List Mgmt. List Management Thread

[1990crow]

Landing Neale may mean the Lions can afford Bailey.

Would think if we have the choice between the 2, we aim for the younger player.

Maybe. He may not be on much, and may not impact. Brisbane would be assessing the deal over 7 years when Neale wouldn't be there anyway.

 

[Mostyn]

Brisbane seem to have been pretty clear on the salary line they won't cross.

Sounds like $1.4m+ will get you Bailey, if you can get his signature.

 

[BRL121]

Brisbane seem to have been pretty clear on the salary line they won't cross.

Sounds like $1.4m+ will get you Bailey, if you can get his signature.

He's not worth it. Also, the effect on team harmony would be a negative.

 

[1990crow]

He's not worth it. Also, the effect on team harmony would be a negative.

What's the alternative. Internal growth?

 

[GreyCrow]

He's not worth it. Also, the effect on team harmony would be a negative.

How are you valuing his worth?

 

[BRL121]

What's the alternative. Internal growth?

In part, but mainly continue value trading, as we have done, to improve the actual best 23, not for any depth.

 

[ABAB]

He's not worth it. Also, the effect on team harmony would be a negative.

A lot of players will be on $1-1.2M with the new CPA and you need to pay overs for FA so it doesn't cost any trade capital. As long as it isn't $1.7-2M which will be excessive.

 

[BRL121]

How are you valuing his worth?

Where would be be rated in our list? Pay him the same rate, plus a trading surcharge, not 1.4m.

That should lead to a discussion here. Where would people rate him in our present list?
Talent, match-winning ability, effort, consistency, all need to be considered, not just Free-agent hype.
Value to the team is the story.

I'd have him at about the Rachele level.

 

[GreyCrow]

Where would be be rated in our list? Pay him the same rate, plus a trading surcharge, not 1.4m.

That should lead to a discussion here. Where would people rate him in our present list?
Talent, match-winning ability, effort, consistency, all need to be considered, not just Free-agent hype.
Value to the team is the story.

I'd have him at about the Rachele level.

That's more info. Thanks

I think his age profile (27) his games played (180+ by next year) his development are all positives

Checked his stats for the last 2 years and they are fine and as noted Rachele adjacent

Looking at our list he replaces Dawson ( 3 years older) who replaces Laird. He would be better currently than Berry and Soligo.

One could argue he jumps Rankine but I still hold hope Izak finds the switch

If Rachele is on 800-850 then you do need to pay a moving tax. Given his age some front end (till 31 then down) could smooth out any issues

I do find your idea of a wage been an unsettler as odd. Not anymore

 

[BRL121]

That's more info. Thanks

I think his age profile (27) his games played (180+ by next year) his development are all positives

Checked his stats for the last 2 years and they are fine and as noted Rachele adjacent

Looking at our list he replaces Dawson ( 3 years older) who replaces Laird. He would be better currently than Berry and Soligo.

One could argue he jumps Rankine but I still hold hope Izak finds the switch

If Rachele is on 800-850 then you do need to pay a moving tax. Given his age some front end (till 31 then down) could smooth out any issues

I do find your idea of a wage been an unsettler as odd. Not anymore

Re wage "unsettling", I would think StKilda is the prime test bed for this.
Reportedly, Wilkie was indeed unsettled by the prospect of their overrated and overpaid recruits, threatening to leave and having to be smoothed over. Rowan Marshall likewise.

De Koning would have to be the most ridiculously overrated recruit ever at 1.7m, and his performances both prior and post recruitment show this amply. I would be completely disgusted with the club if we had done such a deal. I bet there are grumblings inside StKilda already from players about the inequity of his salary.

 

[Cromulant]

Re wage "unsettling", I would think StKilda is the prime test bed for this.
Reportedly, Wilkie was indeed unsettled by the prospect of their overrated and overpaid recruits, threatening to leave and having to be smoothed over. Rowan Marshall likewise.

De Koning would have to be the most ridiculously overrated recruit ever at 1.7m, and his performances both prior and post recruitment show this amply. I would be completely disgusted with the club if we had done such a deal. I bet there are grumblings inside StKilda already from players about the inequity of his salary.

Salary doesnt matter if you perform, TDK hasnt yet.

 

[BRL121]

Salary doesnt matter if you perform, TDK hasnt yet.

