Lake gone for late first round pick

[cleveland]

Could have got more but I'm sure it will be remembered when a player wants to come to us ala koby Stevens

 

[Gghippo]

I think it was a win-win trade. There was risk on Hawthorn's part and it worked out for them. Hopefully this trade has built a relationship between the two clubs to facilitate future win-win trade situations. Ala our relationship with WCE.

Gez... Thinking back, Pelchen was a prick to deal with.... Can't see us (or anyone for that matter) trading with the Saints anytime soon.

 

[Trent85]

I'm very happy with Hrovat and Stevens, and with Lake getting a premiership/Norm Smith. But I couldn't help remembering this post all yesterday. Could we have got more?

Could we have got more? I would say probably not...

He wanted to leave and he wanted to go the Hawks so it limited our options...
We didn't have to pay out his contract which I would guess still owed about 500k...
As for him being a Norm Smith/Premiership winning player I say good on him IF you're going to play your best game of the season no better time to-do it then in the GF IF you’re lucky enough to make it...
As for did we hand them a Premiership I think that's a rather simplistic view it’s a 22 game season + finals so it take a lot of things to go your way to even get into a GF let alone win one.. I think personally we gave them a missing piece and the Hawks capitalised on it…
On the trade side of things I don’t how we could have gotten more than what we did i.e. Hrovat & Koby for Lake & O'Brien...

The simple fact is he didn't want to play for the Dogs what else where we suppose to-do force him to play for us this year??
He would have walked as a Free Agent this year and we would have gotten nothing for him... Also we would of had a pissed off player who didn't want to be at our club anymore, how would that be beneficial to anyone??
Let’s also be a bit honest here in regards to Lake he wasn't a little angel who always had our best interesting at heart... Or do people forget that he bent us over the barrel during his last contract talks and to make it worse I think it was a factor in why we lost Ward. His (Brian's) contract negotiations was poorly handed by all parties IMO same with Ward's but more so by us. With Ward’s contract we were preoccupied in trying to keep one of best defenders in the comp and we as a club neglected a future midfielder star. It was a crappy situation for everyone and another dark moment for our club…
Also most of us knew or guessed he wanted out from the shyte handling of him during 2011 you could tell about halfway thru last year he just stopped caring and wanted out…

Could of we held out longer and maybe gotten a better deal?? I think it was the best deal we could have gotten under the circumstances.
Like what I said above how could of we gotten more?? We were in a shyte position to negotiate and it was only because of our smart trading and drafting that I think it was a WIN WIN for all parties involved.
Will we win in the long run?? I don't know but as of yesterday the Hawks most definitely won their side of trade so they would be laughing. We just have to be patient and wait for our investments to pay out so to speak...

Before I finish my little tirade or whatever you want to call this long winded ramble... I wished him the all best when he left and I still do I have no bad blood towards him.
Does that mean that I didn’t feel sick etc. seeing him hold up the Premiership Cup and him having the Norm Smith/Premiership medals around his neck???
It most definitely made me feel ill to see it and it was also deflating to see his kids in Hawks colours…
But what are we going to-do hex him and his family??
I think as a club, members, fans, supporters etc. we are above that childish stuff i.e. holding a grudge against a near 200 game legend of our club. It will sting for days for some, months for others and maybe even years for the die hards... Eventually we all will move on..

Form my perspective I’m already over it I personally can’t wait for the trading/drafting period to start and to conclude because like always NEXT YEAR IS OUR YEAR GO DOGS!!!

 

[paulveed]

Have to say, I am a little disappointed at some of the bile directed at Lake in the last 24 hours by Dogs fans.
He has been a champion of our club, and for mine should be treated that way. I was really pleased for him, and
impressed by his Lake-of-old performance on the big stage yesterday.

Now that does not mean I was not disappointed at the time of his departure.
I know it [AFL ] is a business these days, but I much prefer shows of loyalty, from both sides...players and clubs.

That said though, I understand his wish to play in a premiership before he retired, and there way no way that was
going to happen with the Dogs in his last years.
I don't think Lakey would have made a particularly good tutor for our young developing defenders, anyway we still
had Moz who fills that role brilliantly. Lake while a brilliant backman, has a style of playing the role that is unique to
his personality, and not necessarily easily transferable to others.

