Lin Jong - Where do we go to from here

[Mattdougie]

What team has had there best 22 players on GF day or the whole season??

None but they don't have their 32nd best player tuning around in the midfield


But you blokes keep dreaming we can make a gf with VFL players and I will hope we move them on and get blokes good enough to get us there

 

[StringyDog]

You don't get me

A team that has him in it isn't good enough to make a grand final IMO.

Hawthorn don't have midfield role players do they? They don't bring spuds in to fill mid spots they use them as back up rucks backs snd forwards NOT mids mate.

Yeah you are right Jonathon Simpkin, Will Langford, Billy Hartung are elite midfielders not role players.....

 

[Mattdougie]

Yeah you are right Jonathon Simpkin, Will Langford, Billy Hartung are elite midfielders not role players.....

Haha like they played significicabt time in the midfield lol

Jesus the excuses for this bloke just keep coming lol.

Langford did and the year he did he was VERY good not just a role player.

Continue pumping up the potato can't wait til he has a different jumper on and then listen to you blokes tell me how good he is lol

 

[StringyDog]

Haha like they played significicabt time in the midfield lol

Jesus the excuses for this bloke just keep coming lol.

Langford did and the year he did he was VERY good not just a role player.

Continue pumping up the potato can't wait til he has a different jumper on and then listen to you blokes tell me how good he is lol

I am not pumping him up, I think Jong should be traded this year and I don't think we will play in GF but it won't be because of 1 player that is just stupid, just pulling you up on crap you post, Langford is a huge potato, barely played half the games in last 2 years cause he is not good enough, Both Hartung and Simpkin were playing midfield, just because they played it badly doesn't mean they weren't playing it.

 

[Senor Ed]

MD just because we don't hate the guy like you do, doesn't mean we consider him as an integral part of our side. It's not black and white. He has done a decent job as an inexprienced midfielder in a team decimated by injury. If there was someone who could play instead of him and provide better output than him at the moment, they would be playing. He has a role to play and currency in the market.

 

[Mattdougie]

I am not pumping him up, I think Jong should be traded this year and I don't think we will play in GF but it won't be because of 1 player that is just stupid, just pulling you up on crap you post, Langford is a huge potato, barely played half the games in last 2 years cause he is not good enough, Both Hartung and Simpkin were playing midfield, just because they played it badly doesn't mean they weren't playing it.

We won't not make a grand final BECAUSE of Jong I've said that 10000 times.

But if he is playing our team isn't good enough to make a grand final, that's isn't Jongs fault ive never blamed the kid for that and never will

 

[dogsfan]

We won't not make a grand final BECAUSE of Jong I've said that 10000 times.

But if he is playing our team isn't good enough to make a grand final, that's isn't Jongs fault ive never blamed the kid for that and never will

So if he stays and doesn't make our best 22 next year when we make the GF you won't have a problem if he's playing for Footscray in the VFL?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

This is what I don't understand.

For a person who can clearly understand football, Mattdougie, why do you hold such an extreme and unique opinion of Jong as a player?

I'm not even going to go into the bullying and abusive statements of a player who currently plays for a team that you supposedly support, that's an entirely different matter, but for the time being

I have literally never heard statements, either in person or online, as extreme against the consensus than I have with you and Jong.

It flies in the face of all rational thought and evidence. Never mind the blatantly incorrect statements such as we can't win games with him in the team, I'm just going your overall opinion of him as a player.

On evidence we have:

• Him demonstrating elite performance at VFL level, showing he's a "class above", such as in the 2014 Finals series and the one game he played there after his return from suspension, forcing his way back into the AFL team where he's remained ever since. This shows that he's demonstrated he's head and shoulders above the players who are a teensy bit below AFL level.
• All basic, advanced and analytical statistics. These are statistics that you over the course of this thread and others have dismissed with brash statements like "statistics can mean anything" or "you just have to look at his positioning at stoppages" and other vague statements. I could go on and on about the benefits of using statistics to help an informed opinion, but that's clearly no use here nor the point of of this post.
• The eye-test and the wisdom of crowds delivering an almost-unanimous opinion that he is a fringe player who has performed solidly and admirably in a multitude of roles, especially recently when he's had greater responsibility in the absence of others.

