List Mgmt. List Mgmt/philosophy/structure and analysis

[Ricketz]

Dude it was a heat map from 1 final! Are you drawing a conclusion from a season ranking by the feedback from that? Show me a season average heat map that displays that and i'll concede! You can't justify that conclusion from 1 match where the Cats were comprehensively beaten!

That game he ranked 3rd with 6 behind J Selwood and T Hawkins. He was equal 5th overall along with Kelly and Lewis.

You can at least conclude that he is capable of doing it.

 

[Ricketz]

I got that wrong then l thought it was a year's sample. Sorry my mistake.
I'm sure they would have a yearly map on every player l would imagine.

It's a fair call. He shows similar stats in most of our games where they are tough and close - West Coast, Richmond, Hawthorn, WB etc. He spends more time in the defensive half and ranks around 1-5 for score involvements.

 

[Ratcat]

It's a fair call. He shows similar stats in most of our games where they are tough and close - West Coast, Richmond, Hawthorn, WB etc. He spends more time in the defensive half and ranks around 1-5 for score involvements.

Thanks for that Ricketz, l didn't realize he was so much more defensive side than offense.

 

[Ricketz]

Thanks for that Ricketz, l didn't realize he was so much more defensive side than offense.

Full list for you, score involvement rank Geelong only:
R1 v Melbourne 65:35(D/F%) 12 SI (1st)
R2 v Hawthorn 60:40 7 SI (5th)
R3 v Eagles 75:25 7 SI (4th)
R4 v Saints DNP
R5 v Port DNP
R6 v Swans DNP
R7 v GWS DNP
R8 v Pies 47:53 6 SI (5th)
R9 v Bombers 45:55 3SI (11th)
R10 v Carlton 52:48 6 SI (2nd)
R11 v Sun's 53:47 13 SI (1st)
R12 v North 68:32 11 SI (1st)
R13 v Tigers 35:65 4 SI (2nd)
R14 bye
R15 v Dogs 55:45 10 SI (3rd)
R16 v Swans 34:66 4 SI (11th)
R17 v Adelaide 44:56 11 SI (2nd)
R18 v Melbourne 55:45 4 SI (9th)
R19 v Brisbane 64:36 12 SI (3rd)
R20 v Tigers 64:36 8 SI (4th)
R21 v Hawthorn 56:44 6 SI (3rd)
R22 v Freo 17:83 6 SI (13th)
R23 v Suns 52:48 10 SI (3rd)

Overall score involvement rank 4th (146)
Average score involvement rank 3rd (7.68)

You wonder where he gets the rap that he isn't a two way runner. Without posting the heat maps, I can tell you most games he has pretty much full coverage across the ground.

 

[Ratcat]

Full list for you, score involvement rank Geelong only:
R1 v Melbourne 65:35(D/F%) 12 SI (1st)
R2 v Hawthorn 60:40 7 SI (5th)
R3 v Eagles 75:25 7 SI (4th)
R4 v Saints DNP
R5 v Port DNP
R6 v Swans DNP
R7 v GWS DNP
R8 v Pies 47:53 6 SI (5th)
R9 v Bombers 45:55 3SI (11th)
R10 v Carlton 52:48 6 SI (2nd)
R11 v Sun's 53:47 13 SI (1st)
R12 v North 68:32 11 SI (1st)
R13 v Tigers 35:65 4 SI (2nd)
R14 bye
R15 v Dogs 55:45 10 SI (3rd)
R16 v Swans 34:66 4 SI (11th)
R17 v Adelaide 44:56 11 SI (2nd)
R18 v Melbourne 55:45 4 SI (9th)
R19 v Brisbane 64:36 12 SI (3rd)
R20 v Tigers 64:36 8 SI (4th)
R21 v Hawthorn 56:44 6 SI (3rd)
R22 v Freo 17:83 6 SI (13th)
R23 v Suns 52:48 10 SI (3rd)

Overall score involvement rank 4th (146)
Average score involvement rank 3rd (7.68)

You wonder where he gets the rap that he isn't a two way runner. Without posting the heat maps, I can tell you most games he has pretty much full coverage across the ground.

Thanks for all that great work much appreciated.

 

[Ricketz]

Thanks for all that great work much appreciated.

No worries, I found it interesting myself. I didn't realise his time on the hbf was so significant either.

I kind of suspected about the score involvements though, he is a smart user of the ball - that doesn't decline with age.

Another thing you can take from it is that we win more when he is directing the play, than when he is up forward. I would almost guarantee, after going through those maps, he will be played in the midfield again this year, mopping up along half back.

