Analysis Making the Top 4 and building to a flag. 4TH is IRRELEVANT, MAKE IT TOP 3

[Portia]

Key position depth needs:
- to not have a history of soft tissue injuries
- to be tall enough to take on most key position forwards (Silvagni 191cm) close to one on one, not relying on a Ross Lyon `everything is defence' game plan to cover their deficiency.
- maybe isn't a 28 year old with 50 games because he can't get on the park.

If you want arrogant and shortsighted its someone who doesn't follow our club coming in here and telling us that our defence would clearly be improved by chasing a guy who has played a grand total of 14 games in the past three seasons. We're looking to delist or trade out guys that are better value than Silvagni.

 

[Lagooner]

The only thing I can recall about Alex Silvagni is that he got absolutely destroyed by Walker in the 2012 SF against the Crers.

 

[SouthSwans]

Key position depth needs:
- to not have a history of soft tissue injuries
- to be tall enough to take on most key position forwards (Silvagni 191cm) close to one on one, not relying on a Ross Lyon `everything is defence' game plan to cover their deficiency.
- maybe isn't a 28 year old with 50 games because he can't get on the park.

If you want arrogant and shortsighted its someone who doesn't follow our club coming in here and telling us that our defence would clearly be improved by chasing a guy who has played a grand total of 14 games in the past three seasons. We're looking to delist or trade out guys that are better value than Silvagni.

The guy can play mate, despite his injuries and the lack of games and not being one of Ross's favourites, he's an excellent reader of the ball in the air, is athletic and pretty talented. I never said he'd win you a flag but he'd give you a better chance of making the eight next year, even if it is for depth. I edited my arrogant and shortsighted comment, as you said probably not words to be throwing around on opposition boards, I'm just thinking out loud problem solving and brainstorming ideas, probably more dogmatically than I should be but I can be a bit that way sometimes.

 

[Portia]

Despite the inexperience of Austin and Clurey, defence is probably our strongest area of the ground right now. When it comes to giving up any trade or draft capital to get players, we need to be using it on midfield/half forwards (midsize and tall)

Any defenders we add need to be basically free, and need to be fit & resilient enough to be available if we need to pick them. Silvagni is a hard fail on that last one; we'd be idiots to believe we might be the lucky ones to get his healthy season

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Haha how has my 8 year old thread about basically the facts of how premiership teams have been built - end up being a discussion about a plodder like Silvagni?

 

[SouthSwans]

Haha how has my 8 year old thread about basically the facts of how premiership teams have been built - end up being a discussion about a plodder like Silvagni?

Sorry TBH I just waltzed in here furiously searching for anything to talk about to take my mind off the Grand Final, just read the OP now and it's a great piece RussellEbertHandball but not much to do with what I was banging on about lol.

I'll leave quietly now.

 

[philreich]

Sorry TBH I just waltzed in here furiously searching for anything to talk about to take my mind off the Grand Final, just read the OP now and it's a great piece RussellEbertHandball but not much to do with what I was banging on about lol.

I'll leave quietly now.

Mate we don't mind Sydney too much after they knocked the Crows out - the Swans did us a huge favour!!!

We'd like the club even more if they lose to Port in 2017

 

[NEGAN]

Alex had a great wafl gf. Actually st wafl level he is a demon. But that's the level where he belongs.

 

[Hellgood]

Yeah Silvagni is very much a battler at AFL level. I don't think he'd add much to our (or most AFL clubs for that matter) list.

The Dogs are a good case study though. Their two best in Wood and Morris have been around for a long time - Wood's made exponential progress in the last two to three years after being best described as serviceable prior to then whereas Morris has been blue chip it seems for probably about a dozen years now.

Saw a bit of Hamling pre-draft and liked what was there. Very skinny, but you could see that there was a fair bit of potential at either end of the ground with that rangy athleticism. Not surprising Wells at Geelong loved him and selected him a fair bit earlier than was expected. The Cats did a really good job at developing throughout a lengthy four year course in their VFL side, got exposure up forward earlier on to reasonable effect but then found his niche in the backline. Got some big game experience too considering the success Geelong's seconds had over that stretch. Unfortunately for them, they couldn't accommodate him with a promotion to the AFL side with such an accomplished set of key defenders and in the end something had to give (not sure if it were he who initiated the delisting knowing the new system). Didn't overly standout for the Dogs throughout the year, but they persisted and bloody hell what a brilliant return they had from him for the whole month of September.

