Kobe or Lebron

[Primetime Pricey]

How old are you?

LeBron is good. But he is no MJ. Even if Miami win the current Finals series, you ever think Jordan would let that happen to his team in a pivotal Game three with the series tied at a 1-1. No Jordan would have scored 50 and willed his team over the line.

Also where you getting this greatest PER of all time stat?

Jordan leads that im afraid.

Jordan is number 1 all time career in PER at 27.91 to LeBron, second all time at 27.65. LeBron's career will go backwards where he gets old and his numbers and efficiency drop. LeBron might get by Jordan but he will age and he might go him and then go backwards again and drop below him by the time he retires.

Side note also, LeBron's best single season PER still doesnt beat Jordan's best single season PER either. The top 10 individual PER season and Jordan has 4 of the top ten compared to Wilt and LeBron having 3 each.

So yeah... generally owned.

Im in my 30's. I got to see Jordan in his prime, i was over in the states when they beat the Suns in the Finals.
LeBron at some stage this season had the greatest PER of all time as i remember ESPN making a big deal about it. As a all round player LeBron has more then Jordan but the one thing he doesnt have is the killer instinct. We have never seen a player like LeBron, he is a freak.
Im objective when it comes to this, im not a Jordan dick rider like most are. Look at what he did in Cleveland. Took the worst side in the NBA to the finals and had them always up for contention with no help and then he leaves and they dont even win 20 games lol.
Jordan leaves the Bulls the 1st time, the Bulls lose 2 less games and made it to the Conf Finals where they were robbed on a bad call against my Knicks.
Jordan is the greatest without a doubt but there is no doubt by careers end LeBron could be.

 

[jod23]

Im in my 30's. I got to see Jordan in his prime, i was over in the states when they beat the Suns in the Finals.
LeBron at some stage this season had the greatest PER of all time as i remember ESPN making a big deal about it. As a all round player LeBron has more then Jordan but the one thing he doesnt have is the killer instinct. We have never seen a player like LeBron, he is a freak.
Im objective when it comes to this, im not a Jordan dick rider like most are. Look at what he did in Cleveland. Took the worst side in the NBA to the finals and had them always up for contention with no help and then he leaves and they dont even win 20 games lol.
Jordan leaves the Bulls the 1st time, the Bulls lose 2 less games and made it to the Conf Finals where they were robbed on a bad call against my Knicks.
Jordan is the greatest without a doubt but there is no doubt by careers end LeBron could be.

But you sum it up yourself? As for greatest PER of all time, then you're wrong. Basketball Reference which is king for NBA stats says Jordan in number one.

As for Jordan, he took the worst team and made them a contender year after year against a horribly tough East with great team back then in Cleveland, Detroit and Boston. When Pippen matured, they got over the hump.

But you first say LeBron is the greatest player you have ever seen yet he has no killer instinct. That is an oxymoron as if you are to be a great player, you need that in your locker. LeBron to be fair was pathetic in game 3 of the NBA Finals. 15 measly points? Jordan and the word pathetic never went together, certainly never in the NBA Finals.

You say we have never seen a player like LeBron. He has physical gifts which make him a beast. Does that mean he is something new that we havent seen before? Perhaps, but name me one player you have seen that is like Jordan?

Name me a player you have ever seen play the game that can do everything Jordan can do. LeBron doesnt get close. For one, straight up and this might bother LBJ fans, LeBron is not a great scorer. Jordan's offensive game takes a huge steaming shit on LeBrons.

LBJ's best scoring season was 31.4ppg. He only averaged more than 30ppg two times in his career and the second time was bang on 30.0. He has one scoring title. Jordan has 9 scoring titles and averaged over 30ppg in a season 8 times.

LeBron's post game is average to say the least, he is a patchy 3pt shooter, he can of course get to rim at will and score. But newflash so could Jordan. Jordan was also probably on par as a 3pt shooter with LeBron and had the greatest post game the game has ever seen with pretty much an undefendable shot that he could get at any time in any game he wanted. His fadeaway jumper out of the low block was like Kareem's skyhook. You cant defend it, you just have to hope he misses.

