NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

[exe ex machina]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

And another good read to get one's head around it...

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...g-down-the-details-in-the-nfl-lockout-hearing

.

 

[USACats]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Roger Goodell is an insufferable asshat that has his priorities of money, money, and more money ahead of player's rights. I've felt this way since he took over for Tags, and years before this lockout. Goodell came in and wanted to overhaul the game, and has acted like a tyrant since Day One. Take me back to the days of Rozell or Tags, when the NFL was fun to watch.

I don't think us normal, middle-classers can take sides with either group whining over $9 billion, but it's very hard to be on the league's side here. Of course, if the players didn't start their PR campaign and shoved it down every fan's throat ("Let Us Play" and remember the annoying solidarity deal during the pregame?), I'd be a little more receptive to them. Still, I don't find myself on either side of the argument. I think both sides have dropped the ball on negotiations.

 

[Tassie19Cairns20]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Roger Goodell is an insufferable asshat that has his priorities of money, money, and more money ahead of player's rights. I've felt this way since he took over for Tags, and years before this lockout. Goodell came in and wanted to overhaul the game, and has acted like a tyrant since Day One. Take me back to the days of Rozell or Tags, when the NFL was fun to watch.

I don't think us normal, middle-classers can take sides with either group whining over $9 billion, but it's very hard to be on the league's side here. Of course, if the players didn't start their PR campaign and shoved it down every fan's throat ("Let Us Play" and remember the annoying solidarity deal during the pregame?), I'd be a little more receptive to them. Still, I don't find myself on either side of the argument. I think both sides have dropped the ball on negotiations.

Yeah, the old NFL was so fun to watch. A total of 7 teams winning every Super Bowl from 1975 to 1996 sure made the game exciting under Rozelle and Tagliabue . Not to mention team relocation, which almost seemed like an annual thing under their reigns.

Roger Goodell is the best commissioner any American Sports league has ever had because unlike everyone else, he's not scared to stand up to arrogant players acting out of line and tell them, "It's a privilege to play in the NFL, not a right. Shape up your act, or you're going to get suspended." We all talk about the St. Kilda scandal, and the lack of punishment all around. One can only imagine what would've happened if Goodell was commissioner of the AFL.

 

[DB10]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/26225/derrick-mason-roger-goodell-is-a-joke

Derrick Mason:

"He's been on this crusade about HGH, but he needs to be on a crusade about getting these owners together and trying to work out a deal," Mason said on the "Norris and Davis Show" on 107.5 in Baltimore. "To me, he's a joke, because every time I look, he's talking about performance enhancements instead of talking about trying to figure out a way to make sure football is played in August."

 

[USACats]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Roger Goodell is the best commissioner any American Sports league has ever had

Not even close. Three of the Big Four current ones- Selig (baseball), Bettman (NHL), and Goodell are all horrible. MLB had some great commissioners before Selig, but Selig is really bad.

David Stern (NBA) is VERY good. Doesn't seek out the spotlight like Goodell, yet has taken a league that had nothing really going for it when he took it over in 1984 to something with international popularity. I'm not an NBA guy, but I wish that most commissioners were like him. Think of the NBA pre-1984. Now, think about the NBA in the 90s and 00s. Stern has done a fantastic job.

Everyone's gripe with Goodell over here is he is trying hard to be a celebrity. He's released a handful of letters to the fans, and people are just tired of his BS. His $1 salary went over as a stunt. His letters were another. He has been booed numerous times during speeches. I, like many, am just tired of him. The game has suffered.

 

[Dagless]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

To be fair, Stern is a ****ing cheat

 

[USACats]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

One more Goodell point: With the league and players fighting over a small piece of the respective pie and that piece is NINE BILLION DOLLARS, how are several teams struggling to survive? Jags, Vikes, Chargers, Dolphins, Bills, Raiders, Bucs, and a few more have been rumored to be looking at other options, be it relocation and whatnot. Under Goodell and his theory of gathering billions in tv cash and creating their own network, how are teams still losing money?

And Stern will never fess up to anything that may be shady! Haha (looking at you, rumored MJ suspension for gambling)

 

[Tassie19Cairns20]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Not even close. Three of the Big Four current ones- Selig (baseball), Bettman (NHL), and Goodell are all horrible. MLB had some great commissioners before Selig, but Selig is really bad.

David Stern (NBA) is VERY good. Doesn't seek out the spotlight like Goodell, yet has taken a league that had nothing really going for it when he took it over in 1984 to something with international popularity. I'm not an NBA guy, but I wish that most commissioners were like him. Think of the NBA pre-1984. Now, think about the NBA in the 90s and 00s. Stern has done a fantastic job.

