NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

[loyallion]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Can someone PLEASE explain to me what the hell this is all about I have absolutely no idea what is going on here? Whats this all about and how is all going to effect the NFL next season? I s there even going to be season this year? Its all so bloody complicated!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mad_eagle]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Can someone PLEASE explain to me what the hell this is all about I have absolutely no idea what is going on here? Whats this all about and how is all going to effect the NFL next season? I s there even going to be season this year? Its all so bloody complicated!!!!!!!!!!

Owners want more money in two forms. Two extra games every year and a bigger slice of the $9 billion dollar revenue pie.

The players (NFLPA) say f u you greedy pricks! We all ready struggle to stay fit for 16 games, their is no way in hell we are playing an extra two. By the way, we also want more money in the salary cap, so how about giving us a bigger slice of that $9 billion dollar pie?

Owners laugh in the face of players, players refuse to sign on the Collective Bargaining Agreement that the NFL puts in front of them. Owners literally lock the clubhouse doors and say jokes on you suckers...no sign, no play!

In other words, yes there is a real strong possibility of no NFL Season this year.

Sucks really...only people who truely lose in this instance are the fans. But I do like the idea of Roger Goodell taking a pay cut to $1!!! lol

Check this out for a better worder article:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...aining-the-nfl-labor-dispute-in-laymans-terms

The main dispute over the newly proposed bargaining agreement centers around the amount of money that the owners want to take as “credit” from the revenue pool. In the previous agreement, the owners took $1 billion from the pool of approximately $9 billion, but now they are trying to increase that number to $2.4 billion, citing “the economic realities of the era” as reasoning.

(p.s. I'm not calling you a dummy, it's just the first article I came across)

 

[drd23]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

^Close but not quite.

They are arguing about how to split the roughly $9b in league generated revenue (i.e. outside team specific generated revenue such as PSLs etc). The Owner's havent been happy about the last CBA (signed in 2006) from when it was first signed. They decided to opt out of it which is how we had no cap this year.

The Owners currently get a $1b credit taken out of the $9b to cover expenses, and then the other $8b is divided between the teams and players. The Owner's want to get a further $1b credit (taking it to $2b), leaving the remaining revenue of $7b to be divided between the owners/franchises and the players as they claim that player costs have been growing at a far faster rate than revenue has been growing.

The NFLPA 2 years ago basically said "Fine, you claim that this is happening, show us your books so we can see it for ourselves." The owners said "Trust us". The NFLPA said no. They have been arguing like this for the past 2 years.

Whilst this has been happening, the owners negotiated with the TV networks for networks to pay broadcast for rights in 2011 even if there are no games. This was set to get the owners $4b dollars this year which would have had to have been paid back eventually had their been no games. It was basically a $4b loan that the owners extorted out of the networks. 2 weeks ago, Judge Doty (who has been presiding over all NFL legal matters since 1993) ruled that this was against the rules of the CBA and the owners wouldnt get access to this money.

In that last 2 weeks, the owners offered to have an independent auditor (chosen by both the NFLPA and the owners) audit the last 2 years books of the franchises and tell the NFLPA how much profit each team has earned. The NFLPA, having been made more confident by the ruling by Justice Doty said "Stuff that, give us access to 10 years worth of books so we dont know you havent been hiding profits" (which has happened in the past). The owners said no. The NFLPA never even looked at the material that was offered - material that the franchises themselves dont see. They did this because they are confident they would win their legal cases and felt they could push the owners as much as they reasonably could

Now we have the NFLPA decertifying as a union, allowing individual players to sue the NFL for restraint of trade (an anti trust case). This is why Brady, Manning (Franchise tag), Mankins (franchise tag/RFA tenders), Von Miller (draft/rookie salary cap) etc are suing. The last time a player (Reggie White) sued the NFL in an anti trust case, the player won and Free Agency was allowed.

Sorry it was so long but its a fairly complicated situation. Overall, it is an argument based on money and a lack of trust.

 

[Woodson]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

This 'Lock-Out' is all about the NFLPA getting LEVERAGE.

Jim Quinn telling it as it is. Pash & Goodell have themselves to blame.

NFL.com Exclusive

 

[Dagless]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

This 'Lock-Out' is all about the NFLPA getting LEVERAGE.