LeBron is a great defender as well. Jordan is the greatest small defender the game has ever seen. He won a DPOTY. LBJ despite his height advantage and muscle advantage on MJ has the exact same career bpg average at 0.8pg. But Jordan's single season averages at his best far outweigh LBJ's. In 87/88 Jordan averaged 1.6bpg, that is a respectable average for a 7 foot center. The same year Jordan averaged 35ppg and 3.2spg to lead the league in scoring and steals. Jordan has led the league in steals 3 times. LeBron has never led the league in steal and has managed to average over 2spg just once in his 11 year career. Jordan averaged over 2spg 10 times in his career.

So yes, LeBron is a new breed of player. Bigger and stronger and more athletic, although the last bit is debatable. I think Jordan could jump higher, hang longer and do far more athletically than LeBron can do. But I have also covered how Jordan is far superior defensively and far superior offensively.

All that and we still havent gotten to the mental side of things where it isnt even a fair fight. LeBron is a small boy in his mind. Jordan was a god.

Your statements are silly. Jordan is the GOAT. LeBron is just the best player in the world right now.

 

[Primetime Pricey]

But you sum it up yourself? As for greatest PER of all time, then you're wrong. Basketball Reference which is king for NBA stats says Jordan in number one.

As for Jordan, he took the worst team and made them a contender year after year against a horribly tough East with great team back then in Cleveland, Detroit and Boston. When Pippen matured, they got over the hump.

But you first say LeBron is the greatest player you have ever seen yet he has no killer instinct. That is an oxymoron as if you are to be a great player, you need that in your locker. LeBron to be fair was pathetic in game 3 of the NBA Finals. 15 measly points? Jordan and the word pathetic never went together, certainly never in the NBA Finals.

You say we have never seen a player like LeBron. He has physical gifts which make him a beast. Does that mean he is something new that we havent seen before? Perhaps, but name me one player you have seen that is like Jordan?

Name me a player you have ever seen play the game that can do everything Jordan can do. LeBron doesnt get close. For one, straight up and this might bother LBJ fans, LeBron is not a great scorer. Jordan's offensive game takes a huge steaming shit on LeBrons.

LBJ's best scoring season was 31.4ppg. He only averaged more than 30ppg two times in his career and the second time was bang on 30.0. He has one scoring title. Jordan has 9 scoring titles and averaged over 30ppg in a season 8 times.

LeBron's post game is average to say the least, he is a patchy 3pt shooter, he can of course get to rim at will and score. But newflash so could Jordan. Jordan was also probably on par as a 3pt shooter with LeBron and had the greatest post game the game has ever seen with pretty much an undefendable shot that he could get at any time in any game he wanted. His fadeaway jumper out of the low block was like Kareem's skyhook. You cant defend it, you just have to hope he misses.

LeBron is a great defender as well. Jordan is the greatest small defender the game has ever seen. He won a DPOTY. LBJ despite his height advantage and muscle advantage on MJ has the exact same career bpg average at 0.8pg. But Jordan's single season averages at his best far outweigh LBJ's. In 87/88 Jordan averaged 1.6bpg, that is a respectable average for a 7 foot center. The same year Jordan averaged 35ppg and 3.2spg to lead the league in scoring and steals. Jordan has led the league in steals 3 times. LeBron has never led the league in steal and has managed to average over 2spg just once in his 11 year career. Jordan averaged over 2spg 10 times in his career.

So yes, LeBron is a new breed of player. Bigger and stronger and more athletic, although the last bit is debatable. I think Jordan could jump higher, hang longer and do far more athletically than LeBron can do. But I have also covered how Jordan is far superior defensively and far superior offensively.

All that and we still havent gotten to the mental side of things where it isnt even a fair fight. LeBron is a small boy in his mind. Jordan was a god.

Your statements are silly. Jordan is the GOAT. LeBron is just the best player in the world right now.

1) i said at some stage this season LeBron had the best PER ever, currently he doesnt so obviously the 2nd half of the season his stats declined.
2) You dont have to have a killer instinct to be a great player, im just saying Jordan had this.
3) That Bulls team was not even close to being as bad as what the Cavs were, not even close. You are right though, he had to rely on Pippen to mature to get it done which also coincided with the Celtics getting old as well as the Pistons.
Once again as stated previously, The Bulls were just 2 games worse when Jordan retired where the Cavs were pretty much 60 games worse when he went to Miami.
4)Jordan's scoring power should be better then LeBron's. Jordan is a SG while James is a SF. Jordan's game was built around his scoring ability where James is the complete package.
5) LeBron's post game is avg? LOL. Its far from avg, its just he doesnt do it enough.
6) LeBron is a better defender then Jordan, sorry. To say Jordan is a better defender then LeBron is laughable. Yes Jordan won a DPOTY but LeBron should have had it this year and could have had it last year as well.
7) Jordan jumped higher then LeBron and could do more athletically? c'mon son.