I would argue that it does if you don't perform any better than someone on half the salary.

 

[GameofSloanes]

I dont care what we pay, just do what is necessary to get more guns into the side. We still need more. We'd look a lot better now with a Petracca in the team
I'm not sure Bailey is what we need though, he's more of the same of what we have not a game changer or a positional need imo
Still, he'd be better than our current worst first team player

 

[Cromulant]

I would argue that it does if you don't perform any better than someone on half the salary.

Maybe, but I think if youre better than the alternative then you're a win.

I dont think anyone at Adelaide would be upset with ROB's salary even though its probably 3 times as much as McAndrews.

 

[Mutineer]

I dont care what we pay, just do what is necessary to get more guns into the side. We still need more. We'd look a lot better now with a Petracca in the team
I'm not sure Bailey is what we need though, he's more of the same of what we have not a game changer or a positional need imo
Still, he'd be better than our current worst first team player

Paying overs for Bailey could also lead to one or more of our young guns that have the potential to be genuine A graders looking elsewhere for more coin too. Salary cap matters when it comes to retention. Bailey is a very good midfielder/forward no doubt but personally I don't see him as a game changer midfielder....does his best work forward of the ball IMO. Is he worth the $1.4M or more the general consensus seems to have him at? I'm not sure he is.

 

[Cromulant]

Paying overs for Bailey could also lead to one or more of our young guns that have the potential to be genuine A graders looking elsewhere for more coin too. Salary cap matters when it comes to retention. Bailey is a very good midfielder/forward no doubt but personally I don't see him as a game changer midfielder....does his best work forward of the ball IMO. Is he worth the $1.4M or more the general consensus seems to have him at? I'm not sure he is.

Id also be a bit wary of how he's going to perform in a lesser midfield. Theres no Neale or McCluggage attracting attention, theres no Dunkley or Berry doing the grunt work, and whilst Rachele is warming to that midfield role he's not yet or maybe wont be Will Ashcroft.

Dawson and MAYBE a fit Soligo aside, we are a long way from a proven midfield group that he will walk into, and the pressure of Adelaide is far greater than Brisbane.

 

[119others]

What's the alternative. Internal growth?

every team would love bailey but its the opportunity cost down the track? thats what scares some people inc me. and 1.4m perhaps is needed to get him out of lions but geez, it aint cheap and materially more than most people thought he was worth mid last year (discussion about 850-1m from memory)

its just what happens when our even better youngsters come out of contract and see bailey - a likely 5th or 6th best player in our team (tt, dawson, rankine, rachele, then worrell shortly after that. and this is BEFORE curtin and draper hopefully elevate to this upper echelon) - on his 7 years x 1.4m benchmark contract.

for example, assuming rachele is better (thats already my view) and only in his 5th year (baileys 9th). why wouldnt rash want 1.4m or more when OOC at the end of 2029. ditto curtin etc etc. those guys will be fielding MASSIVE offers when out of contract in a few years time.

i am torn here as bailey is a very good player. he aint absolutely elite but combined with rash and rankine our 3 x mid/forward line players here will easily be competitions best offering great flexibility.

but surely you can see the potentially tricky pay off down the track?

and i agree internal growth likely wont be enough (even with lots of elite potential loaded youngsters already on the list).

so maybe to be a true contender we just need to bite the bullet and take a swing now with bailey (followed by another gun next year who we can offer 2 or 3 x first rounders) and deal with the 'consequences' down the track

edit - i understand the CBA has material increases baked in but current 1m+ contracts

 

[119others]

Id also be a bit wary of how he's going to perform in a lesser midfield. Theres no Neale or McCluggage attracting attention, theres no Dunkley or Berry doing the grunt work, and whilst Rachele is warming to that midfield role he's not yet or maybe wont be Will Ashcroft.

Dawson and MAYBE a fit Soligo aside, we are a long way from a proven midfield group that he will walk into, and the pressure of Adelaide is far greater than Brisbane.

not all proven but rachele, rankine, curtin, draper and now even edwards on top of dawson and soligo offers significant potential. IF it comes off we are looking at a top 4 midfield here (based on both exposed form and/or draft position for curtin and draper)

 

[Daniel6]

I don’t think clubs pay players based on their ability, they pay them a lot more money than market value to change clubs.