It just absolutely staggers me that, unless there's some other agenda driving behind your opinion (is there something personal that we're not aware of? Dare I mention racism?), a person like you, who clearly has an understanding of football as a whole, the history of the game, the functions of how its played, how modern list management occurs, the basic positions, tactics and balance of team strengths, have such an extreme view that is so much different to the absolute consensus of others on this board who also have an informed understanding of football as a whole.

 

[Ghenghis]

 

[House_of_Dahl]

This is what I don't understand.

For a person who can clearly understand football, Mattdougie, why do you hold such an extreme and unique opinion of Jong as a player?

I'm not even going to go into the bullying and abusive statements of a player who currently plays for a team that you supposedly support, that's an entirely different matter, but for the time being

I have literally never heard statements, either in person or online, as extreme against the consensus than I have with you and Jong.

It flies in the face of all rational thought and evidence. Never mind the blatantly incorrect statements such as we can't win games with him in the team, I'm just going your overall opinion of him as a player.

On evidence we have:

• Him demonstrating elite performance at VFL level, showing he's a "class above", such as in the 2014 Finals series and the one game he played there after his return from suspension, forcing his way back into the AFL team where he's remained ever since. This shows that he's demonstrated he's head and shoulders above the players who are a teensy bit below AFL level.
• All basic, advanced and analytical statistics. These are statistics that you over the course of this thread and others have dismissed with brash statements like "statistics can mean anything" or "you just have to look at his positioning at stoppages" and other vague statements. I could go on and on about the benefits of using statistics to help an informed opinion, but that's clearly no use here nor the point of of this post.
• The eye-test and the wisdom of crowds delivering an almost-unanimous opinion that he is a fringe player who has performed solidly and admirably in a multitude of roles, especially recently when he's had greater responsibility in the absence of others.

It just absolutely staggers me that, unless there's some other agenda driving behind your opinion (is there something personal that we're not aware of? Dare I mention racism?), a person like you, who clearly has an understanding of football as a whole, the history of the game, the functions of how its played, how modern list management occurs, the basic positions, tactics and balance of team strengths, have such an extreme view that is so much different to the absolute consensus of others on this board who also have an informed understanding of football as a whole.

Mate - chips, roast, mash - a potato is a potato how ever you chop it up.

Always said he was good at VFL.

Stats are BS (except for the one that says he doesn't get enough possessions)

My eye test says he's crap - rewatch St Kilda game (but none others).

I'm not racist, but he was recruited because he's Asian.

Good on him for having a crack but we'll never win a game, beat a finals team, win a final, make the GF with him in the team.

Am I doing it right?

 

[Senor Ed]

Mate - chips, roast, mash - a potato is a potato how ever you chop it up.

Always said he was good at VFL.

Stats are BS (except for the one that says he doesn't get enough possessions)

My eye test says he's crap - rewatch St Kilda game (but none others).

I'm not racist, but he was recruited because he's Asian.

Good on him for having a crack but we'll never win a game, beat a finals team, win a final, make the GF with him in the team.

Am I doing it right?

Think you posted from your wrong account mate

 

[LondonBulldog]

This is what I don't understand.

For a person who can clearly understand football, Mattdougie, why do you hold such an extreme and unique opinion of Jong as a player?

I'm not even going to go into the bullying and abusive statements of a player who currently plays for a team that you supposedly support, that's an entirely different matter, but for the time being

I have literally never heard statements, either in person or online, as extreme against the consensus than I have with you and Jong.

It flies in the face of all rational thought and evidence. Never mind the blatantly incorrect statements such as we can't win games with him in the team, I'm just going your overall opinion of him as a player.

On evidence we have:

• Him demonstrating elite performance at VFL level, showing he's a "class above", such as in the 2014 Finals series and the one game he played there after his return from suspension, forcing his way back into the AFL team where he's remained ever since. This shows that he's demonstrated he's head and shoulders above the players who are a teensy bit below AFL level.
• All basic, advanced and analytical statistics. These are statistics that you over the course of this thread and others have dismissed with brash statements like "statistics can mean anything" or "you just have to look at his positioning at stoppages" and other vague statements. I could go on and on about the benefits of using statistics to help an informed opinion, but that's clearly no use here nor the point of of this post.
• The eye-test and the wisdom of crowds delivering an almost-unanimous opinion that he is a fringe player who has performed solidly and admirably in a multitude of roles, especially recently when he's had greater responsibility in the absence of others.

