Lin Jong - Where do we go to from here

[Ozimandas]

Do you know this to be a fact of are you just emoting?

Just my opinion. Big footy is 99.99999% opinion. If you want facts you are in the wrong place!

 

[adsum]

So BF is really BS!!!

 

[Metal]

Does anyone know what is happening with his contract?

If he was as bad as everyone says, why wouldn't he grab the contract offered by the Bulldogs before it's pulled?

If he is not signing, then you'd have to think he is gone.

 

[Unorth]

I too am growing increasingly tired of waiting for his skills to match up to his physical tools. It's frustrating because when you see him playing confidently- such as the VFL grand final or last year's elimination final-it makes you think how useful he can be as a mid. But, those are only 2 games. Much like we were waiting for J.Grant to come good, thinking he'd finally put it together, he never did outside of a few games to close out 2013 to ensure he got a new contract. At some point you have to cut ties.

Although I just have to think...Didn't Jong start playing when he was 15? I mean I'm not aware of when the average AFL footballer first started playing football, but I'd assume you can say that they have up to 10 years more experience than Jong. That's something to consider. Do we have the time to give him another, say, year or two to catch up? That's another thing to consider entirely.

If he just continues to be terrible in the increased opportunities he's had/probably will be getting due to injury, then even though part of me has hope, then send him to Collingwood or wherever wants him. If you have an increased role due to injuries, as a role player, Jong should be making the most of it to cement a spot...let alone playing a season where you want to prove your worth for your next contract.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Funnily enough you only have to look as far as our current captain (Wood) to see the positive potential. Plenty howled Wood down as an athlete that didn't have the footy smarts yet look at him now. And he's only come good since last seasons really at 25(?). Jong's a late starter and is still only 23(?) now. And he's already had a number of very good games. He's no sure thing but personally I hope he retains a spot.

 

[darthbards]

I think Jongs biggest problem last week was as a confidence player he was trying to hard knowing that even though he had been playing well the previous few week's his spot was on the line with numerous injured players coming back. The irony of coarse is we lost just as many players as we have coming back maybe more. I still think he will play this week so hopefully he can calm back down,show some confidence in himself and get back to playing some good solid football.

 

[Metal]

Much of the criticism of Jong is misplaced. His role appears to change during a game and judgements about him should be set against what role he is supposed to be playing.

He has his limitations but he provides respite and flexibility.

Look at him in the middle. When he plays just outside, he is keeping his opponent away from the ball so that the inside mids can have a better chance to get it. He does this repeatedly so I can only assume that that is his role. He is not to charge in and get the ball because others at that point are designated to do this.

During one quarter of each game he seems to be assigned the role of inside mid. It is then he takes the big hits, gets under the packs, keeps the ball in close. Whilst ideally he should be able to distribute more, he is, during this time, giving our other on ballers a rest.

He also plays up forward where he is productive in providing chances to score, but just doesn't get enough of it.

Posters here make the mistake of noticing Jong's errors instead of anyone else's. As an example, he hand balled to the wrong player against St Kilda, yet a number of our players did the same thing against Geelong, yet not a word about them. Jong kicked the ball into the forward line straight to a Saints player, yet we have other players against the Cats such as Stevens who basically did the same thing. None of the vitriol against these players. Just Jong.

Jong gets a go because he has the body that can take the hits if we need him to and he is versatile enough to allow us to move our players around during a game. Players like Honey and Webb just do not offer this.

However when you weigh this up against the fact that Bev seems to rate ball skills very highly, you do wonder if Bev has the patience to see through another year of Jong's development.

Jong is the polar opposite of Bont with his hands and feet in that he has trouble getting them free and so often gets caught in tackles rather than being able to distribute cleanly if at all. You would think that it is an area he would be working on.

It would seem that we have to get another elite ball user into this team, but if we are to lose Jong, we need that player to be a bigger bodied hard nut as well.

The fact he still hasn't signed suggests to me that both he and the club will be looking for opportunities during the trade period, and from my perspective, having some uncontracted players at the end gives us more chips on the table to help us pull off the big deal if we need them.

 

[St 07]

I think we should to try avoid fist pumping the air too much when Collingwood offer us a second rounder with a third round downgrade

 

[Wetdog]

I missed the game on the weekend as I have been travelling. How did Jong perform?

The stats suggest he contributed solidly (1.1 goals 8k; 7h; 1m; 5t) without being heavily involved in the match. Did he use the ball better than last week?

 

[BEaston]

He was better for sure. Still not great. In saying that though, if he had have kicked the first goal I'm sure most would have been happy with his return.

 

[Mattdougie]

Hard to be any worse when you play one of the worst games in football history.

Played nearly a full game in the midfield and only had 15 possies. Had a lock down role and didn't lock anyone down and only tackled his designated man twice. Held play up on 4 seperate occasions and didn't chase hard when not near ball.

But let's not get these points mixed up in man love this forum had for this kid.

We have 13 blokes out this week and he still shouldn't be playing.

That's how he went.

 

[BRWB]

...

