Lions training next week

[Hollow Knight]

What will we get for Rischitelli?

Does he just leave to the GC for nothing or do we get a draft pick?

The AFL will give out compensatory picks base don a formula that weights in various factors such as original draft position, B&F finishes, age, experience etc...

But as Notting said, don't get your hopes up for anything good.

Matthew Primus came second in Fitzroy's final B&F and looked very much like a future gun (and apart from some bad injury luck, he was certainly in the elite ruckmen of the competition for a good 3 or 4 years at Port)

When he said no to Brisbane, the AFL gave us pick 26 as compensation.

Not sure if the compensation formula is similar now, but that isn't a great return for a future gun ruckman. I imagine Rischitelli would command significantly less.

Still, it's better than nothing, and good drafting can get around these things. We took Tim Notting with the Matthew Primus pick.

 

[Grimreepah]

Riska wanting to go to the GC is an assumption that seems to be based on some joining of fairly sporadic dots.

We get a pick. Not a good one though. I'd say Rischa would be in the 40 to 60 range in compensation.

A year is a long time in footy, but at this stage I'd say 30 to 40.

Edit: based on worth, not some formula.

 

[Grimreepah]

Hopefully it'll be a strong draft next year.

Why's that?

 

[Axel.]

Why's that?

So at pick 30-40 there will still be quality players around.

 

[Crazy_Webby]

So at pick 30-40 there will still be quality players around.

From what i understand you dont use it that year, but can chose which year you want to use it.

 

[Grimreepah]

So at pick 30-40 there will still be quality players around.

But then every other club would get quality players too. Assuming we have a decent finish on the ladder, and with GC entering the draft, we are going to be at a significant disadvantage in terms of getting the better players. GC will be hoping it is a strong draft, the bottom 4/8 will be hoping it is a strong draft, but for us IMO the weaker the draft the better.

 

[Antman78]

From what i understand you dont use it that year, but can chose which year you want to use it.

I Reckon use it as a father and son pick for Daryl White's kid hopefully he'll be of age within the 5 year window, that's if we lose anyone. AFL.com i.e Ashcroft indicated they were after defenders wonder if this changes our thinking on Rischa.

 

[Axel.]

But then every other club would get quality players too. Assuming we have a decent finish on the ladder, and with GC entering the draft, we are going to be at a significant disadvantage in terms of getting the better players. GC will be hoping it is a strong draft, the bottom 4/8 will be hoping it is a strong draft, but for us IMO the weaker the draft the better.

Ah, in that case a weaker draft would be better for us.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

If we can survive the Gold Coast recruitment assault with Rischitelli as our only casualty, I'll consider it a massive win.

I had a bad dream the other night that Merrett was playing for a different club.

 

[blynd_freddie]

I had a bad dream the other night that Merrett was playing for a different club.

As my Austrian friend Blynd_Freud-ie would say “Dreams are often most profound when they seem the most crazy.” Very interesting Mr Belgian… so which team were you now supporting.

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

Riska wanting to go to the GC is an assumption that seems to be based on some joining of fairly sporadic dots.

Agreed Rischa didn't want too leave the Lions this season fullstop.
Yet it is interpreted that he will leave for the Gold Coast at the end of 2010?
Has knocked back other offers in the past & has remained loyal.

Lots of water to go under the bridge yet, but based on past history the conclusion being made may well be misguided.

 

[Jorgo]

Does the compensation pick from the AFL work if the player is uncontracted? Or only for contracted players?

My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that Rischa will be uncontracted come the end of the year.

 

[Quigley]

It applies to uncontracted players. If a player was contracted then GC have to go through the usual trade process and can trade away the swag of draft picks they currently have.

Haven't GC come out and said that they are going to be steering away from the Lions players. I got the impression they did not want to start with early antagonism.

 

[Gibbo_88]

Could not think of a better way to start a rivalry if they took one of our players. Someone like Patfull, Drummond or Merrett would definitely force me to hate the GC team.

 

[Jorgo]

It applies to uncontracted players. If a player was contracted then GC have to go through the usual trade process and can trade away the swag of draft picks they currently have.

Thanks for clearing that up for me

 

[POBT]

If Voss sees that Riska is someone he wants to keep on the list, then you can be pretty sure that he'll pull out the stops to rebuild the relationship. If he's not someone who we're interested in long term, then let's see out 2010 and go our separate ways.

My gut feeling is that we'll know in about July what the future holds. A good first 12 weeks of the year from Riska will probably show that the parties have kissed and made up. Anything else and things will be looking rocky.

 

[POBT]

I had a bad dream the other night that Merrett was playing for a different club.

As I have said elsewhere, he makes a lot of sense for the GC's first captain.

 

[seanc1971]

If Voss sees that Riska is someone he wants to keep on the list, then you can be pretty sure that he'll pull out the stops to rebuild the relationship. If he's not someone who we're interested in long term, then let's see out 2010 and go our separate ways.

My gut feeling is that we'll know in about July what the future holds. A good first 12 weeks of the year from Riska will probably show that the parties have kissed and made up. Anything else and things will be looking rocky.

I dare say that the nano-second the Lions use him as trade bait again, he will be out the door...

As an aside; I do think that it is terribly hypocritical for the AFL to be against free agency for players; yet give the clubs the latitude to "float" contracted players out there for trade.

