Like, learn, hate - Round 19

[Collingwoodity]

I don't disagree with that. I'm happy for Wood to have been suspended for a 3rd offence as that is the rule (although I would still argue the offence wasn't worthy of a report at all, but that's irrelevant here).

The point was just that, in the context of the Brownlow medal, its a rule which has only been brought in this year for the first time - in previous years he'd be facing a fine and nothing more and would still be eligible for the Brownlow.

My argument is that the subjective ruling of 'fairest' changes constantly depending on the MRP's flavour of the month, whilst the 3-2-1 votes system is a constant. For that reason I'd be happy to see it go.

I understand what you are saying but I don't believe this is a flavour of the month thing. The AFL which changes the rules (and their interpretations) year in year out is the problem. That is a different question altogether.

It's not subjective, it's objective.

Either Wood acted within the parameters of the rules or he did not. It is beyond doubt that he did not.

What is subjective is whether an incident is worthy to constitute an offence (or one of the three permitted fines).

Since the circumstances of an incident will never be identical to another (just like real Court and Tribunal cases), there is always going to be a degree of subjectivity as to whether incidents meet the thresholds to amount to an offence.

 

[Sentinel]

I understand what you are saying but I don't believe this is a flavour of the month thing. The AFL which changes the rules (and their interpretations) year in year out is the problem. That is a different question altogether.

It's not subjective, it's objective.

Either Wood acted within the parameters of the rules or he did not. It is beyond doubt that he did not.

What is subjective is whether an incident is worthy to constitute an offence (or one of the three permitted fines).

Since the circumstances of an incident will never be identical to another (just like real Court and Tribunal cases), there is always going to be a degree of subjectivity as to whether incidents meet the thresholds to amount to an offence.

Sorry I think we're arguing the same thing here - bolded is what I'm referring to. Me saying 'flavour of the month' was in reference to the law committee changing the rules for the tribunal themselves year in, year out. I'm not arguing at all that Wood or Hodge should still be eligible because they were only suspended due to the 3 strikes rule, I'm using it as an example of how the rules change so often.

 

[Collingwoodity]

Sorry I think we're arguing the same thing here - bolded is what I'm referring to. Me saying 'flavour of the month' was in reference to the law committee changing the rules for the tribunal themselves year in, year out. I'm not arguing at all that Wood or Hodge should still be eligible because they were only suspended due to the 3 strikes rule, I'm using it as an example of how the rules change so often.

Yeah, we are I think. I think it's more the AFL change the interpretation of a rule before each season to suit their own agenda. It's not so much that the Tribunal subjectively considers the Dangerfield incident one way and the McCarthy incident another, they are correct interpretations of the rules given by the AFL at the start of the season.

I am annoyed with that too but again, it's a different question to whether McCarthy would be entitled under the rules to win the Brownlow.

 

[Acinath]

Liked: Richmond actually winning a 'danger' game that we should have when so many other teams around us couldn't do the same.
Learnt: Ryder is a freak and some Saints players need lessons in set plays before a successful finals campaign is on the cards.
Hated: Riewoldt giving it up, not because he shouldn't (the game is clearly passing him by) but because he's a dead set champion.

 

[mick500]

Liked: Crows coming back from 50 down, then coming again after Collingwood kicked clear by 21 with 10 mins to go away from home. Plenty of players stood up and kicked pressure goals which will serve them well going in to finals.

Learnt: I already know everything.

Hated: The AFL media is just a propaganda machine. Trying to get Dangerfield off. Despicable. Won't be renewing Foxtel next year as a result.

 

[DangerSloane]

I re-learnt that the media are clueless.
Many scribes have Sydney as the form team and making it to the pointy end of the season. They are 10-8.
Many scribes have written the Eagles off and believe their list needs a decent cull at the end of the season. They are 10-8.

Kinda makes sense.
Sydney 8-2 last 10.
Without looking Id estimate west coast at 4-6.

That and West Coast havent looked truly good for about 8 weeks.

 

[chuckafl1]

liked: close games
hated: swans loss to hawks
Learnt: Buckley is not fit to be a coach

 

[Joey longshadow]

Hated: Dangerfield's suspension. I'd be ropable if one of our blokes missed out on a Brownlow because of a clumsy tackle. Everyone knows he's not a dirty player so saying he doesn't pass the "fair" test is simply rubbish.

Gotta agree
It was just clumsy... Not malicious
Deserved a free kick at best
Having said that with the precedent set with others getting rubbed out for similar they kinda had there hands tied
I don't like it though

 

[Kerleys Ghost]

I know Collingwood are shit, but surely Adelaide were in first gear in the 2nd half.