Posters here make the mistake of noticing Jong's errors instead of anyone else's. As an example, he hand balled to the wrong player against St Kilda, yet a number of our players did the same thing against Geelong, yet not a word about them. Jong kicked the ball into the forward line straight to a Saints player, yet we have other players against the Cats such as Stevens who basically did the same thing. None of the vitriol against these players. Just Jong...

That was a really measured post and agree with some of it.

As one of the posters who is not a Jong fan, I will say this Jong had nine clangers against St Kilda. Nine.

He is noticed more because he stuffs up more often than most. As you say his ball skills are atrocious. And this manifests in many ways from dropping handballs, not picking up the ball cleanly, not disposing of it cleanly, and giving away frees for throwing or holding the ball.

Hunter is cussed out but his clangers (higher in number than Jong), and his goal kicking (worse than Jong) is tolerated because his positives far outweigh his negatives. Hunter guts runs and provides linkages defensively and accumulates an awesome amount of possession - meaning he will turn it over more often. Stevens is another whose good - higher possessions, stronger, better tackler, etc - outweighs his bad (poor awareness and kicking at times)

Jong's 'good' is nothing that special - his numbers are low, he can take a hit, he can be offensively quick, he can take the odd mark and kick the odd goal - is nothing that many other players can't provide without the downside of his poor positioning,'poor defensive running, poor production, poor vision and execution and incredibly poor ball handling that breaks down far too many scoring opportunities.

Sure his athletic traits mean he will do the odd good thing or even play the odd good game. But the bad far outweighs the good IMO.

 

[Metal]

That was a really measured post and agree with some of it.

As one of the posters who is not a Jong fan, I will say this Jong had nine clangers against St Kilda. Nine.

He is noticed more because he stuffs up more often than most. As you say his ball skills are atrocious. And this manifests in many ways from dropping handballs, not picking up the ball cleanly, not disposing of it cleanly, and giving away frees for throwing or holding the ball.

Hunter is cussed out but his clangers (higher in number than Jong), and his goal kicking (worse than Jong) is tolerated because his positives far outweigh his negatives. Hunter guts runs and provides linkages defensively and accumulates an awesome amount of possession - meaning he will turn it over more often. Stevens is another whose good - higher possessions, stronger, better tackler, etc - outweighs his bad (poor awareness and kicking at times)

Jong's 'good' is nothing that special - his numbers are low, he can take a hit, he can be offensively quick, he can take the odd mark and kick the odd goal - is nothing that many other players can't provide without the downside of his poor positioning,'poor defensive running, poor production, poor vision and execution and incredibly poor ball handling that breaks down far too many scoring opportunities.

Sure his athletic traits mean he will do the odd good thing or even play the odd good game. But the bad far outweighs the good IMO.

I have liked this post because it is well argued with examples that are hard to disagree with. I have given Jong the benefit of the doubt thus far and think he is an undoubted talent who can play a role for us, but I think to win a premiership, we need to keep improving on the stock we have, and if that means some of our much loved players fall by the wayside, then so be it. Quite clearly, in the area of disposal, we have to get better.......and one way to do that it is to find out if our current players can improve by giving them plenty of game time (Jong has improved but he still makes errors) and / or turn over our list until we get what we want.

 

[compact72]

Don't mind Jong, but he isn't improving too much.

Last aeyr before his hand injury he was on the fire. Hasn't returned to that form since.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Don't mind Jong, but he isn't improving too much.

Last aeyr before his hand injury he was on the fire. Hasn't returned to that form since.

Wasn't just the hand injury, he had groin issues as to which he needed a groin reconstruction at the end of the year.

It's a shame he's not the player this year that he was in the VFL Finals series of 2014 and the first six or so weeks of 2015 where he was a lot better than he has been this year.

 

[Dogs54]

The question for me regarding Jong is his IQ. Does he have the ability to learn from the games he plays and instructions from the coaches, if he can then I would keep, if not he's gone.

I don't question his physical abilities, attitude or hardness at the contest.

 

[stefoid]

Much of the criticism of Jong is misplaced. His role appears to change during a game and judgements about him should be set against what role he is supposed to be playing.

He has his limitations but he provides respite and flexibility.

Look at him in the middle. When he plays just outside, he is keeping his opponent away from the ball so that the inside mids can have a better chance to get it. He does this repeatedly so I can only assume that that is his role. He is not to charge in and get the ball because others at that point are designated to do this.

During one quarter of each game he seems to be assigned the role of inside mid. It is then he takes the big hits, gets under the packs, keeps the ball in close. Whilst ideally he should be able to distribute more, he is, during this time, giving our other on ballers a rest.

He also plays up forward where he is productive in providing chances to score, but just doesn't get enough of it.

Posters here make the mistake of noticing Jong's errors instead of anyone else's. As an example, he hand balled to the wrong player against St Kilda, yet a number of our players did the same thing against Geelong, yet not a word about them. Jong kicked the ball into the forward line straight to a Saints player, yet we have other players against the Cats such as Stevens who basically did the same thing. None of the vitriol against these players. Just Jong.

Jong gets a go because he has the body that can take the hits if we need him to and he is versatile enough to allow us to move our players around during a game. Players like Honey and Webb just do not offer this.

