Society/Culture Landlords - What is the point?

[Gralin]

Because single people and DINKS are black-hearted, evil monsters?

you're not helping the economy if you don't breed, Jim Chalmers said so

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Marxism is alive and well

 

[faible]

Fair enough. Which tax changes do you favour in respect to property investors?

Remove the CGT Discounting Howard brought in that happened to coincide with a rapid escalation in house prices?

Housing shouldn't be incentivised as an investment class, we already have issues with supply and demand, so incentivising housing as investment just pours fuel on that fire.

 

[Taylor]

Remove the CGT Discounting Howard brought in that happened to coincide with a rapid escalation in house prices?

Housing shouldn't be incentivised as an investment class, we already have issues with supply and demand, so incentivising housing as investment just pours fuel on that fire.

Why would people want to downsize if it costs them a fortune in tax if they can just hold onto it instead?

 

[faible]

Why would people want to downsize if it costs them a fortune in tax if they can just hold onto it instead?

Do we really think people in their 60s and 70s downsizing from the family home is going to be the portion of the market that suddenly sees young renters able to buy homes? Doubtful.

It's one of those things that hides behind fringe case arguments that create a systemic issue that deeply favour property investors and encourages investing in the space.

 

[Gralin]

Do we really think people in their 60s and 70s downsizing from the family home is going to be the portion of the market that suddenly sees young renters able to buy homes? Doubtful.

It's one of those things that hides behind fringe case arguments that create a systemic issue that deeply favour property investors and encourages investing in the space.

i wouldnt be able to afford my parents place, nor would I want it, nowhere near a train station and almost 40 years old

But it would go for easily 10x what it cost them to build

I also dont recall CGT being an issue on your primary residence so I'm not sure what Taylor was doing bringing up downsizing as a reason to keep a CGT discount on investment properites

 

[faible]

i wouldnt be able to afford my parents place, nor would I want it, nowhere near a train station and almost 40 years old

But it would go for easily 10x what it cost them to build

I also dont recall CGT being an issue on your primary residence so I'm not sure what Taylor was doing bringing up downsizing as a reason to keep a CGT discount on investment properites

Also neglects that if you're paying tax because you've made money on the value of the house, whilst living in the house, you've still made money.

 

[Taylor]

Also neglects that if you're paying tax because you've made money on the value of the house, whilst living in the house, you've still made money.

The number of dollars required to buy the house has gone up, I'm not convinced the value has gone up.

I think if you want to get more current holders selling to first home buyers you can give people a tax break, as in no CGT at all, when selling to first home buyers and that could be selling at a discount too since the end result will still be better for the current owner.

 

[Gralin]

like they'd sell at a discount lol

 

[Taylor]

like they'd sell at a discount lol

If they have an offer from a first home buying knowing it will result in $250,000 of cap gain not being taxed I think they'll take it.

I actually think they will shop around for first home buyers.

You'll need to make sure new migrants to Australia don't qualify as first home buyers because they'll be lined up to buy them in a flash, with cash.

Not trying to wedge an issue there, but it's a serious consideration.

 

[Kram]

Perth there is just a ridiculous supply shortage atm, get 50+ people looking at a place at first open and then under offer by midweek.

I think prices have easily gone up 5%+ in the late 6 months.

 

[Taylor]

I've heard of a lot of sales that don't even hit the market, agents sell houses to buyers outside of WA before the sign goes up.

Quite a little gig for their percentage cut for a few hours of paperwork.

 

[burge13]

Perth there is just a ridiculous supply shortage atm, get 50+ people looking at a place at first open and then under offer by midweek.

I think prices have easily gone up 5%+ in the late 6 months.

Family member sold recently and had 2 offers above asking price before the first open. Had an open and got 2 more above asking

REA said 'best offers within 48 hours' and ended up going 95k above initial asking price.

Decent school zone, very basic 3 bed house. I couldn't fathom paying that but that's the rate now, **** knows how people afford it

A mate in finance said it's becoming normal for offers to forgo building inspection. Biggest investment of your life and not taking any safeguards just to make your already stretched offer more attractive to the other stretched offers. It's nuts

I don't care what the formal data companies say, houses have gone up more than 5% in 6 months and is surely > 15-20% at a minimum the last 18 months

 

[faible]

Family member sold recently and had 2 offers above asking price before the first open. Had an open and got 2 more above asking

REA said 'best offers within 48 hours' and ended up going 95k above initial asking price.

Decent school zone, very basic 3 bed house. I couldn't fathom paying that but that's the rate now, **** knows how people afford it

A mate in finance said it's becoming normal for offers to forgo building inspection. Biggest investment of your life and not taking any safeguards just to make your already stretched offer more attractive to the other stretched offers. It's nuts

I don't care what the formal data companies say, houses have gone up more than 5% in 6 months and is surely > 15-20% at a minimum the last 18 months

I assume housing data is very broad, so stuff at the very top-end might not have moved that much whilst the 'first family home' type houses are skyrocketing.