I still think the club rushed into things a little too quickly on the trade, and could have squeezed a LITTLE more out
of Hawthorn, as they were the ones with the need, not us.
But we did get Hrovat, and I think he will be a ripper in the coming seasons.

All that aside, if Lakey's son/s turn out to be good footballers in the future, guess who has the F/S option on them?
It wont be the Hawks, that's for sure.

 

[_M_16_]

Could we have got more? Who knows, it is all speculation. I am pretty sure it was mentioned somewhere in a post of by a Bulldogs representative that the Hawks were the only team to be offering anything. If that is the case, then we could not have gotten more for him, as we had nothing to bargain with to drive the price up. And to be fair Lake was seen as coming off two injury affected and average years by his standard, and probably has less than 5 years of service left. No ways would have he commanded a first round pick.

We couldn't have forecast him winning the Grand Final. In all honesty the Hawks have used Lake in different ways this season, and he has been good without being spectacular. The Grand Final he was allowed to play his free roaming role and it was probably his best game of the whole season.

I think we got the best we could from him and the right and realistic deal.

 

[paulveed]

Could we have got more? Who knows, it is all speculation. I am pretty sure it was mentioned somewhere in a post of by a Bulldogs representative that the Hawks were the only team to be offering anything. If that is the case, then we could not have gotten more for him, as we had nothing to bargain with to drive the price up. And to be fair Lake was seen as coming off two injury affected and average years by his standard, and probably has less than 5 years of service left. No ways would have he commanded a first round pick.

We couldn't have forecast him winning the Grand Final. In all honesty the Hawks have used Lake in different ways this season, and he has been good without being spectacular. The Grand Final he was allowed to play his free roaming role and it was probably his best game of the whole season.

I think we got the best we could from him and the right and realistic deal.

Yeah I am aware it was Hawks only interested in trading for him. I just felt we may have jumped too quick, and could have put a bit more pressure back on the Hawks. A straight swap, Lake for P21 might have left us with P27 as well, which would have put us in an even stronger position in both the trade period, and drafts.
Still none of us were parties to the discussions, so I guess we will never know what could or could not have been.

 

[_M_16_]

Pretty good article in The Age about Lake, and the trade that made it all happen.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/old-dog-with-a-new-trick-20130928-2ulhu.html

 

[dogwatch]

Pretty good article in The Age about Lake, and the trade that made it all happen.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/old-dog-with-a-new-trick-20130928-2ulhu.html

Gee Emma Quayle is streets ahead of most footy journos. Good article.

 

[murphy2bedabest]

This year we had Roughead learning from the best FB in my time in matty Scarlett, aswell as aloowing Talia to play along side Dale Morris for most of the year.

Stevens and Hrovat came into our side.

we didn't have to pay Lake out.

also as already said, this deal build a really good working relationship with the Hawks, so later down the track it maybe payed forward, not only with the Hawks but other clubs.

all in all its a win/win deal that imo we will end up getting more from

 

[Proffessor]

The ability of people to rationalise decisions that were clearly mistakes and pretend that they were positives apparently knows no bounds. People continuing to call the Lake trade a win-win, has been bad enough, but now suggesting that we are building a good working relationship with the Hawks! Just when I thought I'd have heard everything.

The relationship has worked great for Hawthorn for a while now, just not for us. They screwed us over big time in the Rawlings trade, and apparently were happy to take us for suckers again when we handed over the missing link to their premiership dreams for a bargain basement price. They have a great working relationship with North Melbourne and Freo too as doing our three clubs over at the trade table has helped the Hawks significantly over the years.

I know people like to make out that we got both Hrovat and Stevens in the Lake trade, but you could also strongly argue that we would have gotten Hrovat with pick 27 anyway, and could have gotten Stevens with a 4th round pick or even in the preseason draft, meaning we got close to nothing Lake. I prefer to consider we got Stevens for Lake, and while I still have high hopes for Stevens, giving up one of the best FB's of all time for a kid on the outer at West Coast was clearly a lop sided trade, not in our favour.
We didn't need to trade Lake because he was under contract.

The Hawks are laughing even harder now than they were after the infamous Veale Deal for Rawlings.
The Dogs should never trade with them again, unless it is an obvious win-loss in our favour.