However when you weigh this up against the fact that Bev seems to rate ball skills very highly, you do wonder if Bev has the patience to see through another year of Jong's development.

Jong is the polar opposite of Bont with his hands and feet in that he has trouble getting them free and so often gets caught in tackles rather than being able to distribute cleanly if at all. You would think that it is an area he would be working on.

It would seem that we have to get another elite ball user into this team, but if we are to lose Jong, we need that player to be a bigger bodied hard nut as well.

The fact he still hasn't signed suggests to me that both he and the club will be looking for opportunities during the trade period, and from my perspective, having some uncontracted players at the end gives us more chips on the table to help us pull off the big deal if we need them.

Not meaning to take the piss but your list of accomplishments is nothing but the minimum I would expect from every player taking the field. "gives the other onballers a rest"?

My problem is he doesnt play to his strengths - his burst and athleticism. Which leaves him as a low-production inside mid with poor disposal and an inconsistent attitude to the contest. By that last I dont doubt his courage - when he does go, he goes as hard as anyone - I just think he lacks the instinctive attack on the ball and opposition. Sometimes he just ball watches for a split second and play passes him by before he can react. I noticed this on half a dozen occasions v Geelong.

In my mind he is already behind Clay and Dunkley, and its only the mounting injuries to our mids that have him in the side. The number of fit, big bodied mids ahead of him now is Bont, Macrae, Wallis, Libba, Smith, Dunkley and Stevens.

 

[Zgope1]

i like Jong. Not best 22 but not a bad guy to have playing when we're down a few. Has had some nice games in the contest at afl level this year and honestly our season is resting on him, Stevens and Dunkley. If they lift we can jag a home final and bring in some quality after the bye for a hot crack at an inferior side

 

[Jen Geoffings]

Much of the criticism of Jong is misplaced. His role appears to change during a game and judgements about him should be set against what role he is supposed to be playing.

He has his limitations but he provides respite and flexibility.

Look at him in the middle. When he plays just outside, he is keeping his opponent away from the ball so that the inside mids can have a better chance to get it. He does this repeatedly so I can only assume that that is his role. He is not to charge in and get the ball because others at that point are designated to do this.

During one quarter of each game he seems to be assigned the role of inside mid. It is then he takes the big hits, gets under the packs, keeps the ball in close. Whilst ideally he should be able to distribute more, he is, during this time, giving our other on ballers a rest.

He also plays up forward where he is productive in providing chances to score, but just doesn't get enough of it.

Posters here make the mistake of noticing Jong's errors instead of anyone else's. As an example, he hand balled to the wrong player against St Kilda, yet a number of our players did the same thing against Geelong, yet not a word about them. Jong kicked the ball into the forward line straight to a Saints player, yet we have other players against the Cats such as Stevens who basically did the same thing. None of the vitriol against these players. Just Jong.

Jong gets a go because he has the body that can take the hits if we need him to and he is versatile enough to allow us to move our players around during a game. Players like Honey and Webb just do not offer this.

However when you weigh this up against the fact that Bev seems to rate ball skills very highly, you do wonder if Bev has the patience to see through another year of Jong's development.

Jong is the polar opposite of Bont with his hands and feet in that he has trouble getting them free and so often gets caught in tackles rather than being able to distribute cleanly if at all. You would think that it is an area he would be working on.

It would seem that we have to get another elite ball user into this team, but if we are to lose Jong, we need that player to be a bigger bodied hard nut as well.

The fact he still hasn't signed suggests to me that both he and the club will be looking for opportunities during the trade period, and from my perspective, having some uncontracted players at the end gives us more chips on the table to help us pull off the big deal if we need them.

This is a great post. Says what I've been clumsily grappling with in my mind about Jongy but unable to articulate. I keep wondering whether he just can't get into the game or whether he's playing to instruction (as best anyone can in a split second game)

It's no wonder he looks at other clubs if this is the role we've given him and the fact we accept him shopping himself around suggests that there's been an open conversation about where we see him.

If our vision for him is limited to this role and he's better than that (which I suspect he is btw) then let's trade. Or keep him, and continue to give him opportunity to step up and grow out of the role, if there isn't a trade to make.

 

[Next Waiting]

Made of the right stuff. Marvelous. Even those who pretend to support the dogs might have appreciated "big game" Jongy's effort tonight.

 

[JTCWBFC]

I've always been tough on Jong, and I'm still not sold, but he was very good tonight. Well done mate.

 

[ringa5]

Smashed twice shook it off like a trooper.Reminded me of Mitch wallis's dad.Steve

 

[Igloo]

Played a very good game tonight.

 

[lachy]

Was good tonight but certainly not great. Needs to build on the performance

 

[Ozil]

Liked his game a lot.

So tired of the "not a natural footballer" schtick. He's certainly got a lot of flaws in his game and I don't think he's in our best side, but I could name plenty of white guys who aren't 'natural footballers' (i.e. fringe players) but don't cop the same tag week-in week-out.

Hope he can build on it. Has a sense of occasion, and we're coming up to that time of year.