Draft Watcher Knightmare's 2012 Mock Draft

[ROYAL EAGLE]

Wow looked at WCE picks Knightmare, and didn't agree with any of them.

Honestly thats the worst draft on BF i can remember seeing for WCE.

None of your picks fill a need or where the best talent available.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Wow looked at WCE picks Knightmare, and didn't agree with any of them.

Honestly thats the worst draft on BF i can remember seeing for WCE.

None of your picks fill a need or where the best talent available.

In your opinion....

Maybe in KM's opinion they are the best talent available?

Wait ... you're calling Garner and Hrovat a terrible draft with only reasonable picks?

 

[ROYAL EAGLE]

In your opinion....

Maybe in KM's opinion they are the best talent available?

Wait ... you're calling Garner and Hrovat a terrible draft with only reasonable picks?

Garner's a skinny half foward that can play the high half foward role.

We have plenty of his type's already and our foward line is our strength.

Plus if you have seen Freo's wasted picks on these skinny types languishing in the WAFL, you would have
a very different opinion of them.

He doesn't fill a need or was the best talent available when you see who the next pick is in KM's draft.

Our club has stated its after outside pace and large big body mids.

As for Hrovat we have too many under 180cm players on our list, and the best depth of
half back flankers in the league.

Our needs are quick outside types, large mids and defensive KPD.

KM is usually a lot more accurate, on WCE needs though, thats why I was so surprised when I saw his list.

 

[Chris25]

Plus if you have seen Freo's wasted picks on these skinny types languishing in the WAFL, you would have a very different opinion of them.

Now, hold on a minute.

Who are the 'skinny types languishing in the WAFL'? I'm guessing you're not talking about Fyfe or Hill. Can't imagine it's Sheridan or Crozier either, as they both debuted in their debut seasons and are looking very promising. Definitely wouldn't consider any of them to be wasted picks.

And while I haven't given up on Pitt yet, I'll let you have him for the sake of the argument. But that is just one pick.

 

[bombermick]

KM, do you see Hrovat slipping in this draft due to the trend towards bigger, stronger mids (O'Keefe, Mundy etc)?

 

[Knightmare]

I think Dawes and Wellingham and Collingwoods first round for pick 4 would be a good trade. Collingwood would pick up an elite player and lose 2 reasonably good players. MFC would players exposed to a great winning culture and take their chance with the late first round pick. The MFC list needs to rub shoulders with these type of players. If GC or MFC land Viney through F/S bidding this would effectively be pick 3 - irresistable to Collingwood.
I think that Wellingham will throw a spanner in the works on this one and the MFC may have to throw in pick 13.

I agree with your analysis of why the two Pies would help Melbourne and both are in that right age group to develop with your list.
I'd agree to a trade of Dawes + Wellingham for pick 4 from Collingwood's end but Wellingham has requested a trade to West Coast which sadly puts an end to these talks with now Dawes the sole player likely to be traded to Melbourne from Collingwood.

Wow looked at WCE picks Knightmare, and didn't agree with any of them.

Honestly thats the worst draft on BF i can remember seeing for WCE.

None of your picks fill a need or where the best talent available.

Garner's a skinny half foward that can play the high half foward role.

We have plenty of his type's already and our foward line is our strength.

Plus if you have seen Freo's wasted picks on these skinny types languishing in the WAFL, you would have
a very different opinion of them.

He doesn't fill a need or was the best talent available when you see who the next pick is in KM's draft.

Our club has stated its after outside pace and large big body mids.

As for Hrovat we have too many under 180cm players on our list, and the best depth of
half back flankers in the league.

Our needs are quick outside types, large mids and defensive KPD.

KM is usually a lot more accurate, on WCE needs though, thats why I was so surprised when I saw his list.

West Coast are an interesting team to draft for.

My feel for the list is that the rucks and KPPs group are probably the only complete group in the league - maybe one more key defender can be added at some point but it's not a priority with a very strong group at present.
The team is mostly lacking quality outside pace and pace in the forwardline along. Additionally while it probably doesn't happen this year a genuine A-grade mid in addition to that current midfield group would also make West Coast plenty better.

I felt the selections were mostly good fits but everyone will see it different.

Garner is a very effective midfielder and I probably undersell him some in my player comparison but he is more a mid and is looks better than Koby Stevens/Tom Swift and could quicker than many expect become a guy who can rotate off a forward flank and into the midfielder and later on become a full time mid. I wouldn't describe him as a skinny type and I suspect he has put on weight since.

