Draft Watcher Knightmare's 2014 Phantom Draft

[Punts]

Will Logan Austin get picked up , from limited vision he looks worth the risk ?

Anyone have much info on him ? cheers

 

[Knightmare]

Will Logan Austin get picked up , from limited vision he looks worth the risk ?

Anyone have much info on him ? cheers

I've been interested in what I have seen of Austin. Overager and part of the GWS Academy. He made the switch to key defence this year and has looked good both through the u18 champs and through about half the season he has played for GWS. Overall he's a pretty good athlete. Capable rebounder as someone who reads the flight well and can take some intercept marks. Efficient user of the footy.

If Sydney can have him as a rookie as a developing project player he is one worth taking a shot on.

 

[womble54]

Curious to hear the justification for Jon Marsh over Eli Templeton and Ben Brown. The prison bars are blinding you KM methinks???

 

[Punts]

I've been interested in what I have seen of Austin. Overager and part of the GWS Academy. He made the switch to key defence this year and has looked good both through the u18 champs and through about half the season he has played for GWS. Overall he's a pretty good athlete. Capable rebounder as someone who reads the flight well and can take some intercept marks. Efficient user of the footy.

If Sydney can have him as a rookie as a developing project player he is one worth taking a shot on.

What do you think his chances are of getting picked up in the National Draft ?.

We really need some KPP depth but our first pick is 37 and would probably to much for him.

I still think we will take the best available player at that pick weather it be a mid etc but if we are set on a tall who would be around at that pick mate ? Keitel , McDonald Ramsey , Creeper etc and are they much better than Austin in your opinion , as we could rookie Austin if available and just go the best at pick 37?

Would a decent mid/small forward slip to that pick , Lonie etc

Cheers again

 

[x_les_x]

Update tonight KM? It's alright if your still jam packed with work no rush

 

[Prochard123]

But Broomhead has gone from 27th best player in his own draft to top 30 in 5 drafts due to VFL form according to Knightmare.

It's inevitable for a supporter to be biased to some extent, even for a fantastic member like knightmare. You need to stop being rude and respect that this is HIS spread and we are all here because we respect HIS opinions, one thing we know for sure is that everyone here but you will consider his posts more valuable than yours. If you don't like his opinions, then why do you visit a thread entitled to him? Go rant about your duds being underrated elsewhere.

On a different note, I think broomhead was one of the only shining light last season. Late in the season, he was at least a top 3 player for us behind pendlebury and beams despite only being 20, and it could be argued that he was even more damaging than beams. If I had to rate a top 10 list for collingwood by value, it would be:
1. Pendlebury
2. Cloke
3. Grundy
4. Sidebottom
5. Broomhead
6. Witts
7. Moore
8. Elliot
9. Reid
10. Sharenberg
I don't understand why players like Patton, shiel, lycett, gleeson, Tomlinson , Blakey, Williams, Brayshaw and petrecca are rated at where they are but I don't let these thoughts and make myself look like a fool

 

[Knightmare]

Curious to hear the justification for Jon Marsh over Eli Templeton and Ben Brown. The prison bars are blinding you KM methinks???

Marsh over the first half of the season in the front half was poor and very inconsistent in the front half, but over the second half of the season since shifting back has been excellent. He hasn't taken on the game as much as I'd like but in a shutdown key defence role in the back half has been terrific and the equivalent of Jack Frost in the VFL team. He's quite possibly ready to play next season if the opportunity is there which for a key defender isn't common and even less common for someone relatively new to competitive footy.

Ben Brown I like and his finals series was terrific, I was watching and as a long time fan from way back when it was gratifying to see my guy perform well at AFL level, but he is more a possible component to a front half than a dominant forward as a leading only forward and as a mature ager while I see him continuing to improve, his ceiling isn't so high that I see him as being among last years best.

Templeton showed good signs early on before injury but wasn't dominant. Still just his first year so as with everyone from last years draft it's all still up in the air. But I see his upside as relatively limited as someone who was so advanced as a 15/16 year old but has made limited progress since, suggesting less scope to improve than others.

What do you think his chances are of getting picked up in the National Draft ?.

We really need some KPP depth but our first pick is 37 and would probably to much for him.

I still think we will take the best available player at that pick weather it be a mid etc but if we are set on a tall who would be around at that pick mate ? Keitel , McDonald Ramsey , Creeper etc and are they much better than Austin in your opinion , as we could rookie Austin if available and just go the best at pick 37?

Would a decent mid/small forward slip to that pick , Lonie etc

Cheers again

Austin is more likely a rookie pick and should be available as a rookie unless a team falls in love with his game. If available there he's a good guy to take as a developing player.