 

[timtamWB]

The ability of people to rationalise decisions that were clearly mistakes and pretend that they were positives apparently knows no bounds. People continuing to call the Lake trade a win-win, has been bad enough, but now suggesting that we are building a good working relationship with the Hawks! Just when I thought I'd have heard everything.

The relationship has worked great for Hawthorn for a while now, just not for us. They screwed us over big time in the Rawlings trade, and apparently were happy to take us for suckers again when we handed over the missing link to their premiership dreams for a bargain basement price. They have a great working relationship with North Melbourne and Freo too as doing our three clubs over at the trade table has helped the Hawks significantly over the years.

I know people like to make out that we got both Hrovat and Stevens in the Lake trade, but you could also strongly argue that we would have gotten Hrovat with pick 27 anyway, and could have gotten Stevens with a 4th round pick or even in the preseason draft, meaning we got close to nothing Lake. I prefer to consider we got Stevens for Lake, and while I still have high hopes for Stevens, giving up one of the best FB's of all time for a kid on the outer at West Coast was clearly a lop sided trade, not in our favour.
We didn't need to trade Lake because he was under contract.

The Hawks are laughing even harder now than they were after the infamous Veale Deal for Rawlings.
The Dogs should never trade with them again, unless it is an obvious win-loss in our favour.

I missed you. <3

I also like how you conveniently left out that Lake was unhappy that he was going to be played as a forward and so would not have benefited us at all?

How about the fact that if we didn't trade him he would've walked the next year because he would've been a free agent?

Hrovat was a slider, we couldn't get his name out fast enough and would've been snapped up before pick 27 easily. Stevens we probably could have got in the PSD, but we have a good relationship with WC and weren't going to shaft them.

 

[murphy2bedabest]

The ability of people to rationalise decisions that were clearly mistakes and pretend that they were positives apparently knows no bounds. People continuing to call the Lake trade a win-win, has been bad enough, but now suggesting that we are building a good working relationship with the Hawks! Just when I thought I'd have heard everything.

The relationship has worked great for Hawthorn for a while now, just not for us. They screwed us over big time in the Rawlings trade, and apparently were happy to take us for suckers again when we handed over the missing link to their premiership dreams for a bargain basement price. They have a great working relationship with North Melbourne and Freo too as doing our three clubs over at the trade table has helped the Hawks significantly over the years.

I know people like to make out that we got both Hrovat and Stevens in the Lake trade, but you could also strongly argue that we would have gotten Hrovat with pick 27 anyway, and could have gotten Stevens with a 4th round pick or even in the preseason draft, meaning we got close to nothing Lake. I prefer to consider we got Stevens for Lake, and while I still have high hopes for Stevens, giving up one of the best FB's of all time for a kid on the outer at West Coast was clearly a lop sided trade, not in our favour.
We didn't need to trade Lake because he was under contract.

The Hawks are laughing even harder now than they were after the infamous Veale Deal for Rawlings.
The Dogs should never trade with them again, unless it is an obvious win-loss in our favour.

how did they screw us in the said veale deal? we were the one's who made a late bid to block them from trading with north forcing him into the PSD were we swooped with pick 1

the person who screwed us was peter Roade who if he just left it and the other trades that saw us get koopes and Street.

in 2003 we had picks 1, 4 and 19 we also gained pick 6 and 20 from the tigers for Brown.

so we could have gone into the draft with 5 top 20 picks and ended up with

1 Cooney
4 Ray
6 Bradley/Waters/chaplin
19 mundy
20 butler

not to mention instead of picking up street as a rucking option we could have drafted Ben Hudson at 50, then in the PSD picked up Nick Stevens

this as a whole is our greatest mistake as a Club.

 

[_Mike_]

We didn't need to trade Lake because he was under contract.

Had he stayed with us this year he would now be a free agent. His contract would have been up at the end of this year.. Do you understand what that means?

He could have walked leaving us nothing.

in case you want to argue how long he had on his contract...

http://www.theroar.com.au/2011/07/29/brian-lake-to-depart-whitten-oval-after-177-games/

your argument, unfortunately, fails to rationalise the facts. Had we played hardball with Lake and forced him to play his last year, he could have walked leaving us nothing

 

[GoalSneak38]

We did the right thing trading him. What I hate is how he held us over a barrel (with his slimy, cross eyed agent) and we paid him a fortune to stay. He then takes a Hawthorn. How they stay under the salary cap down at Hawthorn is beyond me

 

[Proffessor]

I'm aware that Lake would have been a free agent, however had we not traded in 2012 we would still likely have been compensated if he had have walked in 2013, like the Saints were with Goddard. Not to mention having Lake playing with us for another year. Him wanting to leave is largely irrelevant, he was a professional under contract.