Hrovat was probably the best player in the TAC Cup this year and is as immediate as any in the draft and is a guy who can help you win now. Has a very strong body and can play round 1 if you want him to through the midfield also and with Stevens likely on the move looks a logical replacement.

Then the rest of the selections fill the pace needs. Coleman-Broome can play anywhere and is exactly what you are requesting with regard to pace. Add to that Shannon Taylor who is probably the quickest small forward in the draft and I strongly disagree that about these not being needs based selections. Then Myke Cook as a mature age outside mid also has some pace and skill so it's hardly a bad draft.

I shuffle my draft positions regularly enough but so as the draft comes nearer and trade week happens my selections for West Coast will no doubt change but personally I don't mind this group and I see value in a number of these selections.

KM, do you see Hrovat slipping in this draft due to the trend towards bigger, stronger mids (O'Keefe, Mundy etc)?

With Hrovat it's more being that small type because to some extent he lacks pace I can see him sliding. He is very much a mid of the Jarryd Blair variety and with his strength over the ball I can see him making the grade and presenting some value as a mid draft option.

 

[Knightmare]

The wild cards at the top of the draft are firstly Jack Viney and secondly the minidraft picks.

Both of those sets of decisions will heavily affect the top ten (as will GWS deciding whether or not to just Pay. The. Man with Jonathon Giles).

Have to agree.

It's increasingly sounding like both GWS and Gold Coast will bid on Viney forcing Melbourne to use pick 3 if they want Jack.

Any number of clubs will be in on the minidraft so it will be interesting to see how that works out. My early tip is the Western Bulldogs with pick 6 make a play at Hogan and Melbourne at 4 make a play for Jack Martin to add that pace to the midfield.

Giles it's very unclear as to what will happen. It's strange GWS aren't making him a priority signing. I can still only assume he signs on, but if not Adelaide will go hard with Tippett likely on the move.

 

[Patron]

Absolutely love your work knightmare but i would have to agree with RE in regards to the picks not really fitting our needs atm.
But fair enough our biggest need is a large bodied A grade clearance mid. And these aren't readily available at the picks we have and players often grow into this role.
As you mentioned our KPP is pretty set (slight lack of depth for KPD) but our rucks while amazing do run out pretty fast so i wouldn't be surprised if we look for depth in the next draft or two. Pity there doesn't seem to be many too many options here this year. Any late-rookie rucks you've been keeping an eye on for the next year or two?

 

[Knightmare]

Absolutely love your work knightmare but i would have to agree with RE in regards to the picks not really fitting our needs atm.
But fair enough our biggest need is a large bodied A grade clearance mid. And these aren't readily available at the picks we have and players often grow into this role.
As you mentioned our KPP is pretty set (slight lack of depth for KPD) but our rucks while amazing do run out pretty fast so i wouldn't be surprised if we look for depth in the next draft or two. Pity there doesn't seem to be many too many options here this year. Any late-rookie rucks you've been keeping an eye on for the next year or two?

As the big bodied mids in the 1st round look out for Lonergan, Vlastuin, Stringer and Membrey.

It depends on peoples outlooks of Hrovat but on immediate game as a big bodied - while slightly shorter mid I'd even have him slightly ahead of this 1st round group so my feeling was this would suffice and in the 2nd round represent strong value and satisfy the need to some extent.

The order will be somewhat different next update and I'll make sure I slot in one of this big four into that first round selection and maybe move a Sumner into that 2nd round selection as that extra player with outside pace.

As a ruckman late/rookie Cameron Symonds this year looks the pick of the bunch and could be a reasonable project type to have developing.

For next year possibly Scott Jones (WA) could be worth a look but too early to say where he lands.

 

[Patron]

As the big bodied mids in the 1st round look out for Lonergan, Vlastuin, Stringer and Membrey.

It depends on peoples outlooks of Hrovat but on immediate game as a big bodied - while slightly shorter mid I'd even have him slightly ahead of this 1st round group so my feeling was this would suffice and in the 2nd round represent strong value and satisfy the need to some extent.

The order will be somewhat different next update and I'll make sure I slot in one of this big four into that first round selection and maybe move a Sumner into that 2nd round selection as that extra player with outside pace.

As a ruckman late/rookie Cameron Symonds this year looks the pick of the bunch and could be a reasonable project type to have developing.

For next year possibly Scott Jones (WA) could be worth a look but too early to say where he lands.