 

[Ratcat]

No worries, I found it interesting myself. I didn't realise his time on the hbf was so significant either.

I kind of suspected about the score involvements though, he is a smart user of the ball - that doesn't decline with age.

Another thing you can take from it is that we win more when he is directing the play, than when he is up forward. I would almost guarantee, after going through those maps, he will be played in the midfield again this year, mopping up along half back.

So what's your understanding of "mts gained" is that meaning distance covered with ball in hand?
That might indicate his defensive position enables a mts gain advantage.
He looks to have done that job extremely well that being the case according to the stats. (half-back sweeper)

 

[Ricketz]

So what's your understanding of "mts gained" is that meaning distance covered with ball in hand?
That might indicate his defensive position enables a mts gain advantage.
He looks to have done that job extremely well that being the case. (half-back sweeper)

Metres gained is forward ball movement from a possession, except in the pockets, where lateral movement is counted. That could be running, tapping, kicking, handballing it forward.

It doesn't necessarily have to be an effective disposal, so a disposal will potentially go straight to the opposition and count. That is why you should at least couple it with disposal efficiency.

HBF generally are high in metres gained, distribution is usually by foot - a la Stewart and Tuohy. Outside midfielders also usually rank pretty highly. Guys like Selwood and Mitchell who distribute to those outsiders will have lower figures.

Ablett has high contested possessions and clearance figures, so he is doing both jobs and still racking up big numbers. It's remarkable that he ranked one in the team for average metres gained.

 

[Ratcat]

Metres gained is forward ball movement from a possession, except in the pockets, where lateral movement is counted. That could be running, tapping, kicking, handballing it forward.

It doesn't necessarily have to be an effective disposal, so a disposal will potentially go straight to the opposition and count. That is why you should at least couple it with disposal efficiency.

HBF generally are high in metres gained, distribution is usually by foot - a la Stewart and Tuohy. Outside midfielders also usually rank pretty highly. Guys like Selwood and Mitchell who distribute to those outsiders will have lower figures.

Ablett has high contested possessions and clearance figures, so he is doing both jobs and still racking up big numbers. It's remarkable that he ranked one in the team for average metres gained.

Thanks for the education that's fascinating, so going by all that he's done extremely well even though he’s 34.
What irks me is how easy it's for some to dismiss him as mediocre almost a liability for the sake of promoting a few kids without much cred.
Now l understand how he could av 23.56 mts gained it makes sense now.
Cheers to you.

 

[Ricketz]

Thanks for the education that's fascinating, so going by all that he's done extremely well even though he’s 34.
What irks me is how easy it's for some to dismiss him as mediocre almost a liability for the sake of promoting a few kids without much cred.

The guy is the GOAT, I am sure of it. His numbers last year were amazing for somebody his age.

He is measured by his own lofty standards.

I also think that he does make it look so easy sometimes, people think he is lazy.

 

[Ratcat]

The guy is the GOAT, I am sure of it. His numbers last year were amazing for somebody his age.

He is measured by his own lofty standards.

I also think that he does make it look so easy sometimes, people think he is lazy.

I wonder what he's capable of this year, l think they're expecting a drop off but who can tell lol!

 

[Ricketz]

I wonder what he's capable of this year, l think they're expecting a drop off but who can tell lol!

He might have lost a bit of speed but his tank seems ok, spent 5th most time on ground in the final at the end of a tough season.

I would be happy to manage him, anyway, if it meant he had the ball in his hands come September.

My feeling is that he will have another great year, with some of the younger guys lifting some more of the load.

 

[Ratcat]

He might have lost a bit of speed but his tank seems ok, spent 5th most time on ground in the final at the end of a tough season.

I would be happy to manage him, anyway, if it meant he had the ball in his hands come September.

My feeling is that he will have another great year, with some of the younger guys lifting some more of the load.

Well said, l feel the same about taking care of him but l don't see any of these newbies forcing him out like some like to imagine.

I'm like you, hoping they're good enough to lighten his load some then maybe he can spend some more time forward.

 

[catswhiskers]

He might have lost a bit of speed but his tank seems ok, spent 5th most time on ground in the final at the end of a tough season.

I would be happy to manage him, anyway, if it meant he had the ball in his hands come September.

My feeling is that he will have another great year, with some of the younger guys lifting some more of the load.

This last page or so has been a very informative read.

A Dorothy Dixer for you.

Can we assume that coaching decisions are made with this sort of information on the table. I can see that my opinions / conclusions ( because I can't access much more than basic data ) are probably underdone.