Jim Quinn telling it as it is. Pash & Goodell have themselves to blame.

NFL.com Exclusive

You're a bit one sided in this whole discussion Woody. I know it's 'easier' and fun to pick on the 'big dogs' over the widdle innocent players though.

 

[Woodson]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

And here's what NFL Network Legal analyst, Gabe Feldman, had to say.

NFL.com exclusive

 

[Woodson]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

You're a bit one sided in this whole discussion Woody. I know it's 'easier' and fun to pick on the 'big dogs' over the widdle innocent players though.

Was I that obvious? Goodell, if he was on top of HIS GAME, this situation wouldn't in the fine mess that it is. As much as he states that he's taking a paycut, , what he really is failing to do is pulling up the owners about their books and that's why the anti-trust lawsuit is all about. The OWNERS have already negotiated a hefty sum ($4billion) with the TV networks to make a windfall even if their is NO football to be played so Goodell is really a knucklehead of a commissioner to let that happen. Clauses in players contracts BITE the players but why can't Goodell step in and do his job of gaining control of the situation without letting it escalate like it has??

 

[mcgarnacle]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

i think it's safe to come back now with the blow-ins long gone.................

im with you here zarko. the players arent an innocent party here at all.............they're hardly rattling the tins to make ends meet. their representative - Smith - has brought a typical lawyers adversarial aspect to his side of the negotiations. me thinks it wouldnt have got this far if Gene Upshaw were still alive to take the lead role on negotiations for the old NFLPA.

the owners are within their rights not to open up their books to the ex union and the world. afterall, they are private organisations and there are impacts that it may have to their franchise valuations, etc if all sundry could see how they economically perform. simply put, it is one of the benefits of remaining a private organisation.......your affairs are your own.

besides, give me another industry where employees demand the percentage of company profits as the NFLPA did?

 

[Burningleviathan]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Probably every other sporting league with a salary cap?

The owners want the players to take an 18 % pay cut. You are going to have to supply some evidence of a need for this, not just take their word for it. They have had two years now, surely at some point, they would of realised this.

 

[Woodson]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

the owners are within their rights not to open up their books to the ex union and the world. afterall, they are private organisations and there are impacts that it may have to their franchise valuations, etc if all sundry could see how they economically perform. simply put, it is one of the benefits of remaining a private organisation.......your affairs are your own.

besides, give me another industry where employees demand the percentage of company profits as the NFLPA did?

Who said these details need to be publically declared? Anti-trust is just that. Players are asking to have owners show their books. They simply don't trust them. Some clubs may be doing the right thing whilst others are not that's why a bunch of teams are under the microscope with the lawsuit. Would of thought it was obvious that the decertification was always a plan B and widely advertised if the owners didn't comply. Jeff Pash can sell ice to Eskimos but he failed with his lies to the NFLPA.

 

[Sven]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

One of the big problems under the Collective bargaining arrangements that were re-negotiated in 2006 was that the small market teams were placed at a big disadvantage due to the revenue generated by thelarge teams. An equalisation fund was set up, but I doubt if this produced anything like a level playing field for the owners.

The salary cap was based on the revenue from the previous season with $1 billion coming off the top for team expenses and then the remainder being divided 57.5% to the players and 42.5% to the teams. This arrangement caused an explosion in the salary cap from 2006 onwards.

1999 $58.4 million
2000 $62.2 million
2001 $67.5 million
2002 $71 million
2003 $75 million
2004 $80.5 million
2005 $85.5 million
2006 $102 million(new CBA)
2007 $109 million
2008 $116 million
2009 $127 million
2010 $138 million* (uncapped year, estimate based on previous year and stated 2011 numbers)
2011 $149 million* (would have been the salary cap under 2006 agreement)

For teams like the Redskins and the Cowboys there was no problem with the exploding salary cap because their total revenue was much higher than teams like the Bucs, Chiefs and Jaguars. To increase their (allegedly slim) profit margins the owners of the small revenue teams would underspend against the salary cap. I don’t know what happens to unspent salary cap money but my guess is that it goes straight into the pockets of the owners. You could argue that underspending against the salary cap is tantamount to stealing from the players. You only have to look at the salary spends of the teams in 2010 (the “uncapped year”) to see this effect in action. The team owners lined the pockets with money by spending way under what would have been the $138 million cap had the CBA been in effect. Such a situation would surely get the players quickly off-side.