First gear is lower than second.

 

[hk89]

yep 3rd oldest team on the weekend screams 'rebuild' to me

Sounds like some wishful thinking to me. We've still got a high age average because average is a shit measure of central tendency when you have outliers like Burgoyne. The reality is that at the end of this year we'll have done this over the last 12 months:
Out: Hodge, Gibson, S.Mitchell, Lewis
in: T.Mitchell, O'Meara.

And young players now getting regular game time that didn't have regular spots prior to this year:
- Burton, Hardwick, Brand , Stewart, Howe

And other young players we've been experimenting with in the senior side that debuted this year:
- Glass, Miles, Cousins, Willsmore

We'd have one of the youngest backline going around right now, even with Hodge still there.

I know it hurts to lose at home to a side on the rebuild, but that is the reality of it.

 

[PowerForGood]

Happened with Fyfe a couple of years back, will happen again this year, will happen again in the near future. I'd rather they get rid of the fairest tag for the Brownlow, not because I really want to get rid of it but it's become meaningless as the AFL just get around it. Unless someone gives them no choice - i.e. a punch behind play - then they'll find a way to grade it so that the best players only get a fine and remain eligible.

The irony is that if they wanted to get rid of that type of tackle then all they really need to do is give Dangerfield a week and deny him his Brownlow chance. Then the players know there's no wiggle room and will protect the player in the tackle as best they can rather than bringing them to ground forcefully.

I don't necessarily agree with that approach, but if the AFL's intent is to get rid of those tackles then they could easily make a statement here and show they're serious. But they won't, and will rightly be labelled as incompetent.

The only problem with removing the fairest tag in your example is that some player WILL win the Brownlow after having punched someone behind play.

 

[hutchy31]

The only problem with removing the fairest tag in your example is that some player WILL win the Brownlow after having punched someone behind play.

The AFL could always have some sort of restriction - e.g. anyone banned for an intentional act (punch or whatever), or a limit that anyone missing 2 (or 3 or whatever number of weeks is the cut off) is still ineligible.

It gets murky so it's cleaner as it is currently, but the problem is rendering someone ineligible for something that isn't even an intentional act of thuggery. Dangerfield's tackle (as well as a few others this year that ended up in suspensions) would have probably been fine if the player being tackled hadn't ended up with concussion. Grading the result rather than the action is shaky ground imo.

The AFL will ultimately update the process and in years to come people will win the Brownlow having been suspended for a week or two. It's just a matter of time as to when it happens.

 

[ydraw]

If it's sexual assault to do it to a woman, it's sexual assault to do it to a man.

 

[RedWhite&Blue]

I agree with you re removing the 'fairest' clause, but it opens up a new can of worms - what happens to 1997 with Chris Grant and Robert Harvey? Does Shaun McKernan also get handed a Brownlow from 1996?

I'm not sold Danger will get off though. It will be an interesting scene on the night if he is rubbed out and gets the most votes - he'll be putting the medal around the neck of the guy with the 2nd most votes.

Retrospective medals could be awarded.
They changed the rules on tied Brownlow Medals years ago and restrospective medals were awarded. i.e. When there was a tie there was a count back to see who had more 3 vote games.

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

This is the Main Board, not the Humour Board.

Get used to it!

 

[NathanMX]

I agree with you re removing the 'fairest' clause, but it opens up a new can of worms - what happens to 1997 with Chris Grant and Robert Harvey? Does Shaun McKernan also get handed a Brownlow from 1996?

I'm not sold Danger will get off though. It will be an interesting scene on the night if he is rubbed out and gets the most votes - he'll be putting the medal around the neck of the guy with the 2nd most votes.

Shaun was 6 in 1996 so pretty sure he was not eligible

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

I think it's partly how you approach it, no problem with people expressing an opinion. When people call for a coach to be sacked every time their team falls a couple of goals behind it pisses me off though.
It is mostly about my team your right. Supporters at the ground pretty much do the right thing, no problem.
I worry because we're still a developing club. We were awful for the first couple of years but there was always the promise of better, not a certainty, but definitely the opportunity.
At some point in the future we are going to have to have the resilience to cope with bad times, and negativity when we're 3rd on the ladder scares me frankly.
You're probably right though, I take it a bit too seriously.

You need more beer at your ground that will solve your problems!

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

H

No such thing as equal 8th

He meant on points