With that in mind do you have data (or can you point to where such data resides) to judge Abbott's work in his first four games. I am bullish now and have said so here a couple of times -but it just a gut feeling.

Finally and for any one. Do we need a fact checker thread? A Sticky maybe that can extract opinions from other threads and show the data I can't find.

Probably too much work........ Oh well.

 

[Landgraft]

This last page or so has been a very informative read.

A Dorothy Dixer for you.

Can we assume that coaching decisions are made with this sort of information on the table. I can see that my opinions / conclusions ( because I can't access much more than basic data ) are probably underdone.

With that in mind do you have data (or can you point to where such data resides) to judge Abbott's work in his first four games. I am bullish now and have said so here a couple of times -but it just a gut feeling.

Finally and for any one. Do we need a fact checker thread? A Sticky maybe that can extract opinions from other threads and show the data I can't find.

Probably too much work........ Oh well.

The unfortunate thing is there's still so much more data buried away that we'll never get to access. We can combine and slice these different measures, but CD just straight up don't release most of the stats that coaches and clubs look at so they can sell them instead.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

Oh I have my issues with Scott, the people around him and the people he answers to don't worry.
But I'm not blinded by those issues to not be able to see things he's good at.
What has proven to be in his best interest, and to keep his superiors content is to win as many H&A games in the present as possible, regardless of the future.
It's what he is good at, and it's hard to blame anyone for self interest.

There must be an end goal though Spazz. That end goal must be to be competitive in finals, competitive enough that you’re in a position to win Grand Finals.
Band aid remedies will only cut it for so long

 

[Pollywaffle]

He might have lost a bit of speed but his tank seems ok, spent 5th most time on ground in the final at the end of a tough season.
I would be happy to manage him, anyway, if it meant he had the ball in his hands come September.
My feeling is that he will have another great year, with some of the younger guys lifting some more of the load.

I have my issues with the philosophy that brought Ablett back to the cattery but am expecting a big effort from him this year, as he has to realise that his time is almost up. Champions respond to criticism.
Heck, didn't one of those preseason training picks show him wearing boots?

 

[Spazz Cat]

There must be an end goal though Spazz. That end goal must be to be competitive in finals, competitive enough that you’re in a position to win Grand Finals.
Band aid remedies will only cut it for so long

Absolutely. It's not a policy I agree with, but I'm not going to say he's not good at doing what the board wants to achieve, or winning H&A games though, cause he is.
They are so happy they give him contract extensions before even seeing how we perform in finals.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

Absolutely. It's not a policy I agree with, but I'm not going to say he's not good at doing what the board wants to achieve, or winning H&A games though, cause he is.
They are so happy they give him contract extensions before even seeing how we perform in finals.

Maybe we need a board with more ambition then

 

[Spazz Cat]

Maybe we need a board with more ambition then

Yep. It's a touchy subject for everyone because of how much Cook has done for us.
But, it's hard to just blame Scott for everything when he gets extended a year early and before finals, THEN they do a review.
Its pretty f***ed up.
Not worlds best practice I would think.

 

[Down at K Park]

Yep. It's a touchy subject for everyone because of how much Cook has done for us.
But, it's hard to just blame Scott for everything when he gets extended a year early and before finals, THEN they do a review.
Its pretty f***ed up.
Not worlds best practice I would think.

I was thinking about this this morning. He really should be going into the last year of his contract with a lot of pressure to perform to get a new one. Extremely dumb to give him another 3 yrs extension when they did. Who the hell signed off on that?

 

[Mr Blicavs]

Yep. It's a touchy subject for everyone because of how much Cook has done for us.
But, it's hard to just blame Scott for everything when he gets extended a year early and before finals, THEN they do a review.
Its pretty f***ed up.
Not worlds best practice I would think.

I’m not sentimental. Sure, Cook has done some great work at the Cattery, but no one is bigger than the club and no one is expendable.
This current (apparent) philosophy is a road to disaster

 

[Pollywaffle]

Yep. It's a touchy subject for everyone because of how much Cook has done for us.
But, it's hard to just blame Scott for everything when he gets extended a year early and before finals, THEN they do a review.
Its pretty f***ed up.
Not worlds best practice I would think.

I wonder if Scott put them over a barrel with some sort of ultimatum...

 

[Spazz Cat]

I’m not sentimental. Sure, Cook has done some great work at the Cattery, but no one is bigger than the club and no one is expendable.
This current (apparent) philosophy is a road to disaster

Yep.
Ultimately we all support the club, not people at the club.

 

[Spazz Cat]

I wonder if Scott put them over a barrel with some sort of ultimatum...

Doesn't matter if he did IMO, it's still not great.