It just absolutely staggers me that, unless there's some other agenda driving behind your opinion (is there something personal that we're not aware of? Dare I mention racism?), a person like you, who clearly has an understanding of football as a whole, the history of the game, the functions of how its played, how modern list management occurs, the basic positions, tactics and balance of team strengths, have such an extreme view that is so much different to the absolute consensus of others on this board who also have an informed understanding of football as a whole.

A lot of people are stubborn in this world and wont admit when their wrong. They prefer to go to the extreme opposite, making themselves look like a goose. Bit sad and boring really that he gets more enjoyment out of constant bagging one particular player. My last post on the matter.

 

[Floridog]

A particular St Kilda game seems to pop up on this thread regularly and as I am really trying to pretend that game never happened I wish you people would stop bringing it up. But since I'm on that subject I would just like to point out that Lin Jong was just one of about 22 spuds running around in the red, white and blue that day. There is no possible way he can be singled out as the reason we lost that one.

 

[Mattdougie]

Mate - chips, roast, mash - a potato is a potato how ever you chop it up.

Always said he was good at VFL.

Stats are BS (except for the one that says he doesn't get enough possessions)

My eye test says he's crap - rewatch St Kilda game (but none others).

I'm not racist, but he was recruited because he's Asian.

Good on him for having a crack but we'll never win a game, beat a finals team, win a final, make the GF with him in the team.

Am I doing it right?

Hahaha not bad a potato is a potato but this week he is a sweet potato coz I'm happy

Pretty much what you said but the racist thing doesn't carry I have Asian blood myself so good attempt to label me by many but not really working.

And making a negative statement about Jongs initial recruitment(that a few have agreed with) does not make me or anyone else racist, thats a weak argument used by simplistic people to define those that offend them.

And you crossed win a final out, we haven't done that yet.

But keep on throwing out the apparently good stats and thinking less than 20 possessions and 3 clearances for a midfielder is a GREAT game. I hope he plays many many great games for another team now THAT will make me happy

 

[Scenester]

Given that this thread was started to discuss what to do re: Lin Jong following the Collingwood visit incident, why is it still open since it's now been exactly the same for 40 pages? The club has clearly decided that even if he is going to leave at the end of the year that he'll still be given the opportunity to play in the seniors until the end of the season whenever he deserves his spot.

This thread clearly riles people who are absolutely sick and tired of apparent supporters piling endless, irrational criticism on one of their own players.

 

[Mattdougie]

A lot of people are stubborn in this world and wont admit when their wrong. They prefer to go to the extreme opposite, making themselves look like a goose. Bit sad and boring really that he gets more enjoyment out of constant bagging one particular player. My last post on the matter.

One too many

 

[Scenester]

A particular St Kilda game seems to pop up on this thread regularly and as I am really trying to pretend that game never happened I wish you people would stop bringing it up. But since I'm on that subject I would just like to point out that Lin Jong was just one of about 22 spuds running around in the red, white and blue that day. There is no possible way he can be singled out as the reason we lost that one.

Exactly.

 

[Scenester]

This is what I don't understand.

For a person who can clearly understand football, Mattdougie, why do you hold such an extreme and unique opinion of Jong as a player?

I'm not even going to go into the bullying and abusive statements of a player who currently plays for a team that you supposedly support, that's an entirely different matter, but for the time being

I have literally never heard statements, either in person or online, as extreme against the consensus than I have with you and Jong.

It flies in the face of all rational thought and evidence. Never mind the blatantly incorrect statements such as we can't win games with him in the team, I'm just going your overall opinion of him as a player.

On evidence we have:

• Him demonstrating elite performance at VFL level, showing he's a "class above", such as in the 2014 Finals series and the one game he played there after his return from suspension, forcing his way back into the AFL team where he's remained ever since. This shows that he's demonstrated he's head and shoulders above the players who are a teensy bit below AFL level.
• All basic, advanced and analytical statistics. These are statistics that you over the course of this thread and others have dismissed with brash statements like "statistics can mean anything" or "you just have to look at his positioning at stoppages" and other vague statements. I could go on and on about the benefits of using statistics to help an informed opinion, but that's clearly no use here nor the point of of this post.
• The eye-test and the wisdom of crowds delivering an almost-unanimous opinion that he is a fringe player who has performed solidly and admirably in a multitude of roles, especially recently when he's had greater responsibility in the absence of others.