Cheers, will have a close look at those two.
I woud be very happy with Vlastuin or stringer if they were to last to 17/18. Chances we might not even have this pick any more as early as monday.

 

[IanW]

our rucks while amazing do run out pretty fast so i wouldn't be surprised if we look for depth in the next draft or two. Pity there doesn't seem to be many too many options here this year. Any late-rookie rucks you've been keeping an eye on for the next year or two?

I'd personally be looking at just about all the American basketballers who went through the LA draft camp. Six six, 360 vision, can jump, doesnt count on the salary cap or the list size. What isnt there to like there about a development project ?

 

[Tazwegian]

I'd personally be looking at just about all the American basketballers who went through the LA draft camp. Six six, 360 vision, can jump, doesnt count on the salary cap or the list size. What isnt there to like there about a development project ?

They can't play football, therefore very likely just a waste of money. Their athletic ability has barely even been as impressive as has been made out. Considering they were selected for their power attributes, like sprinting, jumping, and agility, and that they at least four years older than the draft age kids, they haven't tested all that well. Only Wallace has really shown anything, and he looks as though he needs to lose a fair bit of weight. Not sure what he got on the beep test though, but he might be worth a spot. Really small chance that they will develop into good players though. I am interested in it as an experiment, but not optimistic about its outcome.

 

[george2]

Now, hold on a minute.

Who are the 'skinny types languishing in the WAFL'? I'm guessing you're not talking about Fyfe or Hill. Can't imagine it's Sheridan or Crozier either, as they both debuted in their debut seasons and are looking very promising. Definitely wouldn't consider any of them to be wasted picks.

And while I haven't given up on Pitt yet, I'll let you have him for the sake of the argument. But that is just one pick.

Lets not forget Brad Sheppard, Tom Swift oh wait a second.......... thats right they were taken by the Eagles with earlier picks my bad

 

[Richo83]

With the acquisition of Knights and Chaplin, Richmond seems to be fixed for KPDs and half forward flankers/small forward types.

So that leaves midfielders, ruckmen and KPFs. Does this change your views on Richmond's drafting?

 

[manny100]

Have to agree.

It's increasingly sounding like both GWS and Gold Coast will bid on Viney forcing Melbourne to use pick 3 if they want Jack.

Any number of clubs will be in on the minidraft so it will be interesting to see how that works out. My early tip is the Western Bulldogs with pick 6 make a play at Hogan and Melbourne at 4 make a play for Jack Martin to add that pace to the midfield.

Giles it's very unclear as to what will happen. It's strange GWS aren't making him a priority signing. I can still only assume he signs on, but if not Adelaide will go hard with Tippett likely on the move.

Hi KM, will be interesting to see how it pans out with JV bids. Clayton on AFL wesite yesterday said he was a 2 - 6 and 7 pick. Obviously playing his cards close to his chest.
Probably a bit like the 2001 draft. Viney a little similar to Ball who was is a very good player and leader but you probably would rather have Judd - in hindsight. Viney will be a very good player and leader but they need to consider would Whitfield, Gundy or Toumpas be a Hodge or Judd in comparison?
Viney will be a very safe pick. He will be very good even though the trend is for taller bigger bodied mids and players who are adaptable ie, can play a variety of positions.
Clayton also said that he will do what is best for GC.
I think GC and GWS will have to rate him a clear 1 or 2 to give up a draft pick so early in the draft period. If they bid then the MFC get a bargain at 3.

 

[Richo83]

Not convinced that IF either expansion clubs can force the demons to use pick 3 on Viney, they wont force them to. They have no reason to, and I see Viney going top five.

 

[The_Answer3]

The Demons WILL select Viney, whether that be at 3 or 26.

 

[Lyyynnnchy]

Hey Knightmare, bit surprised at Garlett not placing in the top 10 for any of the sprints or agility tests. Would you have expected him to?

Will this see him slide down the rankings?

 

[bombermick]

They can't play football, therefore very likely just a waste of money. Their athletic ability has barely even been as impressive as has been made out. Considering they were selected for their power attributes, like sprinting, jumping, and agility, and that they at least four years older than the draft age kids, they haven't tested all that well. Only Wallace has really shown anything, and he looks as though he needs to lose a fair bit of weight. Not sure what he got on the beep test though, but he might be worth a spot. Really small chance that they will develop into good players though. I am interested in it as an experiment, but not optimistic about its outcome.

It's a risk, but Pyke couldn't play football either before last year.