Roberts also played a fair bit of footy up forward as a kid IIRC and has benefited (or suffered depending on your perspective) from that indefinite role of tall utility.

Guess the moral of these stories (and also Robbie Tarrant who won North's B&F this year after being drafted in 2007, pretty amazing to think he;s been around the AFL for a decade having only really broken through in 2014/15) are:
1. Persistence, persistence, persistence.
2. Key defenders don't necessarily need to have been bred from an early age to play that role to end up very successful at it.
3. Perspective obtained from playing both ends of the ground often is looked at as a curse, may be a blessing

 

[FishingRick04]

I wouldn't discount White from the midfield mix, he speed was sorely mixed. It was a truly cursed season for us!

Yes, if Broadbent and Hartlett are more predominantly midfield base, yes our midfield runs a lot deeper. I'd rather Hartlett bust his gut and play midfield and pull a hammy than a 50% Hartlett hiding in defence!

The coaches need to pull their finger out, rather than refining a working system, we panicked and overhauled it to have no system! Our playing style became vanilla

 

[SouthSwans]

Yeah Silvagni is very much a battler at AFL level. I don't think he'd add much to our (or most AFL clubs for that matter) list.

The Dogs are a good case study though. Their two best in Wood and Morris have been around for a long time - Wood's made exponential progress in the last two to three years after being best described as serviceable prior to then whereas Morris has been blue chip it seems for probably about a dozen years now.

Saw a bit of Hamling pre-draft and liked what was there. Very skinny, but you could see that there was a fair bit of potential at either end of the ground with that rangy athleticism. Not surprising Wells at Geelong loved him and selected him a fair bit earlier than was expected. The Cats did a really good job at developing throughout a lengthy four year course in their VFL side, got exposure up forward earlier on to reasonable effect but then found his niche in the backline. Got some big game experience too considering the success Geelong's seconds had over that stretch. Unfortunately for them, they couldn't accommodate him with a promotion to the AFL side with such an accomplished set of key defenders and in the end something had to give (not sure if it were he who initiated the delisting knowing the new system). Didn't overly standout for the Dogs throughout the year, but they persisted and bloody hell what a brilliant return they had from him for the whole month of September.

Roberts also played a fair bit of footy up forward as a kid IIRC and has benefited (or suffered depending on your perspective) from that indefinite role of tall utility.

Guess the moral of these stories (and also Robbie Tarrant who won North's B&F this year after being drafted in 2007, pretty amazing to think he;s been around the AFL for a decade having only really broken through in 2014/15) are:
1. Persistence, persistence, persistence.
2. Key defenders don't necessarily need to have been bred from an early age to play that role to end up very successful at it.
3. Perspective obtained from playing both ends of the ground often is looked at as a curse, may be a blessing

Yep LRT, Richards, Grundy, Harry Taylor, Brian Lake and even Steve Silvagni and Justin Leppitsch back in the day have had great days in the forward half, all great readers of the ball in the air and back themselves to fly for their marks.

Now may be a chance in the pre-season - only if the rest of the forward group is fit and firing - to get the the Hoff up-and-about and committed to help the fellas in the back six, if he were to become passionate towards being your main intercepting defender he may be a similar type to those mentioned earlier.

*I said I'd go away but couldn't help myself lol

 

[OneGreatClub]

I wouldn't discount White from the midfield mix, he speed was sorely mixed. It was a truly cursed season for us!

Yes, if Broadbent and Hartlett are more predominantly midfield base, yes our midfield runs a lot deeper. I'd rather Hartlett bust his gut and play midfield and pull a hammy than a 50% Hartlett hiding in defence!

The coaches need to pull their finger out, rather than refining a working system, we panicked and overhauled it to have no system! Our playing style became vanilla

this

 

[PJ Power]

Is there anything that precludes us playing Broadbent as a full-time midfielder? He was great there in the Primus era.

 

[Zakk Wylde]

Get SLivlagni to make us better ?? **** me !!