Everyone's gripe with Goodell over here is he is trying hard to be a celebrity. He's released a handful of letters to the fans, and people are just tired of his BS. His $1 salary went over as a stunt. His letters were another. He has been booed numerous times during speeches. I, like many, am just tired of him. The game has suffered.

There is no way that David Stern, who presides over a game where 21 of the 30 franchises are operating at a loss, can be considered a good commissioner, let alone be in the same sentence as Roger Goodell. Stern's resume includes aiding the theft of professional basketball from Seattle, and concealing the truth about referees who admitted to fixing match outcomes, most importantly Game 6 of the 2002 Western Conference Finals.

Meanwhile Goodell has got players to be accountable for their off-field actions, and has grown the game into having regular season games played overseas. There's no comparison at all between Goodell and Stern.

 

[Tassie19Cairns20]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

One more Goodell point: With the league and players fighting over a small piece of the respective pie and that piece is NINE BILLION DOLLARS, how are several teams struggling to survive? Jags, Vikes, Chargers, Dolphins, Bills, Raiders, Bucs, and a few more have been rumored to be looking at other options, be it relocation and whatnot. Under Goodell and his theory of gathering billions in tv cash and creating their own network, how are teams still losing money?

And Stern will never fess up to anything that may be shady! Haha (looking at you, rumored MJ suspension for gambling)

None of those teams you mentioned are struggling to survive. Some teams (Raiders, Bills, Vikings, Chargers, Rams) want new stadiums to replace their old ones. Financially they are all healthy. And none of that has anything to do with Roger Goodell.

 

[drd23]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

There is no way that David Stern, who presides over a game where 21 of the 30 franchises are operating at a loss, can be considered a good commissioner, let alone be in the same sentence as Roger Goodell. Stern's resume includes aiding the theft of professional basketball from Seattle, and concealing the truth about referees who admitted to fixing match outcomes, most importantly Game 6 of the 2002 Western Conference Finals.

Got to agree with this point. And you can add the purchasing of the NO Hornets to use as a threat of contraction against the players to the list of bad things he's done.

Stern is by no means a good commissioner

 

[USACats]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

None of those teams you mentioned are struggling to survive. Some teams (Raiders, Bills, Vikings, Chargers, Rams) want new stadiums to replace their old ones. Financially they are all healthy. And none of that has anything to do with Roger Goodell.

The Bills have been playing in Toronto trying to gain revenue. The Jags are drawing dead at this point (-16% in value for 2010). How is this not Goodell's issue if he represents the owners and their interests? The Rams just had to go back to Stan Kroenke after only one other bid came decently close to what the Rosenbloom family was looking for.

The league set a record for blackouts in local markets last year too, so attendance is down in several traditional markets (those without new stadiums). Fourth straight year the attendance has dropped overall, and Roger has only been in office for five seasons. Goodell had also changed the rules and intensity of the game. You used to be able to hit. Now you lose a paycheck, yet the NFL sells those photos of the "illegal" hit on their own website. Again, all about the money with Roger. He is a walking publicity stunt that has soured.

I hate that Stern/NBA runs a club, but he is also proactive to relocation if needed. And he doesn't have any issue with suspending guys, even for a season (Ron Artest). His international success with the NBA speaks for itself. The NBA needs revenue sharing, and that is a main sticking point with their upcoming lockout, I believe. Personally, I'm not an NBA guy because I think the talent is a bit watered down. Contracting a couple teams would help, but then again, the NBA is probably the most successful international sports league other than the EPL, and that all came with Stern.

The players pulling guns, dogfighting, beating their wives, etc would get suspended in any league.

And the cherry on top: under Goodell, in 2010, 21 franchises lost value, 2 teams operated at a loss, and 7 were flat. All of this as NFL tv money goes up. http://www.marketingcharts.com/direct/nfl-team-values-fall-2-14039/

 

[USACats]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

And you can add the purchasing of the NO Hornets to use as a threat of contraction against the players to the list of bad things he's done.

Contraction of about three squads would do the NBA wonders. Still amazed Charlotte got another team, and he allowed OKC to grab the Sonics. There are others. League is watered down. But the fact that Stern singlehandedly created the NBA into an international monster and created innovations that other leagues are looking to adopt gets him the title of a pretty damn good commish.

Like I said, revenue sharing will be the NBA's battle this summer. Stern has to get that done to cut losses. The NBA will more than likely get locked out for awhile too.