I don’t think for 1 second Zac Bailey

33

Zac Bailey

Age

26

Ht

181cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.7

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

5.9

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.9

3star

D

12.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

5.6

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.4

3star

CL

0.7

3star

D

13.4

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.8

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.8

5star

CL

0.6

3star

would be worth close to $1.5 million but IMO he worth about $750,000 a season but the other $750,000 is about convincing him to move clubs. Much like Sam Draper, he isn’t worth the amount he gets but the extra is about convincing him to move clubs.

 

[Mutineer]

I don’t think clubs pay players based on their ability, they pay them a lot more money than market value to change clubs.

I don’t think for 1 second Zac Bailey would be worth close to $1.5 million but IMO he worth about $750,000 a season but the other $750,000 is about convincing him to move clubs. Much like Sam Draper, he isn’t worth the amount he gets but the extra is about convincing him to move clubs.

Have you worked out how much we'd be paying over your suggested "base' wage value over a 7 year contract to convince him to move?
How does $5.25M to convince him to move sound?

 

[Cromulant]

I don’t think clubs pay players based on their ability, they pay them a lot more money than market value to change clubs.

I don’t think for 1 second Zac Bailey would be worth close to $1.5 million but IMO he worth about $750,000 a season but the other $750,000 is about convincing him to move clubs. Much like Sam Draper, he isn’t worth the amount he gets but the extra is about convincing him to move clubs.

He's worth more than 750.

You dont doubt someones salary just to get them to change clubs.

 

[BRL121]

I don’t think clubs pay players based on their ability, they pay them a lot more money than market value to change clubs.

I don’t think for 1 second Zac Bailey would be worth close to $1.5 million but IMO he worth about $750,000 a season but the other $750,000 is about convincing him to move clubs. Much like Sam Draper, he isn’t worth the amount he gets but the extra is about convincing him to move clubs.

Double is way too much extra.

 

[119others]

Where would be be rated in our list? Pay him the same rate, plus a trading surcharge, not 1.4m.

That should lead to a discussion here. Where would people rate him in our present list?
Talent, match-winning ability, effort, consistency, all need to be considered, not just Free-agent hype.
Value to the team is the story.

I'd have him at about the Rachele level.

ive got him currently 5th or 6th behind

dawson
tt
rankine (normal production not his 2026 output)
rachele

then bailey and worrell next

and thats before curtin and/or draper jump into the top 5 or 6 over coming years with potentially more upside

your thoughts on where he sits?

as long as we are comfortable paying our (likely) 6-8th best player in 3 years time 1.4m/year. clearly the strategy is 'win now and for the next 5 years' and the FA status is a massive advantage instead of likely giving up 2 x first rounders for this calibre of player

 

[BRL121]

ive got him currently 5th or 6th behind

dawson
tt
rankine (normal production not his 2026 output)
rachele

then bailey and worrell next

and thats before curtin and/or draper jump into the top 5 or 6 over coming years with potentially more upside

your thoughts on where he sits?

as long as we are comfortable paying our (likely) 6-8th best player in 3 years time 1.4m/year. clearly the strategy is 'win now and for the next 5 years' and the FA status is a massive advantage instead of likely giving up 2 x first rounders for this calibre of player

I agree with this, but I take your last sentence more seriously: I'm definitely not comfortable paying such a disproportionate salary.

 

[119others]

I dont care what we pay, just do what is necessary to get more guns into the side. We still need more. We'd look a lot better now with a Petracca in the team
I'm not sure Bailey is what we need though, he's more of the same of what we have not a game changer or a positional need imo
Still, he'd be better than our current worst first team player

thats a low benchmark for a 1.4m x 7 year player! surely he needs to jump into our best 5 players (or very close to) and immediately impact. and everything does come down to cost. luckily he is 'free' from a trade collateral perspective (massive adv) but the salary is at the very top end of what most reasonable fans would think he is worth.

like currently in our team would anyone besides dawson (whose salary was moved up when contract extended last year) and maybe tt and rankine be on more than 1m? i cant see it, and even these 3 guys i would think are very close to the 1m mark not 1.2m+

so bailey is going to come in and be by far the highest paid player on the list. just hope it doesnt unsettle things but ive made my point re this so will now zip it