An estimate of the salaries paid by each team was posted by profootballtalk in September last year. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...alary-cap-numbers-if-there-were-a-salary-cap/

These numbers show a staggering $500 million underspend against the likely salary cap for 2010 if the CBA had still been alive. I don’t blame the players for being extremely pissed off at such blatant pocket lining by the teams.

Here are the numbers….

Redskins: $178.2 million.
Cowboys: $166.5 million.
Saints: $145.0 million.
Vikings: $143.4 million.
Seahawks: $138.8 million.
Jets: $135.7 million.
Packers: $135.3 million.
Raiders: $135.2 million.
Colts: $133.1 million.
Bears: $131.9 million.
Eagles: $131.0 million.
Patriots: $128.8 million.
Giants: $128.6 million.
49ers: $125.9 million.
Dolphins: $123.8 million.
Texans: $123.1 million.
Lions: $122.9 million.
Steelers: $122.9 million.
Browns: $122.8 million.
Ravens: $122.3 million.
Falcons: $118.5 million.
Titans: $118.0 million.
Panthers: $110.9 million.
Rams: $109.1 million.
Chargers: $108.0 million.
Bills: $105.3 million.
Broncos: $102.9 million.
Bengals: $100.8 million.
Cardinals: $97.8 million.
Jaguars: $89.5 million.
Chiefs: $84.5 million.
Buccaneers: $80.8 million.
Average salary spend: 122.5 million
Total underspend: 494.7 million

Although these numbers come from only a single source, but they provide some insight into where the players are coming from.

 

[exe ex machina]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Remember, there was the Bidwell Rule enforced, due to Cards owner Bidwell being notorious for underspending to line his pockets. Rule enforced that teams must not fall under 33% unused or something like that.

Goes to show, a small-market team like the Raiders, and Al Davis spending top money always trying to win. Worth noting, the last CBA occurred due to the efforts of Al Davis in getting it done, who has always championed the players. Having Gene Upshaw as Union Boss in his corner.

 

[Sven]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Remember, there was the Bidwell Rule enforced, due to Cards owner Bidwell being notorious for underspending to line his pockets. Rule enforced that teams must not fall under 33% unused or something like that.

Goes to show, a small-market team like the Raiders, and Al Davis spending top money always trying to win. Worth noting, the last CBA occurred due to the efforts of Al Davis in getting it done, who has always championed the players. Having Gene Upshaw as Union Boss in his corner.

The salary cap floor was increasing by 1.2% every year, and in 2009 (the last year of the CBA) was at 87.6%. If the CBA was still in effect the 2011 floor would have been 90%.

Nice observation about Al Davis, and I've got to put my two cents worth in for Zygi Wilf who bought the Vikings franchise from Red McCombs. McCombs was a notorious underspender, whereas Wilf has pursued a Championship and has spent accordingly. Like Davis though (well, recently anyway), with limited success.....

 

[harmesy 37]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

I just went onto the NFL website to check the latest on this and quite frankly I stopped reading after a few paragraphs. Seeing photos of lawyers front and centre didn't help in my motivation to read this.

The lawyers' job is to create disunion, to create acrimony and for multi-millionaires to be fighting with multi-billionaires over money to many on the outside seems just so out of the realm of real life experiences for the majority you can't help but pour scorn on the whole lot of them - which is what lawyers would want...adds to the volatile mix and more money to the lawyers...the more it drags on the more happy lawyers there will be. they are pigs at a money trough. listen to the song piggies by the beatles for confirmation of what lawyers are about.

 

[Woodson]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Here's a Q & A with the Steelers' Owner Art Rooney II, which sheds alot of light about what the heck happened during the week of calamity peace talks.

Puts alot of things in perspective now about why the Owners are disappointed and the big story that stunned me was the NFLPA non-reaction to the third party auditing process.

READ ABOUT it HERE FOLKS.


Those who are totally confused, have no idea what the hold up is, will hopefully get all they need to know in this aforementioned link.