 

[burge13]

I assume housing data is very broad, so stuff at the very top-end might not have moved that much whilst the 'first family home' type houses are skyrocketing.

Probably, but the majority of house sales would fall well under 'top end' so they might account for some under reporting of % rise but not much

When a suburb like Valley View here can achieve $1m sales, something is wrong...

Banks must have quietly loosened lending standards because the prices must be way over old thresholds for mortgage cost to earnings ratios

 

[Gralin]

Family member sold recently and had 2 offers above asking price before the first open. Had an open and got 2 more above asking

REA said 'best offers within 48 hours' and ended up going 95k above initial asking price.

Decent school zone, very basic 3 bed house. I couldn't fathom paying that but that's the rate now, **** knows how people afford it

A mate in finance said it's becoming normal for offers to forgo building inspection. Biggest investment of your life and not taking any safeguards just to make your already stretched offer more attractive to the other stretched offers. It's nuts

I don't care what the formal data companies say, houses have gone up more than 5% in 6 months and is surely > 15-20% at a minimum the last 18 months

Agents have pushing for unconditional offers without inspections for at least 3-4 years now

 

[burge13]

Agents have pushing for unconditional offers without inspections for at least 3-4 years now

Should never happen. First I'd heard of it here though

 

[Gralin]

Some buyers also try and make a smaller offer look more attractive by having less conditions

 

[Gralin]

Should never happen. First I'd heard of it here though

gotta love a self regulating industry where the default is buyer beware

the fact that its up to the purchaser to make sure the property is fit to buy, when they don't have the right or access to do that properly says it all about the system

 

[barreness]

Why would people want to downsize if it costs them a fortune in tax if they can just hold onto it instead?

There is no CGT at all on primary place of residence, are you rewriting our entire tax code for some spurious argument

https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-...residence-home/moving-to-a-new-main-residence

 

[Taylor]

There is no CGT at all on primary place of residence, are you rewriting our entire tax code for some spurious argument

https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-...residence-home/moving-to-a-new-main-residence

So extend that to investment properties being sold to first home buyers, you can decide if you want cashed up migrants to count in that.

 

[barreness]

So extend that to investment properties being sold to first home buyers, you can decide if you want cashed up migrants to count in that.

Why? You think there shouldn't be a tax on investment earnings?
Sounds like a lets let the wealthy gain more wealth through tax loopholes neoliberalism thing

N.B. you were talking about cgt causing limitations on the downsizing market before, kinda changing the argument

 

[Taylor]

Why? You think there shouldn't be a tax on investment earnings?
Sounds like a lets let the wealthy gain more wealth through tax loopholes neoliberalism thing

N.B. you were talking about cgt causing limitations on the downsizing market before, kinda changing the argument

The entire point was to have those who have long held properties selling at below market rate to first home buyers, because they get a considerable tax advantage to doing so. It quite literally distributes the wealth of the rich to the young and poorer by way of not extracting it from the wealthier party to be spent anywhere else and goes directly to the younger poorer person. There could be sales going through with $100,000+ discounts on market rates if circumstances line up and you allow home owners to shop their house to first home buyers - and both parties will win. The only side of that arrangement who miss out is the government, but this is all their fault to begin with so stuff them.

The challenge is to clearly define a first home buyer, which I will leave up to you.

 

[Captivating]

gotta love a self regulating industry where the default is buyer beware

the fact that its up to the purchaser to make sure the property is fit to buy, when they don't have the right or access to do that properly says it all about the system

That's because what you are ultimately buying is a piece of land. That's what goes up in value. Anything built on is a appreciating liability.

 

[bzparkes]

Remove the CGT Discounting Howard brought in that happened to coincide with a rapid escalation in house prices?

Housing shouldn't be incentivised as an investment class, we already have issues with supply and demand, so incentivising housing as investment just pours fuel on that fire.

Interesting point on your second line.

Personally, I find it so odd that housing is still being pushed as the primary investment most people should be striving for when in reality, for most it's simply a debt trap they'll be chained to for most of their lives, that ends up costing them significant amounts of money every year to maintain.

Then there's the barrier to entry simply to begin with.

I certainly agree that this is a major cause for concern, as people should be able to have access to affordable housing that isn't in remote country towns, or 3 hours from the CBD of a major city. Instead, it's an asset that is getting increasingly out of reach of future generations.

Back on the investment front, there's far better options for you to greatly increase your wealth that don't get you into mountains of debt. Better off investing in an education to learn how to trade/invest properly into the markets, unless you have a high enough income that allows you to do both.