List Mgmt. List Mgmt/philosophy/structure and analysis

[dazbroncos]

Yep. It's a touchy subject for everyone because of how much Cook has done for us.
But, it's hard to just blame Scott for everything when he gets extended a year early and before finals, THEN they do a review.
Its pretty f***ed up.
Not worlds best practice I would think.

Cook has done many great things and is a HOF/Statue candidate for mine.

But the arse backwards approach makes no sense to me either. I dont mind CS getting extended on the proviso that he'd had the results. We had not (and results in Finals was the results im referring to) so on that basis I dont get Cookie's move.

I could accept that the baseline pass mark was being up for so long and there is a plan at play to roll over the "new breed" coming in but its harder to accept on potential as there is a certain rinse and repeat to the last hew finals series and potential can only get you so far - 4 years seems long to me.

We will see how it pans out. I know Cookie is nearly done at his position so Id hate this early re-signing being the epitaph to his stellar career here.

Go Catters

 

[Spazz Cat]

Cook has done many great things and is a HOF/Statue candidate for mine.

But the arse backwards approach makes no sense to me either. I dont mind CS getting extended on the proviso that he'd had the results. We had not (and results in Finals was the results im referring to) so on that basis I dont get Cookie's move.

I could accept that the baseline pass mark was being up for so long and there is a plan at play to roll over the "new breed" coming in but its harder to accept on potential as there is a certain rinse and repeat to the last hew finals series and potential can only get you so far - 4 years seems long to me.

We will see how it pans out. I know Cookie is nearly done at his position so Id hate this early re-signing being the epitaph to his stellar career here.

Go Catters

I would hate that too. No matter how things pan out though, like as you said, he deserves a statue.

 

[dazbroncos]

I would hate that too. No matter how things pan out though, like as you said, he deserves a statue.

and Cookie is also not responsible for the coaches action - he is charged with putting the best coach in that position however.
Perhaps in his, and the boards, opinion, CS was the best choice to maintain in that spot.
I cant speak to Cookie and the Board's thought process but the general feel seems that decision is questionable 0- but the mechanism of getting "the best" in the spot for 4 years I dont mind - especially if Cookie is out at the end of 2019.

I can see why he'd want some continuity thru his leaving and replacement.

GO Catters

 

[Pollywaffle]

Doesn't matter if he did IMO, it's still not great.

Agree100 percent.
Possible that Scott knew the wheels were going to come off again last season and put some pressure on when his stocks were at their highest, or the pencil heads at the cub decided to take the easy 'comfortable' option. Either way a poor decision.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

Doesn't matter if he did IMO, it's still not great.

What possible leverage could he have had.
Weak decision by the club either way IMO

 

[cynical]

the club just wants bums on seats

doesnt want to do the hard yards to get a flag

 

[Pollywaffle]

What possible leverage could he have had.
Weak decision by the club either way IMO

Another club sniffing around for a teflon coated coach...media offers? Other organizations that value a silvertongue..?

 

[Mr Blicavs]

Another club sniffing around for a teflon coated coach...media offers? Other organizations that value a silvertongue..?

I really dont understand how anyone thinks hes a silver tongue or even remotely slick Hes as transparent as a glass window at the front of a brothel...
Furthermore, one only has to look at his finals record., or how he runs pubs to know hes a fraud. But I digress....

 

[Man0gwaR74]

I can see why he'd want some continuity thru his leaving and replacement.

and I can see how he could have become distracted by other commitments.

 

[Partridge]

the club just wants bums on seats

doesnt want to do the hard yards to get a flag

I hope that isn't their thinking. Because when the inevitable slide comes the crowds will drop too. They almost never fill Geelong as is.

We've got a fair few shall we say "iffy" players, and they're all going to be shoehorned into our starting 22. Don't be surprised if the results aren't ideal.

 

[Turbocat]

I hope that isn't their thinking. Because when the inevitable slide comes the crowds will drop too. They almost never fill Geelong as is.

We've got a fair few shall we say "iffy" players, and they're all going to be shoehorned into our starting 22. Don't be surprised if the results aren't ideal.

The first 3rd of the season has the potential to have a melt or shut a few mouths.