The only thing I'm still laughing at is Goodell's new direction (he gonna be pissed more than ever now!!) to find a way to F*** the Pats/ Colts/Saints over.

 

[Woodson]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Flashback to the 1987 Strike Season..

Looking back, '87 strike brought mixed emotions

At halftime, coach Marv Levy approached Grant and said, "Will, what in the world is going on out there? You have been called for holding six times in just one half!"

"Hey, Coach, that's really good," Grant said. "Because I've been holding him every down."

 

[mad_eagle]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

This is turning into a bitch fight real quick...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/news/story?id=6216135

By Adam Schefter ESPN.com

The NFL Players Association is putting into place a plan that would prevent each top college prospect from attending next month's draft in New York, according to multiple league sources. The NFLPA already has contacted 17 top prospects who ordinarily would have received an invitation to attend the draft and informed them not to go.
Later Monday, a source said the edict is a recommendation, not an explicit order not to attend the draft. The source said the union plans to give the prospects the "same experience down the street."
If the draftees do not attend, when NFL commissioner Roger Goodell announces the name of the first player selected, the player will not walk onto the stage at Radio City Music Hall as has been the custom. And the player will not be there to do interviews with ESPN or NFL Network. The draft will go on, but not in the manner in which it has been conducted before.

The article also suggests that the NFLPA has gone as far as suggesting it will "place" draftees on competing television networks for their first post-pick interviews. What a Sh1t fight!!!

I would not like to be Cam Newton, A.J. Green, Nick Fairley etc. right now

 

[Tassie19Cairns20]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Was I that obvious? Goodell, if he was on top of HIS GAME, this situation wouldn't in the fine mess that it is. As much as he states that he's taking a paycut, , what he really is failing to do is pulling up the owners about their books and that's why the anti-trust lawsuit is all about. The OWNERS have already negotiated a hefty sum ($4billion) with the TV networks to make a windfall even if their is NO football to be played so Goodell is really a knucklehead of a commissioner to let that happen. Clauses in players contracts BITE the players but why can't Goodell step in and do his job of gaining control of the situation without letting it escalate like it has??

I too am a bit confused about your views that Goodell is the villain in this whole fiasco. I think you're giving Goodell more power than he actually has. This battle is between the Owners and the Players. That's it. All Goodell really is is essentially a spokesman for the collective voice of the owners. He can't make any decisions in this matter because this matter doesn't involve him. Like I said, it's the owners vs. the players. If the owners don't want to show their books, Goodell can't do anything about it. The owners are in their own right to do as they please. And the $4 Billion has already been ruled as untouchable by David Doty.

This CBA that was voted 30-2 by owners(Bills and Bengals voted against) was done before Goodell was commissioner. The owners realized that they made a dumb deal, and decided to opt out. But that 2006 vote was done before Goodell was even the commissioner, so if you want to blame anyone for presiding over the spark that lit the lockout, blame Paul Tagliabue.

I think Goodell's 5 year reign as Commissioner has been great. The personal conduct policy has been an overwhelming success, his reign has had ZERO franchise relocations, games are being played overseas, and a vast majority of teams have built and are playing in state of the art stadia. He has no part in this lockout. It's the Owners vs. Players. Not Goodell vs. Players.

My villain in this is De Smith, a man with no football background. Players originally liked him because he was a "tough-guy" and now he feels the need to keep up that persona, at the expense of truly speaking for the collective wills of the players. Sure the high-paid players like Brees, Manning, and Brady are behind him, but I suggest taking a look at what the lower paid reserve lineman, 3rd string QB's, and practice squad players really wanted De Smith to do at the negotiating table.

 

[Sven]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

.......

My villain in this is De Smith, a man with no football background. Players originally liked him because he was a "tough-guy" and now he feels the need to keep up that persona, at the expense of truly speaking for the collective wills of the players. Sure the high-paid players like Brees, Manning, and Brady are behind him, but I suggest taking a look at what the lower paid reserve lineman, 3rd string QB's, and practice squad players really wanted De Smith to do at the negotiating table.

I believe the players are entirely within their rights to take the stance they have taken. It was the owners that opted out of the CBA, not the players, and the owners did so because some stated they couldn't make money out of the NFL as the CBA stood.

