Discussion Let's talk about our debt

[From 45]

Why would we. There is nothing you suggested we could claim for. I would doubt many local clubs would. The only insurance we would have is player’s insurance. We certainly wouldn’t insure stock. The building would be the council. Well it is for sure.

I have seen so many claims for money embezzlement within sporting clubs.Theres also cover for tax audit. You'd be surprised. Building insurance cover is normally the reresponsibility of the tenant and would be part of the lease agreement which forms part of their outgoings

 

[plugger66]

I have seen so many claims for money embezzlement within sporting clubs.Theres also cover for tax audit. You'd be surprised. Building insurance cover is normally the reresponsibility of the tenant and would be part of the lease agreement which forms part of their outgoings

The council definitely pay building insurance. They may bill us the amount in fees which I doubt but we don’t pay it. I’m unsure people renting pay building insurance. Well they obviously don’t. I’ve owned a business and we only paid insurance on stock. I’d be very surprised that a sports club would be different to anyone else. And we certainly don’t have insurance on embezzlement. That I’m 100% sure of

 

[70s sainter]

If a ventriloquist walks into a bar and his dummy orders a beer- who pays, the dummy or the ventriloquist?

It's not our debt, it's the leagues debt.

The league manage/confect the competition to such a degree that the clubs biggest reason for existing is as branding tools.

Sure, the league would prefer clubs to be making money rather than losing it... but our debt is loose change in the scheme of things.

The debt itself is not a threat to our existence.... the fact that it gives the league an excuse to kill us off (if they get serious about wanting to do something about their "too many teams in vic" problem) ... well that IS a threat

Yeh it could be a threat and I see where you’re coming from . Its lucky we have some high profile people that are passionate supporters of the club ie Warne , Bana , Jayco etc that would rally . And Gill himself is a saints man so.....

 

[From 45]

The council definitely pay building insurance. They may bill us the amount in fees which I doubt but we don’t pay it. I’m unsure people renting pay building insurance. Well they obviously don’t. I’ve owned a business and we only paid insurance on stock. I’d be very surprised that a sports club would be different to anyone else. And we certainly don’t have insurance on embezzlement. That I’m 100% sure of

Ok mate. It's just my full time job. 99% of property owners ensure the tenant takes out insurance for building cover etc. The other 1% , the property owner takes out the insurance and forwards the bill to the tenant.

 

[plugger66]

Ok mate. It's just my full time job. 99% of property owners ensure the tenant takes out insurance for building cover etc. The other 1% , the property owner takes out the insurance and forwards the bill to the tenant.

Well it’s changed from when I owned business. And my daughter must be lucky. No building insurance Where she lives. And our club doesnt pay building insurance. Just checked with the treasurer who is in my betting syndicate. I’m obviously involved in a lucky group of people. Well not lucky on the punt.

 

[From 45]

Well it’s changed from when I owned business. And my daughter must be lucky. No building insurance Where she lives. And our club doesnt pay building insurance. Just checked with the treasurer who is in my betting syndicate. I’m obviously involved in a

Well it’s changed from when I owned business. And my daughter must be lucky. No building insurance Where she lives. And our club doesnt pay building insurance. Just checked with the treasurer who is in my betting syndicate. I’m obviously involved in a lucky group of people. Well not lucky on the punt.

Id say the reason your daughter doesn't pay for building insurance is because it's part of a body corporate, which they take out the building insurance and and this would be incorporated in her rates she pays. As for your treasure, God knows as I know the council don't normally pay for building insurance( other than Ormond FC) . They are normally noted as an Interested Party.

Anyway, you win. I'm done

 

[plugger66]

Id say the reason your daughter doesn't pay for building insurance is because it's part of a body corporate, which they take out the building insurance and and this would be incorporated in her rates she pays. As for your treasure, God knows as I know the council don't normally pay for building insurance( other than Ormond FC) . They are normally noted as an Interested Party.

Anyway, you win. I'm done

Body corporate? She lives in a house. The internet quite clearly says the landlord pays. Maybe they are wrong. And of course the council pay building insurance. What happens for the 6 months it’s unoccupied. Just for your info Kingston council pay all building insurance. Clubs need $20 million public liability insurance. Same with boorondara. Couldn’t find glen eira. Reckon it might be the same. No public liability insurance needed this year as we haven’t been given the keys to the ground

 

[LuckyBounce!]

12 million in debt with 50,000 members (almost). Every member puts in $240 the debts gone. I know it’s simplistic and especially at the moment not practical but something like this should be considered down the track If times get desperate and the clubs future is on the line.