 

[Turbocat]

the club just wants bums on seats

doesnt want to do the hard yards to get a flag

Cyn... I think thats a bit too attribute. I dont think its not that hard yards etc is somthing they are not willing to take on ... I dont believe they see any other path which offers a high degree of certain success.. Yes Cook has said they cant afford to drop etc.. so maybe thats what you mean hard yards.. as in absorb the poor results , drop and rebuild with better picks etc... but so many clubs have trawled the bottom of the ladder ... how many have actually succeeded.. if we are talking purely flags. Could we ever hope to have a better group of kids thru picks that GC and GWS accumulated?
One or two seasons of bottom ish results ..say 10 down might be all we really need "if" its a few single figure picks is what we need. It depends on how many high level players we can get from R2 back and non traditional paths. Of course if all of our late ish picked players ... it may well be the choice about hard yards is taken out of the clubs hands.

 

[Partridge]

The first 3rd of the season has the potential to have a melt or shut a few mouths.

It could make for extremely interesting viewing. We're expecting quite a number of players that have either underperformed (or rarely performed) to slot in seamlessly. I'm not so sure.

 

[Turbocat]

It could make for extremely interesting viewing. We're expecting quite a number of players that have either underperformed (or rarely performed) to slot in seamlessly. I'm not so sure.

I think you have nailed my doubts. It could all be very good... but its not often that someone changes their spots. Even Ottens was no immediate success... and really it was he perfromance in the big games that made him such value recruit. If any of these guys manage to influence a high attention game late in the year it will have more to say on the recruitment than a May day at KP

I maintain.. we would get more by pushing the A team out .. for a bigger chunks of games.. Guys like Parfitt etc.. must be relied on to step up

 

[dazbroncos]

im expecting a long year.
Cohesion and continual week in week out effort win you flags.

We have rolled some 27 players in the last 3 years and not had cohesion or continual effort and now its expected to click? Not so sure that will happen.
However, there is hope.
If the changes that have been long murmoured about attitude, buy in and communication improve and the "synergy" comes and things start to click, there is the talent there to achieve good things.

As Partridge has said before... winning a flag needs everything to go right - and thats with the pieces to make it happen and a sprinkling of luck.. We shall see how it plays out.

GO Catters

 

[Turbocat]

im expecting a long year.
Cohesion and continual week in week out effort win you flags.

We have rolled some 27 players in the last 3 years and not had cohesion or continual effort and now its expected to click? Not so sure that will happen.
However, there is hope.
If the changes that have been long murmoured about attitude, buy in and communication improve and the "synergy" comes and things start to click, there is the talent there to achieve good things.

As Partridge has said before... winning a flag needs everything to go right - and thats with the pieces to make it happen and a sprinkling of luck.. We shall see how it plays out.

GO Catters

One could expand so much on the excellent points you have raised... effort each week need players who can butter up each week.. cohesion would appear to be more likely to come from a young group that grows to gather than a foreign legion type approach..... just how much does that count when you are under the pump...

Different forum etc... but I heard a reference to what made the Beatles the Beatles .. was the 10,000 hours in the lead up to their success .. in Germany etc... the hard hours together shows up when later on it looks like individuals just "know" how to sync.. they dont have to look at the pedals to change gears...

 

[Spazz Cat]

The first 3rd of the season has the potential to have a melt or shut a few mouths.

The first half of last year certainly made me shut my mouth.
Even though we lost a few I was still really happy, looked like we were building something not just holding on against the tide.
Most I've enjoyed watching us for the better part of 5 years.
Then as Partridge alluded to a few posts ago, the Shoehorn's started happening and I knew we were in for the same old.

 

[Ratcat]

If we're going to improve l think it must come from the forwardline, ranked at 11th in the comp is about right, defence at 5th is fair assessment too imo.

 

[Vdubs]

[QUOTE="dazbroncos, post: 59259434, member: 106132"]im expecting a long year.
Cohesion and continual week in week out effort win you flags.

We have rolled some 27 players in the last 3 years and not had cohesion or continual effort and now its expected to click? Not so sure that will happen.
However, there is hope.
If the changes that have been long murmoured about attitude, buy in and communication improve and the "synergy" comes and things start to click, there is the talent there to achieve good things.

As Partridge has said before... winning a flag needs everything to go right - and thats with the pieces to make it happen and a sprinkling of luck.. We shall see how it plays out.

GO Catters[/QUOTE]
So you're expecting a short year! 22 weeks only.
That rarely happens to us, but there is some inevitability to it.
Interesting the way some supporters react to this- anger, blame, acceptance, depression, disbelief...
I'm strongly in the acceptance camp. ie accept that it has to be inevitable. Our best players are past it, and compared to many teams, we have no outstanding youth, and we seem to be hoping that a couple of iffy players are going to provide relief.
The overachievement was not going to last forever.