LeBron is a better defender, passer and better then Jordan going to the rim. Jordan is a better scorer and winner.

Jordan is the greatest right now, not even close. Careers end this can be diff but LeBron has some work to do

 

[ThePezDispenser]

How old are you?

LeBron is good. But he is no MJ. Even if Miami win the current Finals series, you ever think Jordan would let that happen to his team in a pivotal Game three with the series tied at a 1-1. No Jordan would have scored 50 and willed his team over the line.

Also where you getting this greatest PER of all time stat?

Jordan leads that im afraid.

Jordan is number 1 all time career in PER at 27.91 to LeBron, second all time at 27.65. LeBron's career will go backwards where he gets old and his numbers and efficiency drop. LeBron might get by Jordan but he will age and he might go him and then go backwards again and drop below him by the time he retires.

Side note also, LeBron's best single season PER still doesnt beat Jordan's best single season PER either. The top 10 individual PER season and Jordan has 4 of the top ten compared to Wilt and LeBron having 3 each.

So yeah... generally owned.

How can you even compare LBJ to Jordan?

You have Magic a host of others and Kobe all ahead of him

 

[jod23]

1) so you're wrong. Jordan has the greatest career PER.

2) that is ridiculous. Killer instinct is a MUST to becoming a great player.

3) the Bulls were horrible when Jordan joined and he regularly turned them into a 50 win team and a playoff team where he came up against better teams in the great Celtics and Pistons teams.

4) Why should Jordan be a better scorer just because he is a SG? Malone was a great scorer, he was a PF? Wilkins is one of the best scorers you will ever see, SF. Kareem has scored the most points in the history of the game, C. Iverson could fill it up, a PG. Anyone on the court can score, this isnt netball. LeBron is no more a complete package than MJ was.

5) LeBron's post game is average. He doesnt go to the post as much as he should because he knows it isnt his strong suit.

6) That is RIDICULOUS. I just told you why Jordan is a better defender, I backed it up with stats. LeBron despite being the physical specimen he is has a career average of BPG of 0.8, exactly the same as MJ. MJ's average wont move. LeBrons will slide down with age and as he loses his speed and athletic ability. LeBron steal numbers are average. Jordan led the league three times. But they are just number. Jordan, one on one, is a lock down defender. Outside of your big centers, there has never been a better small defender in the game than MJ. LeBron doesnt have the mentality to dominate both ends of the floor for entire games. Sure sometimes late in games you suddenly see LeBron guarding Durant or Parker or whatever. Jordan will set out to defend the best player on the opposite team for 48 minutes. Then drop 50 at the other end. LeBron doesn have this in his locker and if you think LeBron is a better defender than MJ then you are just plain wrong.

7) Cmon son? How do forget MJ? He has to duck under the rim sometimes when he gets up to dunk it. Jordan was ferocious when attacking the rim. DUNKING on everyone. LeBron dunks on well I was gonna name names but there simply isnt any great C's in the league. Jordan attacked and dunked on Mutombo, Mourning, Shaq, Robinson, Ewing, Olajuwon, time and time again. Not to mention you never see LeBron doing the fancy stuff MJ did in the air, the hangtime, the gliding past three or four bodies and then flipping it up at the other side of the rim. LeBron has power and he certainly can jump just as high as Jordan. He doesnt have Jordans technique. Also not as creative. LeBron is actually a boring dunker.

 

[5 GB USB]

This thread is about Kobe v Lebron.

MJ beats all and if you say his not then you obviously know zero.

 

[jod23]

This thread is about Kobe v Lebron.

MJ beats all and if you say his not then you obviously know zero.

That's what im trying to tell primetime cos he said LeBron is the greatest he has seen. Laughable stuff.