The argument that we had to trade him in 2012 because we might get poor compensation in 2013, is a little silly when we traded him for so little in 2012.

If Hawthorn weren't prepared to pay appropriate value we should have called their bluff.
They beat us at the negotiation table just like they have on the field.
Better to face up to the facts and learn from them, rather than adopt our standard strategy over the last couple of years of self-delusion.

We sold the missing link for a flag to one of our opponents, cheaply. They won the flag because they have been smart both on and off the field. We have finished down in the bottom four for the second year running because we haven't been.

 

[timtamWB]

Saints got a pick after their first round pick for BJ.

We would have been lucky to get one after our third round for Lake.

 

[Proffessor]

An extra year of Lake, similar compensation to what we traded for in 2012, plus sending a message that we aren't easy pickings at the trade table.

Sounds like a much better deal to me.

As an added bonus, we don't reinforce the message that the best option Bulldog players have to win a flag is going to another club.

 

[timtamWB]

An extra year of Lake in a position he doesn't want to play in a place he doesn't want to be. And Lake wouldn't have liked that, and would not have given his all, in fact probably would have loped around and been dropped to the VFL. Not similar compensation at all as we would get a 3rd round pick at best, plus add to the fact that this is a shallow draft and a 3rd round pick means nothing, whereas we got the pick upgrade that allowed us to snare Hrovat who looks like a 200 gamer, and a 3rd round pick to get Stevens, who looks like at least a 100+ gamer.

And it didn't say we are easy pickings. It stated we are willing to accomodate all clubs in win win trades, and that we are good to deal with, and fair to our players, which also increases the likelihood of players wanting to come to the Dogs. Including players like Crameri, who is well and truly in the Dons best 22.

Now you really are clutching at straws. Nobody is thinking the best option Dogs players have to win a flag is going to another club.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

I would definitely say it has been a win-win trade.

Had you kept him (for one year with free agency coming into play) he would of still been the gun he's been for us. But to be honest - with respect - the dogs weren't winning the flag this year. Lake is 31, Hrovat is far more likely to contribute to a Bulldogs flag. Lake was crucial to our flag and hopefully we get 1 or 2 more years from him. Definite win-win.

McCartney was realistic. Very astute move.

Good luck next year

 

[_Mike_]

I'm aware that Lake would have been a free agent, however had we not traded in 2012 we would still likely have been compensated if he had have walked in 2013, like the Saints were with Goddard.

There is no compensation for a player who walks as a free agent. (Which Lake would be now). We would have gotten nothing if he walked at the end of this season...

Goddard was a restricted agent.. There is a difference

I don't like that he left, however I can understand his reasons why. At least we got a trade out of it rather than nothing had we forced the hand. Maybe we didn't trade harder, but without knowing the discussion its a little difficult to presume what went on

 

[Lucky Star]

There is no compensation for a player who walks as a free agent. (Which Lake would be now). We would have gotten nothing if he walked at the end of this season...

Goddard was a restricted agent.. There is a difference

I don't like that he left, however I can understand his reasons why. At least we got a trade out of it rather than nothing had we forced the hand. Maybe we didn't trade harder, but without knowing the discussion its a little difficult to presume what went on

Mate you are arguing with a bloke who has misspelt "Professor"

 

[_Mike_]

Mate you are arguing with a bloke who has misspelt "Professor"

duly noted

 

[Reptilia]

Who cares.. It was a win/win situation.. It's fast tracked our development and it got hawthorn a premiership..

 

[King Harold]

We did the right thing trading him. What I hate is how he held us over a barrel (with his slimy, cross eyed agent) and we paid him a fortune to stay. He then takes a Hawthorn. How they stay under the salary cap down at Hawthorn is beyond me

It is amazing how the bigger clubs seem to add good players from other clubs when ever they need to.
Must be ok , but its got me beat !

 

[King Harold]

Are people missing the point , I think our club were more than happy to move him on, so why are people so hard on Lake ?