 

[USACats]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

There is no way that David Stern, who presides over a game where 21 of the 30 franchises are operating at a loss, can be considered a good commissioner, let alone be in the same sentence as Roger Goodell.

However, if NBA commissioner David Stern gets his way, an imbecile would be able to make money running a team. Stern wants to lop $750 million off of player costs, lowering the portion of basketball-related revenue that goes to players from 57% to around 40%. If Stern succeeds, even teams like the Hornets, who were thought to be headed for bankruptcy before the NBA rescued the franchise, would immediately rise at least 30% in value because potential buyers would know they don’t run the risk of writing checks to cover operating losses.

http://blogs.forbes.com/mikeozanian/2011/01/26/the-nbas-most-valuable-teams-2/

There aren't 21 operating at a loss according to this piece and the average value of an NBA team has risen 1%.

 

[exe ex machina]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Thought this article would be a little ironic to post here...

Brady-Bundchen Building $20M Mansion (pics included)


.

 

[Burningleviathan]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

She would be worth a bit as well.

 

[Tassie19Cairns20]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

There aren't 21 operating at a loss according to this piece and the average value of an NBA team has risen 1%.

You are correct, there are not 21 teams operating at a loss under David Stern........there are 25 to 27!!!

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/02/14/stern-nba-teams-losing-400-million-salaries-must-be-cut/

A source said Thursday that 25 to 27 of the NBA's 30 teams will lose money this season.

 

[Tassie19Cairns20]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

The Bills have been playing in Toronto trying to gain revenue. The Jags are drawing dead at this point (-16% in value for 2010). How is this not Goodell's issue if he represents the owners and their interests? The Rams just had to go back to Stan Kroenke after only one other bid came decently close to what the Rosenbloom family was looking for.

The league set a record for blackouts in local markets last year too, so attendance is down in several traditional markets (those without new stadiums). Fourth straight year the attendance has dropped overall, and Roger has only been in office for five seasons. Goodell had also changed the rules and intensity of the game. You used to be able to hit. Now you lose a paycheck, yet the NFL sells those photos of the "illegal" hit on their own website. Again, all about the money with Roger. He is a walking publicity stunt that has soured.

I hate that Stern/NBA runs a club, but he is also proactive to relocation if needed. And he doesn't have any issue with suspending guys, even for a season (Ron Artest). His international success with the NBA speaks for itself. The NBA needs revenue sharing, and that is a main sticking point with their upcoming lockout, I believe. Personally, I'm not an NBA guy because I think the talent is a bit watered down. Contracting a couple teams would help, but then again, the NBA is probably the most successful international sports league other than the EPL, and that all came with Stern.

The players pulling guns, dogfighting, beating their wives, etc would get suspended in any league.

And the cherry on top: under Goodell, in 2010, 21 franchises lost value, 2 teams operated at a loss, and 7 were flat. All of this as NFL tv money goes up. http://www.marketingcharts.com/direct/nfl-team-values-fall-2-14039/

Trust me, I know about my Bills. Our selling games to Toronto has nothing to do with us losing money. It's to grow our fanbase into an NFL untapped metropolitan area, that happens to be the 5th biggest metropolitan area in North America. It's sort of like what Hawthorn is doing in Tasmania. They're growing their base, while remaining a Melbourne club first and foremost.

I don't know why you included the Rams. The Rams are fortunate a Missouri based business man purchased the remaining shares of the team, instead of being run from the Rosenbloom family from Los Angeles, as they had been doing. And yes you are correct about the Jaguars, I will give you that. It was a mistake for Jacksonville to have been awarded a franchise in the first place, but they're locked into an almost un-breakable lease, other wise they'd already be in Los Angeles.

 

[exe ex machina]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

I have a theory/conspiracy.

The reason the NFLPA* will not formally agree to a new CBA is because the whole exercise is about getting a result with the anti-trust case. To finally have that generic issue in sport re-opened in court. It’s perhaps even being driven by forces above and outside the players themselves. Look how many anti-trust lawsuits are occurring at the moment related to football: the NFL, American Needle, EA Sports.

Example…Wasn’t there a Senator about two or three ago who threatened Goodell with anti-trust investigation into League practices unless Goodell provided some information about TV deals or something, which he refused to?

 

[Tassie19Cairns20]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Example…Wasn’t there a Senator about two or three ago who threatened Goodell with anti-trust investigation into League practices unless Goodell provided some information about TV deals or something, which he refused to?