 

[5 GB USB]

That's what im trying to tell primetime cos he said LeBron is the greatest he has seen. Laughable stuff.

Yep, I agree 100%, Lebron is hardly better then Kobe if at all let alone better than MJ. Both are far behind

 

[Primetime Pricey]

LeBron is hardly better then Kobe LOL. Ok

LeBron is maybe only half way into his career, he has much more to do.

Killer instinct does not mean he cant or isnt a great player. Magic and Isiah never had this, so they arent great players?

Why should Jordan be a better scorer? because that was his game coming into the NBA and the Bulls up until the 90's didnt have anyone else to score. LeBron could avg over 30 a night if he wanted to. He facilitates more then he should. This is a flaw in his game, he must be more selfish.

Jordan took them regulary to 50 wins before they won a championship? he did it twice in 7 seasons before the 1990-91 championship season. They became a great side once Pippen arrived as a player. LeBron was getting that shit Cavs side into the playoffs every season.

LeBrons post game is far from avg

Jordan more athletic is ridiculous. He dunked on those centers cause back then there wasnt the 3 sec rule, centers just stood under the rim all game. If you could dunk you were always going to be able to do it on those guys at some stage. The under the rim change hands shot is arguably the most over rated shot of all time. LeBron gets past 3-4 defenders just like Jordan and finishes, to say he doesnt is wrong.

I was lucky enough to see Jordan play, he is the greatest as ive stated but the best player i have ever seen as a total package is LeBron.

 

[peternorth]

rodman says lebron wouldnt do shit in his era.

 

[peternorth]

I think LeBron's a dork. He won one world championship, and that was in the Olympic Games. It's so aggravating to hear a title be called a 'world champion' when it's only done in America. It's not a global event where the whole world can participate. You didn't win a world title. You won a national title."

from chael sonnen whoever he is (i know who he is via google but wouldnt know him from a bar of dove soap otherwise).

love the bolded comments

 

[Primetime Pricey]

rodman says lebron wouldnt do shit in his era.

lol Rodman, just like Pippen said LeBron is better then Jordan

 

[SuperCats9]

MJ

Daylight

Daylight

Daylight

Daylight

Kobe

LeBron

MJ is without doubt the greatest to ever play the game, no one can seriously disagree with that. Kobe has the runs on the board so as it stands right now he is ahead of LeBron but LeBron still has many years left so he will take over in the end.

LeBron James is a great player, a freak in many ways but he will never be as good as MJ, never.

 

[ThePezDispenser]

LBJ will "take over (Kobe) in the end"

Based on what? The fact he is already better then him?

What flawed logic.

 

[peternorth]

LBJ will "take over (Kobe) in the end"

Based on what? The fact he is already better then him?

What flawed logic.

you jumped on miami late last year, which means roughly 7-8 months of experiencing kobe, lebron et al. kobe's season has been fairly poor and it is unfair to base your viewpoint of his career on this small sample size.

 

[peternorth]

ok so i was searching for PTI dbacks vs dodgers brawl when this link came up

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_ESPN

thought id read it. first paragraph:

There is also an ample amount of video of evidence of ESPN's complete nut riding of Miami Heat superstar, Lebron James.

lol

 

[ThePezDispenser]

you jumped on miami late last year, which means roughly 7-8 months of experiencing kobe, lebron et al. kobe's season has been fairly poor and it is unfair to base your viewpoint of his career on this small sample size.

I wasn't forming an opinion either way, for me his logic is flawed, he is either better or he isn't. I figure he must then believe he is better?

 

[nufan]

I'm with you Primetime Pricey Lebron is the greatest I have ever seen. (before you jump down my throat with stats and Jordan bias diatribe jod23 I never got to see MJ in his prime only in my mid 20's)

If people for 2 minutes took off the Lebron hating glasses and actually just watched the guy instead of nit picking every slight mistake this discussion may be a little more interesting.

 

[jod23]

LeBron is hardly better then Kobe LOL. Ok

LeBron is maybe only half way into his career, he has much more to do.

Killer instinct does not mean he cant or isnt a great player. Magic and Isiah never had this, so they arent great players?

Why should Jordan be a better scorer? because that was his game coming into the NBA and the Bulls up until the 90's didnt have anyone else to score. LeBron could avg over 30 a night if he wanted to. He facilitates more then he should. This is a flaw in his game, he must be more selfish.