 

[cynical]

Cyn... I think thats a bit too attribute. I dont think its not that hard yards etc is somthing they are not willing to take on ... I dont believe they see any other path which offers a high degree of certain success.. Yes Cook has said they cant afford to drop etc.. so maybe thats what you mean hard yards.. as in absorb the poor results , drop and rebuild with better picks etc... but so many clubs have trawled the bottom of the ladder ... how many have actually succeeded.. if we are talking purely flags. Could we ever hope to have a better group of kids thru picks that GC and GWS accumulated?
One or two seasons of bottom ish results ..say 10 down might be all we really need "if" its a few single figure picks is what we need. It depends on how many high level players we can get from R2 back and non traditional paths. Of course if all of our late ish picked players ... it may well be the choice about hard yards is taken out of the clubs hands.

we missed finals in 2015 before that it was 2006

we also topped up a fair bit and most of our early picks have been busts

our 26yo and under players are the worst in the competition

there is who? Stewart, Kelly (halfway out the door) umm Parfitt who looks ok but limited (how many of our 26yo and under players would get a game at WC, Richmond or Melbourne?)

you dont fix that in 2 years unfortunately

the club just keeps kicking the can down the road until all those over 27yo players are cooked or retired then we'll be Carlton or still topping up but instead of 8th we'll be topping up to finish 13th

 

[Mr Blicavs]

im expecting a long year.
Cohesion and continual week in week out effort win you flags.

We have rolled some 27 players in the last 3 years and not had cohesion or continual effort and now its expected to click? Not so sure that will happen.
However, there is hope.
If the changes that have been long murmoured about attitude, buy in and communication improve and the "synergy" comes and things start to click, there is the talent there to achieve good things.

As Partridge has said before... winning a flag needs everything to go right - and thats with the pieces to make it happen and a sprinkling of luck.. We shall see how it plays out.

GO Catters

Being competitive doesnt... It just means having a dip.

 

[Vdubs]

we missed finals in 2015 before that it was 2006

we also topped up a fair bit and most of our early picks have been busts

our 26yo and under players are the worst in the competition

there is who? Stewart, Kelly (halfway out the door) umm Parfitt who looks ok but limited (how many of our 26yo and under players would get a game at WC, Richmond or Melbourne?)

you dont fix that in 2 years unfortunately

the club just keeps kicking the can down the road until all those over 27yo players are cooked or retired then we'll be Carlton or still topping up but instead of 8th we'll be topping up to finish 13th

That might be true, but then there's only one way to go. Not as if we are a club that languishes at the bottom indefinitely. It does look grim after Joel, Hawk, Danger, Taylor, GAJ are gone, but it had to be that way. We have been on a high and a relative high for longer than most teams and we may pay the price for a little while, but had we not topped up, we may not have recruited that well anyway given our ladder finishes.

 

[Turbocat]

we missed finals in 2015 before that it was 2006

we also topped up a fair bit and most of our early picks have been busts

our 26yo and under players are the worst in the competition

there is who? Stewart, Kelly (halfway out the door) umm Parfitt who looks ok but limited (how many of our 26yo and under players would get a game at WC, Richmond or Melbourne?)

you dont fix that in 2 years unfortunately

the club just keeps kicking the can down the road until all those over 27yo players are cooked or retired then we'll be Carlton or still topping up but instead of 8th we'll be topping up to finish 13th

The worst players 26 and under .... I'm not sure what gauge you are using for that assertion? Is it the how many would get a game at clubs named etc?

Id say Carlton is the counter point to having to build thru kids and being at the bottom ... they have had ample time to build thru picks at the bottom..

To me in this era of FA a couple of years out of the finals is probably as much as id like ..as you then start to lose draw value after that.
The key to me is just how our under valued players develop. AS you mentioned our early picks that were late teens were no great outcome so I dont think any approach has a guaranteed success

 

[Landgraft]

The first 3rd of the season has the potential to have a melt or shut a few mouths.

Do you really think that many (if any at all) mouths would shut? I can already hear hard-won successes being discarded for just being H&A games.

 

[Turbocat]

Do you really think that many (if any at all) mouths would shut? I can already hear hard-won successes being discarded for just being H&A games.

"Potential" ... in the end there will be melts by some no matter what...