Knightmare's 2011 List Management Thread - Part 2

[Quicky]

Slightly related but didn't we pick up Cribbin as an international rookie because he had an English passport?

That loophole got closed:

34.2.4 Player Eligibility for Inclusion on International Scholarship List

A Player is eligible to be included on the International Scholarship
List of a Club only if the Player satisfies the age requirements under
Rule 34.2.5 and:
(a) is not an Australian citizen and the Player has been domiciled
in the International Development Region for at least 3
continuous years immediately before his inclusion on an
International Scholarship List and has not to the satisfaction of
the General Manager – Football Operations lived in Australia
for any substantial period of time prior to his inclusion on the
International Scholarship List; or
(b) has been a resident in Australia for no more than 3 years
before his inclusion on an International Scholarship List and
prior to being a resident in Australia, he has been domiciled in
the International Development Region for at least 3 continuous​

years.

Ireland is not an international development region.

 

[Knightmare]

Updated thread.

Have updated some of the potential draft choices and added a review of trade week and some thoughts on the new additions.

 

[vjknight]

interesting thread on the cats board........cats list is pure.

with the recent retirements of certain players, the geelong list is now absolutely, totally made up of players who debuted for geelong. no players traded in, pinched, offered brown paper bags etc. all players recruited by the club, developed in their systems, debuted and remaining on their list.

it would be considered obsessive & paranoid except for some recent successes

 

[Shellz]

interesting thread on the cats board........cats list is pure.

with the recent retirements of certain players, the geelong list is now absolutely, totally made up of players who debuted for geelong. no players traded in, pinched, offered brown paper bags etc. all players recruited by the club, developed in their systems, debuted and remaining on their list.

it would be considered obsessive & paranoid except for some recent successes

Wow. That is kind of amazing.

 

[soreplums]

Would like to know what sort of shape Rusling is in. Would be worth a punt as a mature age rookie if he kept himself fit and healthy. His speed would help with the forward 50 pressure when required.

Also with the 50m arc generally always open and players taking marks running with the flight of the ball, he would be very hard for defenders to keep up with.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I must be missing something bc my understanding of the CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement) which came in for 2007 is that National Draft selections must be contracted for a minimum of 2 years which would mean that Farmer and Stubbs cant be delisted.

Maybe there is a rule they can be transferred to the rookie list on the same pay or something but its pretty clear that it is 2 years from the document. I know we punted Thoolen after 1 year but i think that was before this CBA...unsure?

I might have the rule wrong re the 2 years but was pretty clear from what I read.

The rule says they must be offered a two year contract.
Collingwood did that: so the rule has been complied with.

You have taken a leap that is not in the rules i.e you have assumed that the rule means that they then can't be delisted

They are two different things

As it turned out both Farmer and Stubbs were delisted

 

[Knightmare]

interesting thread on the cats board........cats list is pure.

with the recent retirements of certain players, the geelong list is now absolutely, totally made up of players who debuted for geelong. no players traded in, pinched, offered brown paper bags etc. all players recruited by the club, developed in their systems, debuted and remaining on their list.

it would be considered obsessive & paranoid except for some recent successes

What has impressed me about Geelong is the way they have drafted SO WELL.

Consistantly get great value for their selections. Can see them doing it again.
At 32 will probably get one of Talia/Boseley as a key defender.
At 34 they still will have access to some good talents. Maybe they get Paine as a KPF. Or a Grigg/McKenzie among others could be some other value options they might consider.
Even at 48 they could get a Marley Williams - who could be the next generation Paul Chapman.

Just see so many good picks in their selection range. Think they will nail it again.

Also Geelong's player development has been as good as any since 2007. Have done a brilliant job at bringing players through and developing them into monsters.


Since we enter the draft at pick 50 we just won't have any real access to talent, because after around pick 40 it goes from solid+even to not a whole lot left.

 

[Ed D]

One area Geelong have struggled in over recent years has been their ruck depth. It's going to be interesting to see how they go without Ottens. Actually this year is going to be telling for them. West and co will need to stand up for them.