Jordan took them regulary to 50 wins before they won a championship? he did it twice in 7 seasons before the 1990-91 championship season. They became a great side once Pippen arrived as a player. LeBron was getting that shit Cavs side into the playoffs every season.

LeBrons post game is far from avg

Jordan more athletic is ridiculous. He dunked on those centers cause back then there wasnt the 3 sec rule, centers just stood under the rim all game. If you could dunk you were always going to be able to do it on those guys at some stage. The under the rim change hands shot is arguably the most over rated shot of all time. LeBron gets past 3-4 defenders just like Jordan and finishes, to say he doesnt is wrong.

I was lucky enough to see Jordan play, he is the greatest as ive stated but the best player i have ever seen as a total package is LeBron.

See when you say shit like Isiah Thomas and Magic Johnson dont have a killer instinct then it makes me question if you know much about basketball at all. Isiah Thomas was a freaking sniper! He would do anything to win which is why over the years he has had frosty relationships with MJ and Magic. Zeke was all about his killer instince on the court. I remember him scoring something like 23 points on his own in a quarter in the playoffs. The guy was nuts.

Magic... well that's just ridiculous. He won 5 NBA titles against some unbelievable teams in the 80s, you need to have that edge, the ice in your veins, the killer instinct to be able to do that. All the greats have it. Im just not sure LeBron does just yet, if at all.

No 3 sec rule? That's ******ed. If you drive, help defence will come. In todays game or back in the 80s and 90s. Jordan dunked on everybody got up ridiculously high. Also im not talking about going past 3 or 4 guys and finishing, im talking about those epic Jordan layups where he elevates, floats by defenders, under the rim and finishes on the other side. The guy has more hops and hang time than LBJ and is far FAR better dunker. The reason LeBron has never entered the dunk contest is because he isnt a great dunker. Jordan was far better athletically than LeBron is. LeBron is too heavy, too big to do what Jordan could do.

You say Jordan is the greatest but then say LeBron is the total package? So which is it? LeBron is Jordan light. Not as good offensively, not as good defensively and far far behind in the mental and intelligence side of the game.

It's not even a contest. It's amazing that you think so. LeBron has gone to the finals 3 times and won just once. Jordan went 6 times and won all 6. Jordan is the greatest, LeBron is the best right now. That's really all there is to it.

 

[jod23]

I'm with you Primetime Pricey Lebron is the greatest I have ever seen. (before you jump down my throat with stats and Jordan bias diatribe jod23 I never got to see MJ in his prime only in my mid 20's)

If people for 2 minutes took off the Lebron hating glasses and actually just watched the guy instead of nit picking every slight mistake this discussion may be a little more interesting.

Fair enough, you said the greatest you have seen cos you were too young to see MJ. I agree with you that people who grew up after MJ then of course LeBron is going to be best they have seen because he is probably the best since MJ.

But MJ is miillllessss better.

 

[nufan]

(In you opionion)

 

[Primetime Pricey]

Lol love it. Isaiah and Magic had killer instinct because Magic won 5 rings and Isiah hit 20 odd in a qtr once. LeBron has hit pretty much 20 in a qtr and to win 5 rings doesn't mean killer instinct lol.
The Jordan layups back then happen all the time now, it was such a big deal back then cause it didn't happen much. James won't go in the contest cause what's the point? The contest is not laughable and all prop driven.
LeBron is better defensively.
I watched most of Jordan's career, how could I not. All from the Tar Heels to the Wizards.
Of course it's easy to say Jordan's the greatest even though I think James is the best player I've seen all round. James has to win a few more rings and keep playing at his MVP level to be in the discussion,
I'm done with this now. Made my point

 

[peternorth]

lets just all agree that in terms of contribution to the game, magic is #1

 

[ThePezDispenser]

For the record...

Jordan

Daylight

Magic and a host of other players.

Kobe

LeBron

This, and then this:

Fair enough, you said the greatest you have seen cos you were too young to see MJ. I agree with you that people who grew up after MJ then of course LeBron is going to be best they have seen because he is probably the best since MJ.

But MJ is miillllessss better.

Am I missing something?

 

[nufan]

lets just all agree that in terms of contribution to the game, magic is #1

Him and Russel can share that