McDonald I prefer to Austin. Keitel as a key defender is probably more advanced now but I have Austin in a similar conversation and possibly eventually the better of the two despite being an overager. I favour Austin to Ramsey and Creeper. But not everyone will be as high Austin as I am so most probably favour Keitel, McDonald and Ramsey to Austin.

At 37 I'd go a key defender if there is one I like there, if not I'd take one in the rookie draft - Austin/Hartley/Beasley are all solid picks. Hartley is the more immediate option, Beasley also is fairly immediate but like Jordan Lockyer perhaps slightly too short as a key defender at AFL level as well performed as he is, then Austin is more a project guy.

Good small forwards can often be had in the rookie draft so I'd be on the lookout there.

Update tonight KM? It's alright if your still jam packed with work no rush

I'm mid way through my 50th draft profile. I then plan to go through my profiles and make some tweaks and will post after that time. No date at this time and it depends how thoroughly I plan to go through my profiles again, if I rush through tweaks then tomorrow night might be the earliest possible date I'll have an update up.

 

[Knightmare]

It's inevitable for a supporter to be biased to some extent, even for a fantastic member like knightmare. You need to stop being rude and respect that this is HIS spread and we are all here because we respect HIS opinions, one thing we know for sure is that everyone here but you will consider his posts more valuable than yours. If you don't like his opinions, then why do you visit a thread entitled to him? Go rant about your duds being underrated elsewhere.

On a different note, I think broomhead was one of the only shining light last season. Late in the season, he was at least a top 3 player for us behind pendlebury and beams despite only being 20, and it could be argued that he was even more damaging than beams. If I had to rate a top 10 list for collingwood by value, it would be:
1. Pendlebury
2. Cloke
3. Grundy
4. Sidebottom
5. Broomhead
6. Witts
7. Moore
8. Elliot
9. Reid
10. Sharenberg
I don't understand why players like Patton, shiel, lycett, gleeson, Tomlinson , Blakey, Williams, Brayshaw and petrecca are rated at where they are but I don't let these thoughts and make myself look like a fool

It's just the reality of the Collingwood list that unless you're a Collingwood fan people won't entirely get. There is excellent young talent, a small number of stars then few mid or late career guys who are anything more than role players.

If I had to list my player position rankings in terms of who I would pick to play today this is what I'd go with..

1. Pendlebury
2. Cloke
3. Sidebottom
4. Swan
5. Elliott (2011)
6. Broomhead (2012)
7. Reid
8. Williams (2012)
9. Langdon (2013)
10. Toovey
11. Scharenberg (2013) - if he was healthy this is where he would rate on the Collingwood list anyway right from game one.
12. Frost (2012)
13. Keeffe
14. Seedsman (2010)
15. Young
16. Fasolo (2010)
17. Witts (2011)
18. Grundy (2012)
19. Adams (2011)
20. Kennedy (2012)
21. Freeman (2013)
22. Brown
23. Moore (2014)
24. Marsh (2013)
25. Karnezis (2010)

Basically the Collingwood list or those I'd be picking to play are the young guys. Other than the small number of star players Collingwood is a bunch of first five year players and a small few role players.

Collingwood is basically as currently constructed is while a harsh comment only useful as a development academy, just a development academy who insist on playing ordinary mid/late career guys in the seniors over the lists youth who are already the better footballers. Whether Collingwood play the youth or the older, more seasoned veterans, the outcome next season will almost certainly be the same. My expectation is a 12th placed finish.

 

[Lana]

*I'll leave out prelisted/zone/other guys who weren't available to pick on draft day of those years which is different to how I normally do it but hey, I'll go that way today. I've also gone to 25 to make it a little more interesting and top 40 for 2013 as being more recent that will be of more interest to many.

2010:
1. Tom Lynch
2. Dyson Heppell
3. Luke Parker
4. Tom Liberatore
5. Brodie Smith
6. Harley Bennell
7. Dion Prestia
8. David Swallow
9. Scott Lycett
10. Luke Dahlhaus
11. Will Langford
12. Josh Jenkins
13. Isaac Smith
14. Jared Polec
15. Jack Darling
16. Josh Caddy
17. George Horlin-Smith
18. Andrew Gaff
19. Michael Hibberd
20. Tom McDonald
21. Bachar Houli
22. Paul Seedsman
23. Aaron Mullett
24. Alex Fasolo
25. Paul Puopolo

While I can't comment too much on the ranking, you wouldn't find many Geelong supporters who would rate Horlin-Smith over Guthrie, in current or future output. Horlin-Smith has very poor athleticism, when fully developed he will be like Brock Mclean when he finally became a regular at Carlton. Was Guthrie's absence an oversight or do you not rate him?