 

[Knightmare]

One area Geelong have struggled in over recent years has been their ruck depth. It's going to be interesting to see how they go without Ottens. Actually this year is going to be telling for them. West and co will need to stand up for them.

They have a few interesting ones developing.

Questions over Nathan Vardy's hip injury. If he gets back for next year possibly a combination of he and Trent West would be a solid one.

Dawson Simpson is also developing strongly and could play more next year.

But probably not as much depth anymore with Mark Blake gone. Think they will be ok though, even if it is a Simpson/West combination.

 

[Ed D]

Yeah, that is a pretty raw combo though. It'll be interesting to see how they hold up in big games or against big opposition. Also what happens if they get an injury?

 

[Quicky]

One area Geelong have struggled in over recent years has been their ruck depth. It's going to be interesting to see how they go without Ottens. Actually this year is going to be telling for them. West and co will need to stand up for them.

King, Ottens, Blake, Mumford, West, Simpson and Vardy over the last few years. I wouldn't say they have struggled for depth. Losing Mumford hurts. Still I think you are right to say that West, Simpson and Vardy are going to need to step up. Ottens is big shoes to fill. I recall Ceglar doing very well against Simpson in the VFL this year.

 

[Knightmare]

Yeah, that is a pretty raw combo though. It'll be interesting to see how they hold up in big games or against big opposition. Also what happens if they get an injury?

The ruck stocks are only really: West, Simpson, Vardy.

Then as possibles for minor minutes: Hawkins (but best as KPF) then maybe Bathie who at VFL level for Geelong has been played as a key defender, but I see no reason why he couldn't be thrown into the ruck. Just didn't get the ruck minutes last year with strong depth at the position. Should get minutes this year though you'd think unless they draft one.

If after an immediate depth option a Russell Gabriel or Daniel Currie would suffice. Other option would be to consider Bolger/Downie at 32/34 if available.

Don't think Geelong will necessarily struggle in the ruck. I rate West very highly and don't mind what i've seen from Simpson. Vardy also before injury was very impressive. But they certainly won't be nearly as dominant at the position as they have been at the past - because lets face it. Ottens was a beast.

 

[Ed D]

King, Ottens, Blake, Mumford, West, Simpson and Vardy over the last few years. I wouldn't say they have struggled for depth. Losing Mumford hurts. Still I think you are right to say that West, Simpson and Vardy are going to need to step up. Ottens is big shoes to fill. I recall Ceglar doing very well against Simpson in the VFL this year.

On paper they've looked good but in reality King left them after 2007 (?) when he was injury riddled in his final years at the club and Blake has always been a spud which is why he got delisted this year. Mumford only had one decent season with them and even then he wasn't getting regular games. He's played his best football as a Swan and Geelong would be wishing he was still on their list. West, Simpson, Vardy and Hawkins are all they have now as far as playing the ruck at senior level. Without a doubt Ottens has got them through this golden period for them, and there has been a drop off to their 2nd ruckman each year. That's how I see it anyway.

 

[mattys123]

Even though we knew it was going to happen, it has been confirmed just now that Cribbin and McNamara are the only 2 rookies that Collingwood will "retain" for the 2012 season.

http://twitter.com/#!/AFL_PKeane

AFL_PKeane Patrick Keane



2012 Retained Rookies - Pies; P Cribbin, S McNamara. Ess; nil. Frem; G Roberts. Cats; R Bathie, G Burbury, J Simpkin, J Stringer, J Walker.

http://twitter.com/#!/AFL_PKeane

 

[TradeDraft]

Even though we knew it was going to happen, it has been confirmed just now that Cribbin and McNamara are the only 2 rookies that Collingwood will "retain" for the 2012 season.

http://twitter.com/#!/AFL_PKeane



http://twitter.com/#!/AFL_PKeane

Does he know why we changed our Mind on Shae?

 

[standingroomonly]

AFL_PKeane: Collingwood - permission to train with club; Daniel Farmer, Trent Stubbs, Brad Dick, Scott Reid.

Good to see we're giving all those boys a chance.

Bolton isn't listed as training anywhere, or any of our other delistings for that matter.