It just absolutely staggers me that, unless there's some other agenda driving behind your opinion (is there something personal that we're not aware of? Dare I mention racism?), a person like you, who clearly has an understanding of football as a whole, the history of the game, the functions of how its played, how modern list management occurs, the basic positions, tactics and balance of team strengths, have such an extreme view that is so much different to the absolute consensus of others on this board who also have an informed understanding of football as a whole.

I'd been wondering for a long time if the irrational hatred wasn't motivated by racism, but I wasn't going to say it, so I'm glad that you did.

 

[Mattdougie]

A particular St Kilda game seems to pop up on this thread regularly and as I am really trying to pretend that game never happened I wish you people would stop bringing it up. But since I'm on that subject I would just like to point out that Lin Jong was just one of about 22 spuds running around in the red, white and blue that day. There is no possible way he can be singled out as the reason we lost that one.

Haha but when we win he can be lauded at a reason we won?? Lol

Wow and people think I only look at one side.

9 clangers before half time!! NINE

LOL unbelievable. We wanna build a bloody monument to him when he plays ok against the worst team in the league but NOOOOOO let's not bring up the worst game in history shall we! If you do that your not a supporter or irrational or blah blah

And why on gods green earth do people continue to tag me about this bloke??????

Everyone knows how I feel WHY KEEP ASKING ME AND TRYING TO BE HEROES WHEN HE DOESNT STINK IT UP AND DIRECT POSTS AT ME?? and then sook when I respond??

Lol seriously you just have to laugh. Your not changing my mind he is shite accept it move on!!!!!!

 

[Mattdougie]

I'd been wondering for a long time if the irrational hatred wasn't motivated by racism, but I wasn't going to say it, so I'm glad that you did.

So now I'm racist? Lol

I have Asian blood on my family and my brother is married to a lovely Asian girl.

I have 4 Asian boys in my team and I'm racist??

Simple minds look for simple conclusions

 

[Scenester]

Yeah right MD, every player in a GF team is a champion. I remember Shane Ellen kicked 5 goals for Adelaide in the 97 GF, lucky he was a champion. Jong was in our top 5 in our final last year.

What you don't seem to understand is a team is made up of many individuals who gel together as a team. They don't all need to be stars, look at Hawthorn and some of their recycled players. They all had a role and the played well together. Jong is not going to be the reason why or why we don't make a GF. If you can't see that your not much of a footy observer.

And Gary Moorcroft, who was a part of Essendon's 2000 premiership team, that many consider one of the greatest teams of all time. Essendon would have replaced Moorcroft with Brad Johnson if they'd had the chance, any day of the week.

 

[Mattdougie]

And Gary Moorcroft, who was a part of Essendon's 2000 premiership team, that many consider one of the greatest teams of all time. Essendon would have replaced Moorcroft with Brad Johnson if they'd had the chance, any day of the week.

And Moorcroft was a forward not a mid and Jong a would never even got a sniff at that team

Your point? Don't worry it's wrong anyway

 

[ThirdLegUp]

So now I'm racist? Lol

I have Asian blood on in my family and my brother is married to a lovely Asian girl.

I have 4 Asian boys in my team and I'm racist??

Simple minds look for simple conclusions

lol personally i love the MD why are you so extreme, then extreme accusation of racism. Followed by an extreme typo

 

[Scenester]

And Moorcroft was a forward not a mid and Jong a would never even got a sniff at that team

Your point? Don't worry it's wrong anyway

Ah. So it's okay to have 'potatoes' in your team as long as they're not midfielders, I understand.

 

[Mattdougie]

Ah. So it's okay to have 'potatoes' in your team as long as they're not midfielders, I understand.

Moorcroft was a handy goal sneak in a very good team not a bloke playing only due to injury but keep flapping for comparison. You will come up with Damien Monkhouse some

But nice of you to assume I'm racist and then ignore my rebuttal.

Very Norf of you so brave