagine Brown at age 31/32. Not saying that he will be as tired and broke down as that but it may not be as far off as you think. And then he'd be our highest paid player. I'm approaching the speculation of Brown with great trepidation.

I see what ur saying Jabso but i would be just looking at him from age 27-30, anything beyond that is a bonus. Your not going to get 5 good years out of him, unrealistic.

 

[shawthing09]

I see what ur saying Jabso but i would be just looking at him from age 27-30, anything beyond that is a bonus. Your not going to get 5 good years out of him, unrealistic.

The problem is in those 3 years our midfield is going to be in a massive transition period. Our defence looks like it will be pretty set as we have got some really good game time into the likes of Heath, Harry, Brown, Maxwell. Our young fowards mainly due to injury still haven't begun that transition (bar Cloke.) Getting Brown would be trying to fast track the transition from Rocca too Dawes Reid etc, The midfield however is still ages away too. Swan Pendles are good enough now, Thomas and Wellingham are still fairly unproven/ pure potential as midfielders. Cook Stanley are yet to proove themself at AFL level. J-Mac looks good but is still just a kid. Burns and O'Bree as has been shown for most of the year are showing the affects of age. So great our foward line is dangerous and our backline is solid but who is going to get the fowards the ball???

 

[Scottabe_pendles]

Just wondering in all this could he (or cousins) be switched onto the veterans list (over 30 or whatever the rule is) or is that a games for current club type thing?

 

[Dogs_Playing_Poker]

How are people saying his best footy is behind him.... He has kicked 63 goals this year, probably all australian, captained the Victorian team. Why would you not want the club to chase him. He is a gun, and if we want Travis Cloke to turn into a gun CHF then who better to learn from then J dawg! His leadership is something that we really lack and our younger players will walk so much taller with him around. You say put faith in our young forwards, well how bout we put faith in our young midfielders (Pendlebury,Thomas,Clark,Wellingham,Stanley,Cook,Barham,Mcarthy)
Would love to see Browny at the pies, But highly unlikely!

 

[Frederlick]

Interesting in The Age this morning that Mathews says Brown has been injured all year. Normally a coach wouldn't say that, is he running interference on this? As all on here would have heard, word on the street is that Brown is/was close to agreeing until last weeks little distraction. I think itis 50/50 on wether he is needed or not, if he was fit he would transform our fwd line into something that would make the Hawks set up look under 12's! Injured he is a 5 year salarly cap disaster.

 

[mdc]

Conspiracy theory: Brown knows he doesn't have much left, agrees to a long, lucrative contract with his rival club (that'd be Collingwood) in order to screw them over.

Leigh Matthews, just back from shooting yet another Delfin commercial, sits in front of his fireplace twirling his moustache and laughing maniacally.

(That's the best explanation I've got.)

 

[Primetime Pricey]

The problem is in those 3 years our midfield is going to be in a massive transition period. Our defence looks like it will be pretty set as we have got some really good game time into the likes of Heath, Harry, Brown, Maxwell. Our young fowards mainly due to injury still haven't begun that transition (bar Cloke.) Getting Brown would be trying to fast track the transition from Rocca too Dawes Reid etc, The midfield however is still ages away too. Swan Pendles are good enough now, Thomas and Wellingham are still fairly unproven/ pure potential as midfielders. Cook Stanley are yet to proove themself at AFL level. J-Mac looks good but is still just a kid. Burns and O'Bree as has been shown for most of the year are showing the affects of age. So great our foward line is dangerous and our backline is solid but who is going to get the fowards the ball???

Agreed, our midfield is a issue and our forward line hasnt been a major worry for a long time now.
I can see positives and negatives to getting Brown. What if we trade for Kerr and he goes off the boil as he has in the past or if he continues to get injured like this season? I mean getting both would be nice but would never happen so who do u go for? Kerr or Brown? What if Kerr doesnt want to leave WCE? That just leaves Brown open for trade at this stage. Do you make a play for him?
I really think our midfield will be good in the next few seasons. Pendles and Daisy hopefully continue to develop, you have McCarthy that looks like he will be a player, next season we get to draft Scott Reed from the NSW\ACT Rams who was on our NSW scholarship and the kid owned at the State under 18's so thats another midfielder that hopefully goes well.

 

[Primetime Pricey]

How are people saying his best footy is behind him.... He has kicked 63 goals this year, probably all australian, captained the Victorian team. Why would you not want the club to chase him. He is a gun, and if we want Travis Cloke to turn into a gun CHF then who better to learn from then J dawg! His leadership is something that we really lack and our younger players will walk so much taller with him around. You say put faith in our young forwards, well how bout we put faith in our young midfielders (Pendlebury,Thomas,Clark,Wellingham,Stanley,Cook,Barham,Mcarthy)
Would love to see Browny at the pies, But highly unlikely!

I think he has a few good seasons left in him, im all for getting him as well.
Look at Lloyd, people wrote him off but then the team starts playing well and gets more chances at getting the pill and look at his last 6 weeks!
A forward is only as good as the midfield kicking it to him, Brown would own if he came down.

 

[jimmy_clement#8]

Hutchy says that if you change clubs you lose the right to be placed on veterans list at your new club. So if Browny stays at the Lions, he'd be able to go on the list, but he would never be able to if he moves this year to whoever.

I'm not selling the farm for leadership. Granted its highly desirable given our recent form off-field, but if the only real reason we want Brown is for what he does off the field, not on it, then we've forgotten why we exist.

Is his best footy behind him? Probably not, he still has another year or two where he could produce AA standard footy. In fact he probably would, he is a star. But for the next 5 years? Some say that he is on the decline as of now (only just, not saying he's done by any stretch). So imagine him in 3,4, 5 years time.

I'll meet you halfway - if it was for 2 years, then yeah maybe. But not for 5 years, not 27-year old Jonathon Brown, and not a forward anyway, why strengthen a strength and leave weakness unattended?

 

[OniAu]

id love to have him , but itd cost us to get him.

plus our premiership window isnt in the next two years if you look at it realistically

our core group of anthony dawes wellingham pendles thomas obrien shaw clarke jmac goldsack brown wood will all peak in 3 to 4 years hopefully

also the factor others mention, we need mids , a top mid around 25 to 27 would be ideal for our team , as it lessens the load on swan and pendles who seem to be the only ones consistent in the midfield. while most others just pitch in every now adn then.

BE GREAT but no in terms of our weaknesses and his age and price to get him.

we have something great building at collingwood, dont sell it away for one player. look at hawks and geelong. they both built the teams they have without pretty much any big trade ins to the club , dont see why we have to with the youing talent we have atm

 

[jimmy_clement#8]

We're slowly rebuilding again, whilst remaining competitive. It seems we've got most, if not all the talls we need for a premiership tilt down the track. And bit by bit we are gathering the mids to go in and around those talls. Let's not stuff that good work up because we're impatient.

 

[Quicky]

No Way!!! He's a star but in no way what we need atm. We already have a decent forward line - if not a very good one.

You can win a premiership without a star forward line (ie wcoast, geelong, adelaide), but you cannot win a premiership without a very good midfield. This is what we desperately need and what we should trade/draft for.

And lets not forget hes an injury case in his late 20's, and will soon be too old for a very young team.