If team A cries poor, but won't show any financial records apart from a profit/loss statement, then there is the perception that team A has something to hide. Detailed financial records will likely have to be provided at some stage in front of a court, so why the teams decided to take this approach is beyond me.

If the detailed financial records team A show a loss, and team A has highly paid family members on its staff, who are all using the team private jet for their own purposes and contributing to the loss then the sham will be exposed.

Everyone should note that the $4 billion TV rights "loan" has been ruled invalid and the courts have correctly seen that such an arrangement was only negotiated to benefit the owners, not the owner and the players as it should have been. The courts seem to be the only place where fairness can be determined.

The next step (on April 8) is that the players will argue, in court, that the lockout is a restraint of trade and is therefore illegal. Such a ruling will allow free-agency to recommence and for some normalcy to return to the NFL. If free-agency does go forward, I supremely doubt that all of the owners will opt out of the process.

 

[Woodson]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Also worth noting:

Smith also said he wanted teams to contribute what, ultimately, would be millions into what he called "a legacy fund" that would better support retired players.

Most of his focus, however, was on getting a new CBA.

"I really and truly in my heart believe we'll get a deal done," NFLPA president Kevin Mawae said. "But there's going to have to be some give and some take and not just taking from one side all the way."

The league's response, in part, said that teams like the Green Bay Packers -- whose audited financial statements are the only ones the union said it has seen -- have had a 40 percent decline in profits.

source: NFL Yahoo.com

 

[Anno_Domini]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Did you all hear AP calling the players "Modern Day Slaves"?

So stupid.

 

[Woodson]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Did you all hear AP calling the players "Modern Day Slaves"?

So stupid.

Just an opinion on how he perceives it all. However the likes of Ryan Grant (Packers RB) & Heath Evans (Saints FB) have scoffed at those claims and called him out for being ignorant. Peterson is believed to rake in OVER a lazy 10 mil next season.

source: Shutdown Corner

Commissioner adresses LOCK OUT.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

So do you think he makes a good point?

I don't really see how slavery is comparable. They're not forced to play the game. And they won't get shot by the team owners if they decide to leave the team.

It's just a horrible analogy. What they are overpaid people in a country where money is king.

 

[Woodson]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

So do you think he makes a good point?

I don't really see how slavery is comparable. They're not forced to play the game. And they won't get shot by the team owners if they decide to leave the team.

It's just a horrible analogy. What they are overpaid people in a country where money is king.

Everyone has a story/ experience to tell. AP obviously has issues/ something eating him up inside. I don't agree at all with his 'distorted analogy' and believe you're so spot on there. Don't even think it's newsworthy matter of fact. I gather that AP is choosing to row, row, row the DeMaurice Smith boat up the LOCK OUT stream to emphasis the NFLPA's stance. Glad other players have called him out.

I also gather that some? / many NFL players are perhaps thinking WTF is going on with the decertification of their own union?? No player will dare speak out atm but you have to wonder why only just 10 players are filing for the anti-trust lawsuit and not a representative from each club. Just weird where this is all heading.

GG was Over these issues before Thanxgiving rolled around. Good to have a mod who isn't sitting on his hands.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Everyone has a story/ experience to tell. AP obviously has issues/ something eating him up inside. I don't agree at all with his 'distorted analogy' and believe you're so spot on there. Don't even think it's newsworthy matter of fact. I gather that AP is choosing to row, row, row the DeMaurice Smith boat up the LOCK OUT stream to emphasis the NFLPA's stance. Glad other players have called him out.

Yeah, there are a numerous amount of possibilities as to why he thought using that analogy was a good idea. No doubt it runs deeper. But even if it's a cultural thing, I just don't see how slavery can be compared with anything, except for actual slavery in 3rd world type countries.

I also gather that some? / many NFL players are perhaps thinking WTF is going on with the decertification of their own union?? No player will dare speak out atm but you have to wonder why only just 10 players are filing for the anti-trust lawsuit and not a representative from each club. Just weird where this is all heading.

I know Manning and Brady both filed the lawsuit, but my memory from there is a bit shoddy. Were the 10 guys all big-time players, or were they all different types?