 

[TradeDraft]

AFL_PKeane: Collingwood - permission to train with club; Daniel Farmer, Trent Stubbs, Brad Dick, Scott Reid.

Good to see we're giving all those boys a chance.

Bolton isn't listed as training anywhere, or any of our other delistings for that matter.

So we are just going to Rookie all these 4 then

 

[standingroomonly]

Looks that way, although Dick may decide to not return to football.

Some interesting names on other clubs lists, St Kilda has Beau Dowler and Marcus Marigliani, Richmond has ex melbourne player Maric, and Richmond has Contin training with them which is good i thought he was good in the VFL this year and was unlucky to get the chop.

 

[Knightmare]

So we are just going to Rookie all these 4 then

Training with us doesn't mean we will draft them.

With Reed and Dick I suspect not.

A club might decide they want Farmer as a rookie, then maybe Hawthorn decide that they want Stubbs as a rookie.

Training with a club just means they are given the opportunity to keep up their football conditioning for the scenario that a club drafts them and means that if we are at all interested that we can follow their progress.

 

[Number 10]

Lolwut? Why would we delist Reed off the rookie list then pick him up again in the rookie draft TD?

 

[Reykjavik]

Lolwut? Why would we delist Reed off the rookie list then pick him up again in the rookie draft TD?

Rookies are only allowed 3 years If you want to keep them on the rookie list after that you need to delist and re-rookie.

 

[DermiesLuvChild]

Lolwut? Why would we delist Reed off the rookie list then pick him up again in the rookie draft TD?

I doubt the club will re rookie Reed. Just doing the Collingwood supportive thing - you can train with us, enter the draft & best of luck in the future (we will help you as much as we can). I like how the club sticks by players that way.

 

[Snoop Dog]

I doubt the club will re rookie Reed. Just doing the Collingwood supportive thing - you can train with us, enter the draft & best of luck in the future (we will help you as much as we can). I like how the club sticks by players that way.

yeah Pies often have a few ex players down and seem to go in a different direction come the day. Would think Farmer will get picked up though and am probably hopeful Dick will but the reality is the body is a struggle for him. I think we can move the others through the departure lounge.

 

[Knightmare]

Wanted to get some discussion going. Not allot of draft talk going on, so thought I'd bring up some names and update this old thread. *To save you all reading through the entire thread, here are a couple of thoughts.

Some who I’d recommend we look at with each selection:
Pick 50:
Waylen Manson would be my choice if for whatever reason he slides regardless of whoever else is available. Is the most talented player in this year’s draft and the sky is the limit for the guy. He could develop into a better player than Jonathan Patton if he applies himself to his footy. Is someone who could easily fit into a forwardline along with Dawes/Cloke or Witts and whoever else we have in our forwardline as he showed playing alongside Fevola. Just marks everything that comes in his general direction because he has the big leap, long arms and ability to take it at the highest point consistently, so as another marking target up front he would add allot, looking at all those marks Geelong took down back over our forwardline in the grand final, with Manson in our forwardline we would be taking allot more of those inside 50 marks and be allot more dangerous when we enter the forward 50 with those high entries.
We have the resources to help Manson make the transition to the big city and adjust to the culture change. Playing footy and producing will be the easy part. If drafted would recommend Andrew Krakouer work closely with him and do everything in his power to make Manson fit in. Would also recommend Nathan Buckley as coach to form a strong bond with him, because if he can feel like a part of the Collingwood family and if our players can show him that they have his back, I’m confident he can develop into an out and out super star of the competition. As well as this Manson is really the only key forward option with the potential to develop, because after all the best key forwards just about always come from the 1st round, so getting Manson at 50, whether he works out or not is a gift because you just don’t get that much talent that late in any draft anymore, very rare a player of this quality slips through. Has allot of holes in his game: defensive side of his game nonexistent at this stage, doesn’t handball, is a goal first mentality forward, but personally very happy with the fit.
If Manson is not available which I suspect best available is the best approach. Some others I’d look at if available include: Sebastian Ross, Shane Kersten, Josh Waldhuter, Murray Newman, Thomas Sheridan, Jimmy Webster, Sam Kerridge, Lee Spurr Sam Frost, Michael Bussey, Tom Downie, Jordan Lockyer, Jackson Paine, Jackson Merrett, Jack Newnes and Kyal Horsley.