 

[plugger66]

12 million in debt with 50,000 members (almost). Every member puts in $240 the debts gone. I know it’s simplistic and especially at the moment not practical but something like this should be considered down the track If times get desperate and the clubs future is on the line.

we may struggle to get 50k members next year because of the cv let alone asking for more money even down the track. And it’s not that simple. A one month old isn’t paying so guess who pays. Yep the parent who probably pays for himself and maybe others And the debt could be 20 million if not more next year.

 

[Rickee]

One of the guys I was working with last week is a VFL footballer. Sounds like he's not sure if he'll still be playing next year. They haven't heard much but there are a lot of clubs shedding everything that looks like a liability. Heaps of community clubs are likely to have to shut down too. Women's footy might not last either.

The CEO of the Ballarat League and AFL Goldfields have very definitively stated that the leagues and clubs up here will be absolutely fine due to the community nature of the clubs. They aren't paying staff or players, as they aren't playing, the grounds are all council maintained and there are almost no overheads to pay while the competitions are on hiatus.

Things are almost guaranteed to change, and we will be feeling the effects of the shortened 2020 season for some years to come, but I can't see the AFL world falling apart that drastically.

 

[StFly]

The CEO of the Ballarat League and AFL Goldfields have very definitively stated that the leagues and clubs up here will be absolutely fine due to the community nature of the clubs. They aren't paying staff or players, as they aren't playing, the grounds are all council maintained and there are almost no overheads to pay while the competitions are on hiatus.

Things are almost guaranteed to change, and we will be feeling the effects of the shortened 2020 season for some years to come, but I can't see the AFL world falling apart that drastically.

From my time at the Lions (piss off Redan!), this is largely the case, locally there's "enough" and goodwill where we support each other, and the council does indeed own and maintain things from the oval & courts (which is why the back ones were all cracked and not in use, GG Hume) and things like ground lighting and cleaning services. Differently operated to the AFL clubs overhead wise (was an interesting look when compared to those in the EDFL costs wise, where a single player dwarfs an entire club) so can't really be compared though.

 

[Saints43]

12 million in debt with 50,000 members (almost). Every member puts in $240 the debts gone. I know it’s simplistic and especially at the moment not practical but something like this should be considered down the track If times get desperate and the clubs future is on the line.

Many years ago the club had (I think) the Baldock foundation that was building find where donations were tax deductible.
I wrote to the club and suggested that they should take take tax reductase donations worth more (say double) than memberships and sling memberships as a reward. Bigger income for the club and tax receipts for members.
But they told me it wasn't allowed.

 

[gringo2011]

The CEO of the Ballarat League and AFL Goldfields have very definitively stated that the leagues and clubs up here will be absolutely fine due to the community nature of the clubs. They aren't paying staff or players, as they aren't playing, the grounds are all council maintained and there are almost no overheads to pay while the competitions are on hiatus.

Things are almost guaranteed to change, and we will be feeling the effects of the shortened 2020 season for some years to come, but I can't see the AFL world falling apart that drastically.

I saw him again today. He said he earns more playing games in the country than in the VFL. Country footy must be doing something right.

 

[gringo2011]

Many years ago the club had (I think) the Baldock foundation that was building find where donations were tax deductible.
I wrote to the club and suggested that they should take take tax reductase donations worth more (say double) than memberships and sling memberships as a reward. Bigger income for the club and tax receipts for members.
But they told me it wasn't allowed.

I know the club did it through the Australian sports foundation or something to avoid having to do some kind of tax free donations thing for Moorabin. You donated to them and they sent it through as the proffered recipient. The compliance for some of that stuff is a lot stricter now. It's not like the days of rubbish bins that you throw coins in at the gates.

 

[Keg on legs]

Heading into work I had a lightbulb moment.

Why don't the club get their hands on as many face masks as possible (not an easy task) and have them painted in RW&B. Then supporters can buy them as merch and wear them before the games start and then when we can actually go back to games they will add even more colour to our crowd.

Anyone have links to the club who could throw the idea back to them? George ?

 

[George]

Heading into work I had a lightbulb moment.

Why don't the club get their hands on as many face masks as possible (not an easy task) and have them painted in RW&B. Then supporters can buy them as merch and wear them before the games start and then when we can actually go back to games they will add even more colour to our crowd.

Anyone have links to the club who could throw the idea back to them? George ?

Yes mate happy to ask for you, in fact I was going to get in touch with Matt next week to see if I personally could do anything to help out.

I know Mowman has asked me too, maybe we can get a discussion going.