I think what you're referring to was Arlen Specter, who was a senator from Pennsylvania, and an Eagles fan. He wanted to sue the NFL because he felt the NFL didn't do a thorough job of investigating the Patriots and their Spygate scandal, which he thought went much deeper than what was leaked to the media.

 

[exe ex machina]

There was that, but I'm recalling something that only happened fairly recently. Congress itself I think threatened the NFL with anti-trust investigation into their practices unless Goodell provided information which he refused to do.

Since then, we've had the NFLPA decertify, with Kessler's 'vision' clearly behind it, to re-open the whole anti-trust issue that will have far-reaching consequences in sport should it win. We've also had other anti-trust litigations occurring too (as mentioned above).

Also, think about how many rookie players are starting up anti-trust suits against the NFL. There was another two rookies the last couple days who filed them (apart from Von Miller). Yet to be drafted rookies would never do this unless bigger puppet masters were pulling strings. I mean puppet masters outside of football itself.

The whole labor/anti-trust issue in sport is a topic that's been brewing for decades to have settled once and for all by the courts. A CBA in itself is always a means to avoid that for the NFL. Sport has had anti-trust exemptions for a long time, but it's becoming untenable and ever-complicated and probably need to be addressed once and for all.

 

[larkis]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Trust me, I know about my Bills. Our selling games to Toronto has nothing to do with us losing money. It's to grow our fanbase into an NFL untapped metropolitan area, that happens to be the 5th biggest metropolitan area in North America. It's sort of like what Hawthorn is doing in Tasmania. They're growing their base, while remaining a Melbourne club first and foremost.

I don't know why you included the Rams. The Rams are fortunate a Missouri based business man purchased the remaining shares of the team, instead of being run from the Rosenbloom family from Los Angeles, as they had been doing. And yes you are correct about the Jaguars, I will give you that. It was a mistake for Jacksonville to have been awarded a franchise in the first place, but they're locked into an almost un-breakable lease, other wise they'd already be in Los Angeles.

I thought it was about Buffalo wanting to move into the Canadian market permanently? As the two New York teams continue to grow their market share, Buffalo will eventually have to become Canada's team. This should also help them in the recruitment of CFL stars to help them remain competitive in the AFC East.

The Rams are an example of poor ownership for the last 20 years. When you have a guy based in LA making all the decisions for the owner (The guy has no risk involved in his decisions, just needs to do whatever the owner wants ... eg Move to St Louis), the franchise was eventually going to be ran into the ground. Rams however lucked out and acquired Dick Vermeil, Kurt Warner, trading for Marshall Faulk with Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt being class acts.

There are numerous teams dragging the NFL down such as the Rams, Lions and Jaguars. However with teams performing poorly, other NFL teams are mixing in their financial records with these teams to show the NFL as a whole is in poor condition to gain a better deal for the owners. In the end the players will be paying for the poor ownership of a few.

USACats, thanks for the link to NFL team values. If player costs are increasing by 4%, then I don't see what the fuss is about. It's just keeping up with the same rate of cost of living.

 

[Tassie19Cairns20]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

I thought it was about Buffalo wanting to move into the Canadian market permanently? As the two New York teams continue to grow their market share, Buffalo will eventually have to become Canada's team. This should also help them in the recruitment of CFL stars to help them remain competitive in the AFC East.

The Bills fans that sell out every Bills home game want the Bills in Buffalo, the Bills fans from the rest of Western New York and Canada want the Bills in Buffalo, and Roger Goodell(a Western New Yorker himself) wants the Bills in Buffalo. Ralph Wilson has said that as long as he's alive the Bills will be in Buffalo. There is uncertainty regarding what will happen when he dies, but Los Angeles businessmen have an equal if not greater chance to buy the team than anyone from Toronto does. Hopefully the Sabres owner, or a Jim Kelly consortium steps up.

Your point about the two New York city teams' growing market share doesn't make sense. Western New York's market has as much to do with New York City, as Broken Hill's market has to do with Sydney. The Bills dominate West and Upstate New York, and hopefully the Golden Horseshoe in Canada too.

 

[Burningleviathan]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

A good conversation about the whole lawsuit issue
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22825103/vp/42478812#42478812

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

Sorry if this has been answered but haven't seen it anywhere but is there going to be an NFL season next year? I've been watching the last two seasons and gradually getting more and more into it and would absolutely hate it if there was no season to continue watching come October 2011.

 

[MarcusP2]

Re: NFL Lockout 'A Certainty'

We don't know yet, but probably. Everybody loses billions of dollars with a truncated/lost season, and it's insanely damaging to the league.