Pick 65:
Daniel Currie (Now that he has been delisted by Sydney he is one I very much want. Is the best option out there as an immediate replacement for L.Brown in that no.2 ruck role. As a ruckman is an upgrade and is that little bit taller but Currie also adds a fair bit around the ground and can sneak forward and take a big grab which is why I see him as a really good fit into our side and a significantly better no.2 ruck option to Cameron Wood. Fits our age profiling perfectly, is young enough to develop with the list but is also pretty ready to play which makes him the ideal addition. Quality at 65 being a fairly shallow draft will be limited and considering we have already added Elliot and Yagmoor during trade week we don’t need more young kids. In Currie we add a similar potential premiership player who could like Leigh Brown a couple of years back similarly be a bargain)

 

[TradeDraft]

Wanted to get some discussion going. Not allot of draft talk going on, so thought I'd bring up some names and update this old thread. *To save you all reading through the entire thread, here are a couple of thoughts.

Some who I’d recommend we look at with each selection:
Pick 50:
Waylen Manson would be my choice if for whatever reason he slides regardless of whoever else is available. Is the most talented player in this year’s draft and the sky is the limit for the guy. He could develop into a better player than Jonathan Patton if he applies himself to his footy. Is someone who could easily fit into a forwardline along with Dawes/Cloke or Witts and whoever else we have in our forwardline as he showed playing alongside Fevola. Just marks everything that comes in his general direction because he has the big leap, long arms and ability to take it at the highest point consistently, so as another marking target up front he would add allot, looking at all those marks Geelong took down back over our forwardline in the grand final, with Manson in our forwardline we would be taking allot more of those inside 50 marks and be allot more dangerous when we enter the forward 50 with those high entries.
We have the resources to help Manson make the transition to the big city and adjust to the culture change. Playing footy and producing will be the easy part. If drafted would recommend Andrew Krakouer work closely with him and do everything in his power to make Manson fit in. Would also recommend Nathan Buckley as coach to form a strong bond with him, because if he can feel like a part of the Collingwood family and if our players can show him that they have his back, I’m confident he can develop into an out and out super star of the competition. As well as this Manson is really the only key forward option with the potential to develop, because after all the best key forwards just about always come from the 1st round, so getting Manson at 50, whether he works out or not is a gift because you just don’t get that much talent that late in any draft anymore, very rare a player of this quality slips through. Has allot of holes in his game: defensive side of his game nonexistent at this stage, doesn’t handball, is a goal first mentality forward, but personally very happy with the fit.
If Manson is not available which I suspect best available is the best approach. Some others I’d look at if available include: Sebastian Ross, Shane Kersten, Josh Waldhuter, Murray Newman, Thomas Sheridan, Jimmy Webster, Sam Kerridge, Lee Spurr Sam Frost, Michael Bussey, Tom Downie, Jordan Lockyer, Jackson Paine, Jackson Merrett, Jack Newnes and Kyal Horsley.

Pick 65:
Daniel Currie (Now that he has been delisted by Sydney he is one I very much want. Is the best option out there as an immediate replacement for L.Brown in that no.2 ruck role. As a ruckman is an upgrade and is that little bit taller but Currie also adds a fair bit around the ground and can sneak forward and take a big grab which is why I see him as a really good fit into our side and a significantly better no.2 ruck option to Cameron Wood. Fits our age profiling perfectly, is young enough to develop with the list but is also pretty ready to play which makes him the ideal addition. Quality at 65 being a fairly shallow draft will be limited and considering we have already added Elliot and Yagmoor during trade week we don’t need more young kids. In Currie we add a similar potential premiership player who could like Leigh Brown a couple of years back similarly be a bargain)

I would be Very Happy if we ended up with Manson and Currie. They would both Fill a Need. Manson would be High Risk High Reward Pick,