 

[Sainteric]

It's not untenable debt, and that's the crux of the matter as it was in the 90's and why Fitzroy got the lemon.

So long as the AFL commission have money to assist with bankrolling clubs as licensed entities of said commission, clubs will exist. The very moment the AFL commission go "we have to kill someone" in conjunction with those that hold the debt saying "you must pay this amount, by this date", then that debt becomes a problem.

Until such a time, people are talking from their arses about which clubs die and why debt is bad or good.

It's always a problem if your very existence is in the hands of others.

 

[Mowman]

Yes mate happy to ask for you, in fact I was going to get in touch with Matt next week to see if I personally could do anything to help out.

I know Mowman has asked me too, maybe we can get a discussion going.

Imagine if we put the energy into this like we have into the politics thread and coranvirus thread

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Imagine if we put the energy into this like we have into the politics thread and coranvirus thread

The club would be playing in a gold plated stadium with solid gold toilets, bars, goalposts and scoreboards.

 

[StFly]

It's always a problem if you existence is in the hands of others.

It's not, we're a few million above the nazi approach to money. Which is also why a fair few people globally have a thing called a mortgage and most countries run a deficit government in excess of GDP in the western world. Debt alone is not bad when you have the capacity to pay it, and we have the capacity to pay it as evidenced by the 90's where Brisbane merged with Fitzroy and we retained our identity, or for a more recent example, where we didn't jettison our VFL affiliate and defecate ourselves.

In this reality, where the Commission states "we will have 18 teams" and lenders are saying "we will back in people who cannot immediately pay loans for x months" is the reality where our debt is OK and not an immediate thing, but simply requires some trimming to maintain, just like 98% of everyone else who isn't a multi millionaire living in massive excess.

 

[plugger66]

It's not, we're a few million above the nazi approach to money. Which is also why a fair few people globally have a thing called a mortgage and most countries run a deficit government in excess of GDP in the western world. Debt alone is not bad when you have the capacity to pay it, and we have the capacity to pay it as evidenced by the 90's where Brisbane merged with Fitzroy and we retained our identity, or for a more recent example, where we didn't jettison our VFL affiliate and defecate ourselves.

In this reality, where the Commission states "we will have 18 teams" and lenders are saying "we will back in people who cannot immediately pay loans for x months" is the reality where our debt is OK and not an immediate thing, but simply requires some trimming to maintain, just like 98% of everyone else who isn't a multi millionaire living in massive excess.

no doubt this broadcast rights there will be 18 teams but just thinking a 20 million debt as we will be right in the future is might not be so right. I still think eventually this year brings a relocation to at least one club or two clubs fold.

 

[gringo2011]

no doubt this broadcast rights there will be 18 teams but just thinking a 20 million debt as we will be right in the future is might not be so right. I still think eventually this year brings a relocation to at least one club or two clubs fold.

It will depend on how long it goes and how much the financial backlash from stimulus hits governments. The AFL s a cash cow but a lot of the money they spend including on community footy and grounds is provided by state and federal governments. If TV rights and government money gets tight the AFL might have to trim a lot of the things that don't make money including those I the most debt. I think AFLW would be the one that is most vulnerable to the cull. It's not something that makes money at the moment and would cost a lot to put on. I can see them putting it on hold and taking a long time to reinstate it.

 

[plugger66]

It will depend on how long it goes and how much the financial backlash from stimulus hits governments. The AFL s a cash cow but a lot of the money they spend including on community footy and grounds is provided by state and federal governments. If TV rights and government money gets tight the AFL might have to trim a lot of the things that don't make money including those I the most debt. I think AFLW would be the one that is most vulnerable to the cull. It's not something that makes money at the moment and would cost a lot to put on. I can see them putting it on hold and taking a long time to reinstate it.

I think the women’s footy is vital to get new people following the game. It would be commercial suicide to get rid of it. What it loses in money on the ground it will make up ten fold off the ground in the coming years.

 

[jwikked]

I reckon when you look at all the clubs, we're pretty lucky with our sponsors and it's not surprising we're pushing Deliveroo on social media almost every single day.
I've been doing my bit, drinking Dare every day. Hopefully more Saints members are giving Deliveroo a try when they'd normally go and eat out somewhere.

 

[Saintbloke]

Got a horrible feeling that we bottom dwelling clubs will not be around as we know it in a couple of years- the current situation will make it very hard to keep propping up failure or large debt into the future. There is another push from Tassie to get a team over there at the expense of a few bottom clubs, and it may well make sense for the AFL to look at it.