 

[Knightmare]

While I can't comment too much on the ranking, you wouldn't find many Geelong supporters who would rate Horlin-Smith over Guthrie, in current or future output. Horlin-Smith has very poor athleticism, when fully developed he will be like Brock Mclean when he finally became a regular at Carlton. Was Guthrie's absence an oversight or do you not rate him?

Guthrie was an oversight. Afterall I did put it together in a hurry.

 

[Dundalis]

Curious why you have Darcy Moore rated in that best on list section, when you have been consistently skeptical of him due to limited playing time and lack of real dominance in many of the games he has played?

 

[Cringle]

It's inevitable for a supporter to be biased to some extent, even for a fantastic member like knightmare. You need to stop being rude and respect that this is HIS spread and we are all here because we respect HIS opinions, one thing we know for sure is that everyone here but you will consider his posts more valuable than yours. If you don't like his opinions, then why do you visit a thread entitled to him? Go rant about your duds being underrated elsewhere.

On a different note, I think broomhead was one of the only shining light last season. Late in the season, he was at least a top 3 player for us behind pendlebury and beams despite only being 20, and it could be argued that he was even more damaging than beams. If I had to rate a top 10 list for collingwood by value, it would be:
1. Pendlebury
2. Cloke
3. Grundy
4. Sidebottom
5. Broomhead
6. Witts
7. Moore
8. Elliot
9. Reid
10. Sharenberg
I don't understand why players like Patton, shiel, lycett, gleeson, Tomlinson , Blakey, Williams, Brayshaw and petrecca are rated at where they are but I don't let these thoughts and make myself look like a fool

You're actually a hero.

I enjoy this thread, just as much as I enjoy other phantom draft threads. They provide great overviews of players coming into the season next year. However you can't say you're being bias then say your opinion is valid. Pretty much contradicts itself.

I'll also continue to read this thread as I enjoy Knightmares insight on the upcoming draft pool as that's the thread it is. I'm not going to stop reading it because Collingwood supporters rate half there players better then any of Carltons.

 

[Prochard123]

Curious why you have Darcy Moore rated in that best on list section, when you have been consistently skeptical of him due to limited playing time and lack of real dominance in many of the games he has played?

At 23, it's fair, if someone like Moore are in top 20 in terms of selection order in his first year, then that club is in serious trouble

 

[SugarCoat]

Its Knigtmare's thread, if you dont like it don't read it.
I for one value his opinions and I can't believe all the work he puts into it.

If you are so critical of Knightmare TerryWallet - start your own phantom draft.

 

[Prochard123]

You're actually a hero.

I enjoy this thread, just as much as I enjoy other phantom draft threads. They provide great overviews of players coming into the season next year. However you can't say you're being bias then say your opinion is valid. Pretty much contradicts itself.

I'll also continue to read this thread as I enjoy Knightmares insight on the upcoming draft pool as that's the thread it is. I'm not going to stop reading it because Collingwood supporters rate half there players better then any of Carltons.

What are you even talking about? This is knightmares thread, why would you visit it if you don't acknowledge his opinions? Everyone is biased, even the afl recruiters, what's wrong with that? There's no such thing as an invalid opinion, there is no contradiction here. On that note, you clearly don't enjoy knightmares insight considering you got easily offended by the statement that Carlton has next to zero up and coming talent.
For the second part, I'm pretty sure no one including knightmare has suggested that. Knightmare is only saying that we have a far superior cohort of YOUNG players compared to Carlton, and considering the difference in the access of first rounders and the established players we have sacrificed for these pick, it's fair enough.

If you want to argue, you have to stop coming up with junk that never happened.

 

[Punts]

Marsh over the first half of the season in the front half was poor and very inconsistent in the front half, but over the second half of the season since shifting back has been excellent. He hasn't taken on the game as much as I'd like but in a shutdown key defence role in the back half has been terrific and the equivalent of Jack Frost in the VFL team. He's quite possibly ready to play next season if the opportunity is there which for a key defender isn't common and even less common for someone relatively new to competitive footy.

Ben Brown I like and his finals series was terrific, I was watching and as a long time fan from way back when it was gratifying to see my guy perform well at AFL level, but he is more a possible component to a front half than a dominant forward as a leading only forward and as a mature ager while I see him continuing to improve, his ceiling isn't so high that I see him as being among last years best.

Templeton showed good signs early on before injury but wasn't dominant. Still just his first year so as with everyone from last years draft it's all still up in the air. But I see his upside as relatively limited as someone who was so advanced as a 15/16 year old but has made limited progress since, suggesting less scope to improve than others.



Austin is more likely a rookie pick and should be available as a rookie unless a team falls in love with his game. If available there he's a good guy to take as a developing player.