Riska would have understood that AFL footy is a business these days; and there would have been no hard feelings that Riska did not want to leave given that Vossy got his man in Fev anyway.

Having not read the rest of the thread in a great deal of detail, this may be a repeat... But, if Riska does not get significant time in the seniors, it will send a clear message to him that he is not wanted and I think he will seek a trade himself.

 

[Hollow Knight]

As an aside; I do think that it is terribly hypocritical for the AFL to be against free agency for players; yet give the clubs the latitude to "float" contracted players out there for trade.

In what way?

 

[seanc1971]

In what way?

They do not want to give players the freedom to move at will, but give the clubs the freedom to delist them at will (yes, within reason) - but the odds are stacked firmly in favour of the clubs. It just seems to be a particularly uneven playing field to me.

(I am prepared to admit that I do not understand the inner workings of the clubs in a lot of ways... So I am happy to be wrong.)

 

[Hollow Knight]

They do not want to give players the freedom to move at will, but give the clubs the freedom to delist them at will (yes, within reason) - but the odds are stacked firmly in favour of the clubs. It just seems to be a particularly uneven playing field to me.

Being traded isn't really being delisted. Your contract is guaranteed and you get onto another list.

It isn't an uneven playing field because trading is a facility available to players as well as clubs (see Chris Judd/Des Headland). Contracts are security for both parties. When a player is out of contract, the situation is entirely different and the player arguably has more power (provided other teams are interested). The only thing that protects clubs in that situation is the hope that the players chosen destination doesn't have a high PSD pick... allowing them to secure a trade.

Free agency (which only applies to uncontracted players) is a massive worry IMO. Without some sort of compensatory pick system, it is going to hurt a lot of clubs, including ours.

 

[seanc1971]

Being traded isn't really being delisted. Your contract is guaranteed and you get onto another list.

It isn't an uneven playing field because trading is a facility available to players as well as clubs (see Chris Judd/Des Headland). Contracts are security for both parties. When a player is out of contract, the situation is entirely different and the player arguably has more power (provided other teams are interested). The only thing that protects clubs in that situation is the hope that the players chosen destination doesn't have a high PSD pick... allowing them to secure a trade.

Free agency (which only applies to uncontracted players) is a massive worry IMO. Without some sort of compensatory pick system, it is going to hurt a lot of clubs, including ours.

Fair enough. I agree that the lack of compensatory picks will hurt a lot of clubs. Having said that, the salary cap should go a fair way to regulating that considering that a club will not be able to throw money at players like we see French clubs doing in rugby union.

I still believe that a player has a lot less power in a trade situation; the club can use a player as "trade bait" to guage interest. If a player requests a trade, he had pretty much better make sure that he is willing to leave. Just seems uneven.

I agree with you that my original "hypocrisy" comment is not correct... but I still reckon there is uneven-ness...

Sorry mods for the OT posts...

 

[Hollow Knight]

Fair enough. I agree that the lack of compensatory picks will hurt a lot of clubs. Having said that, the salary cap should go a fair way to regulating that considering that a club will not be able to throw money at players like we see French clubs doing in rugby union.

The AFL would have to get dead serious about the salary cap if free agency comes in. No more of this Visy Environmental Spokesman bullshit. Of course, then they leave themselves open to restraint of trade claims. The AFLPA can't have it both ways and have to offer something in return. Compliance with a tighter salary cap has to be part of the deal.

I still believe that a player has a lot less power in a trade situation; the club can use a player as "trade bait" to guage interest. If a player requests a trade, he had pretty much better make sure that he is willing to leave. Just seems uneven.

Does the AFL have an obligation to find a balance between players and clubs, or to do what is best for the game? They need to hold off on free agency as long as possible IMO. It's a massive swing of power in favour of players. Once that is achieved, the AFLPA, being a union won't rest on their laurels. They'll start fighting for more... including relaxing the restrictions on free agency. Keep stalling Vlad.

Anyway, I don't think it is as uneven at present as you suggest. Players/managers hold the "go home" trump card to bump up contracts. We see it all the time.

 

[chopperduck]

I agree with TBD, free agency in games such as the NFL has some advantages, but the result is it turns into a mercenary league. Perhaps clubs / players just need to do contracting better. Before they sign that 4 year deal, make sure they aren't going to want to be traded 2 years in. There should also be more incentives to retaining players or having players from rookie list and developing their own talent.

This is the workplace AFL footballers work in and these are the conditions. We shouldn't be changing the soul of the work place so they do as they wish. Id like to work my own hours and have breaks when i like, but i can't see reforms happening at my work place allowing me to do that.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Yep, for professional sporting leagues to work, there need to be structures in place that don't necessarily exist in the "real world". It's simply the economics of professional sport.

Players need to realise the amazing opportunities that the game offers them and be willing to make some sacrifices. That said, it is only a matter of time before some Gen-Y brat with entitlement issues gets drafted to the "wrong" club and takes the entire system to court.

It's no secret that Daniel Rich would have given his right foot (doesn't need it anyway) to play for the Eagles. But it didn't work out. He copped it like a man and came to Brisbane, found that he loves the club and his teammates and extends his contract. Ditto Mitch Clark/Simon Black/Luke Power etc... more of that please.