Wallace is worth the very small risk, as a ruck or a key defender.

 

[Tazwegian]

It's a risk, but Pyke couldn't play football either before last year.

Wallace is worth the very small risk, as a ruck or a key defender.

True, but he's still not all that great. And for every Pyke, there is five guys who don't make it.

 

[Nickos66]

The Demons WILL select Viney, whether that be at 3 or 26.

That's some Nostradamus shit right there.

 

[The_Answer3]

It's how I do. Stay tuned as I predict Whitfield to go #1

 

[Knightmare]

I'd personally be looking at just about all the American basketballers who went through the LA draft camp. Six six, 360 vision, can jump, doesnt count on the salary cap or the list size. What isnt there to like there about a development project ?

The query at that age with many of these prospects is will they have time?

Shae McNamara as a 204cm athletic b-ball/ multi sport American demonstrated no, while Mike Pyke while a low level AFL talent has demonstrated yes if a low level role player is ok.

There aren't 18 year olds and are in their 20s.

I suspect a couple of these could find themselves on AFL rookie lists but whether they make it will be interesting to watch and you'd want them to have very high level development coaches to help them learn the game quickly and fast-track their growth enough.

With the acquisition of Knights and Chaplin, Richmond seems to be fixed for KPDs and half forward flankers/small forward types.

So that leaves midfielders, ruckmen and KPFs. Does this change your views on Richmond's drafting?

Certainly after trade week I'll do a fairly large overhaul of the selections once I know how the dynamics of all lists have changed.

With Richmond I still see further depth in the midfield the primary priority along with a high level quick crumbing forward, a second high level key forward and another general defender to help stabilise that back half.
A ruck prospect through the rookie draft might also be a good option in Richmond's situation.

Hi KM, will be interesting to see how it pans out with JV bids. Clayton on AFL wesite yesterday said he was a 2 - 6 and 7 pick. Obviously playing his cards close to his chest.
Probably a bit like the 2001 draft. Viney a little similar to Ball who was is a very good player and leader but you probably would rather have Judd - in hindsight. Viney will be a very good player and leader but they need to consider would Whitfield, Gundy or Toumpas be a Hodge or Judd in comparison?
Viney will be a very safe pick. He will be very good even though the trend is for taller bigger bodied mids and players who are adaptable ie, can play a variety of positions.
Clayton also said that he will do what is best for GC.
I think GC and GWS will have to rate him a clear 1 or 2 to give up a draft pick so early in the draft period. If they bid then the MFC get a bargain at 3.

It will be interesting to see how it happens. With that top end so even it is a difficult call.

I'd just judge players on their own merits and forget player comparisons. It just comes down to whether you evaluate Viney the better talent v Whitfield/Grundy/Toumpas as to whether you select him first.

Hey Knightmare, bit surprised at Garlett not placing in the top 10 for any of the sprints or agility tests. Would you have expected him to?

Will this see him slide down the rankings?

I see what you did there.

With Garlett it is entirely possible that he lasts late into the first round so even without the testing it could be a possibility with some personality questions.

On the testing though I'm not really fussed how players test - it more explains why players play in particular ways or have particular strengths/weaknesses. But in the testing I expected Garlett to be more top 10-20 in the speed + agility testing with others probably quicker: S.Taylor/L.Wilkins/Sumner/Kennedy/Osborne/Towers/Haynes/Saad/Barry/Stokes among others who are all incredibly quick.

 

[Richo83]

Certainly after trade week I'll do a fairly large overhaul of the selections once I know how the dynamics of all lists have changed.

With Richmond I still see further depth in the midfield the primary priority along with a high level quick crumbing forward, a second high level key forward and another general defender to help stabilise that back half.
A ruck prospect through the rookie draft might also be a good option in Richmond's situation.

I'm just curious whether, with Knights, Nahas, Martin, Edwards and King on the books, that a small forward is majorly important. When you say general defender, what do you mean? And who would that kind of player be?

 

[Knightmare]

I'm just curious whether, with Knights, Nahas, Martin, Edwards and King on the books, that a small forward is majorly important. When you say general defender, what do you mean? And who would that kind of player be?

Edwards has played very well as a small forward this year. It's not top priority to add another and probably something that can be addressed through the rookie draft with the high success rate there is with those small forwards coming from the rookie draft.

General defender is my way of saying a defender who isn't key position size. So small or medium. Just a guy who can fit into the existing structure without specifically saying exactly what type of defender it needs to be.