McDonald I prefer to Austin. Keitel as a key defender is probably more advanced now but I have Austin in a similar conversation and possibly eventually the better of the two despite being an overager. I favour Austin to Ramsey and Creeper. But not everyone will be as high Austin as I am so most probably favour Keitel, McDonald and Ramsey to Austin.

At 37 I'd go a key defender if there is one I like there, if not I'd take one in the rookie draft - Austin/Hartley/Beasley are all solid picks. Hartley is the more immediate option, Beasley also is fairly immediate but like Jordan Lockyer perhaps slightly too short as a key defender at AFL level as well performed as he is, then Austin is more a project guy.

Good small forwards can often be had in the rookie draft so I'd be on the lookout there.



I'm mid way through my 50th draft profile. I then plan to go through my profiles and make some tweaks and will post after that time. No date at this time and it depends how thoroughly I plan to go through my profiles again, if I rush through tweaks then tomorrow night might be the earliest possible date I'll have an update up.

Cheers for that mate

 

[Knightmare]

Curious why you have Darcy Moore rated in that best on list section, when you have been consistently skeptical of him due to limited playing time and lack of real dominance in many of the games he has played?

Moore the defender isn't all that useful, he's around about where Brown would have been at, at the same stage as a key defender.

Moore the forward I like. If Reid misses games he's in my best team and depending on tall/small balance I'd be considering him at the selection table. With key forwards you want to get games into them as early and frequently as possible. Not that he is going to dominate. He likely in season one would only kick a goal a game, but with Cloke needing more forward 50 marking targets who can take the pressure off him, I'm all for Moore also in there. He's a good ground level guy and athletic so he doesn't necessarily make the team too tall even if used at times as a 3rd tall forward. Get those games into him and the rewards for his development will be big, as he's mentally strong enough not to lose confidence with the opportunity.

Everyone outside that list that comes to mind I'm seeing as less talented role players who ideally other than depth I wouldn't be playing.

Greenwood and Varcoe would be further guys I'd fit into the best 22 as 16-22 guys shifting some of those bigs back a list position.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Note: Pull on a black and white guernsey and you sky rocket up the rankings by a minimum of 10 spots.

Mate you're just going to have to deal with the fact that everybody except Carlton supporters thinks that your youth is crap. Now everybody else might be wrong and a few select Carlton supporters might be right, but I doubt it. Just deal with it and get over it.

 

[Cringle]

Mate you're just going to have to deal with the fact that everybody except Carlton supporters thinks that your youth is crap. Now everybody else might be wrong and a few select Carlton supporters might be right, but I doubt it. Just deal with it and get over it.

Honestly.. I think I'll go with the guy whose won 3 premierships over the Bigfooty crew who no secret hate Carlton. But I mean if we want to continuing playing experts?

I guess Carlton should've tried harder to trade Menzel for Witts. Only then would we have a top 30 player from the past 5 drafts.

 

[SugarCoat]

Mate you're just going to have to deal with the fact that everybody except Carlton supporters thinks that your youth is crap

It's disappointing form from Cringle & TerryWallet
If you asked most neutrals they would conclude Carlton has the worst depth of quality youth in the AFL.
Now they are throwing the toys out of the cot.

 

[Harvey Manfrenjensenden]

Is Wayland Manson any chance to be picked up?

 

[Rockford]

Honestly.. I think I'll go with the guy whose won 3 premierships over the Bigfooty crew who no secret hate Carlton. But I mean if we want to continuing playing experts?

I guess Carlton should've tried harder to trade Menzel for Witts. Only then would we have a top 30 player from the past 5 drafts.

Seriously, take it somewhere else. We get it, you rate Carlton's youth. You're ****ing annoying. Every time I get an update I think I'll be reading about the draft but instead I get your prattle on how good you think your kids are.

 

[Shuperman]

Hey KM, Thank you for all this work you're doing on this thread but how come there's no love for Dom Sheed? Surely he's shown enough and will show even more when he has a full pre-season?

 

[Knightmare]

Is Wayland Manson any chance to be picked up?

Highly unlikely that Waylen is selected.

Hey KM, Thank you for all this work you're doing on this thread but how come there's no love for Dom Sheed? Surely he's shown enough and will show even more when he has a full pre-season?

Apologies for missing him. That's what happens when quickly going through the names. Sheed would be around 25 on last years draft board.

 

[fronkalicious]

1. Km's work is awesome. That's why we're all here. He gives his time to answer questions from people like me who don't devote Saturday's to watching 16 and 17 year old kids play aussie rules, and for that I'm very grateful.

2. Shocked by his opinions on some pies players, but they're just opinions and we're all entitled to them. Agree or not, I respect them and enjoy reading them.

3. Retrospective draft analysis deserves its own thread and has derailed this one, for which I'm more than partly responsible, so apologies and let's move on with the 2014 draft chat.