 

[Dalphonso]

I wouldn't discount White from the midfield mix, he speed was sorely mixed. It was a truly cursed season for us!

Yes, if Broadbent and Hartlett are more predominantly midfield base, yes our midfield runs a lot deeper. I'd rather Hartlett bust his gut and play midfield and pull a hammy than a 50% Hartlett hiding in defence!

The coaches need to pull their finger out, rather than refining a working system, we panicked and overhauled it to have no system! Our playing style became vanilla

What do you mean by the term "vanilla?" I see it regularly on here but am not young and hip enough the understand what you are actually referring to.

 

[Zakk Wylde]

What do you mean by the term "vanilla?" I see it regularly on here but am not young and hip enough the understand what you are actually referring to.

Plain / Boring / No clear outstanding traits.

 

[Forzaport]

Plain / Boring / No clear outstanding traits.

Even vanilla isn't vanilla anymore. Now it's French vanilla. I'm still partial to salted caramel, Tim Tam slam and Ferrero Rocher

 

[Janus]

Analysis of performance based on percentage per game for the 2016 season. The red line is our percentage at the end of the year.

R2 (Adelaide), R4 (GWS), R5 (Geelong), R20 (Sydney) and R21 (Melbourne) were sides that took advantage of our lack of a top line ruck and our reluctance to win contested ball. I'm not worried about those losses, just the same as I'm not going to be concerned about the wins against Brisbane, Collingwood, Melbourne or Richmond. What is really concerning is the downward trend between R8 (Carlton) through to R18 (Hawthorn). There was a response after every loss, but each time it was diminished.

That's the sign of a side that just didn't give a **** and only pulled together for a win after things got bad. In fact, there are a few interesting bits in here:

We win big against Essendon in R3 - a side that is full of young or top up players - and then get our ass handed to us in Sydney vs GWS in R4, then have a small improvement in performance the next game against Geelong but still lose - just not as big. Similarly, we win big against Brisbane in R19 - a side that is full of young players - and then get our ass handed to us in Sydney vs Sydney in R20...then a small improvement in performance against Melbourne but still lose - just not as big. Next year, I don't want to see us with a draw that gives us an easy game before we have to play either Sydney side.

Every time we got ahead of ourselves and started moving away from what got us the win in the first place, we were constantly brought back to earth by inferior talented teams that actually played like a team. If it wasn't Brisbane into Carlton and West Coast, it was Collingwood into Western Bulldogs and Fremantle.

Consistently inconsistent, but on a downward trend. That happens when you have 'easy' games at the start of the season, punctuated by massive losses against Adelaide, GWS and Geelong - the confidence spikes gained from wins aren't able to be sustained.

As Hinkley said, we can't go on the way that we are and think that's okay. We have the talent to be a very good side, but until we stop this yo-yo in performance those close losses against Carlton, Footscray, West Coast and Adelaide will continue to happen.

 

[PJ Power]

Plain / Boring / No clear outstanding traits.

Yet the best flavour

 

[Zakk Wylde]

Yet the best flavour

Choc Mint FTW

 

[charcolechaddy]

Yes agreed but get another one. Look at the best defences today. They all have multiple beasts.

Wood/Morris/Hamling/Roberts, Grundy/Aliir/Rampe, McGovern/Brown/Schofield/Mackenzie, Lonergan/Taylor/Henderson.

Also look at all of the recent premiers and their big backs - Lake/Frawley/Gibson, Richards/Grundy/LRT, Scarlett/Taylor/Lonergan.

Backs ar not our issue.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

Is there anything that precludes us playing Broadbent as a full-time midfielder? He was great there in the Primus era.

We tried a few times this year but he was just inconsistent at finding the ball, i.e. doesn't work hard enough in the midfield to warrant playing him there.

Next year I do want him away from the backlines though.

 

[wayb2912]

Just watched the final quarter of our 2014 prelim vs Hawthorn. Some things I noticed:

* Lobbe was pretty much the same player he was this year. Our midfield just looked like they were fitter and working harder. Lobbe was tapping it straight down to the opposition and was soft in almost all contests he was involved in
* Chad Wingard will win us a premiership if he gets more opportunities in big finals
* Andrew Moore was very impressive(apart from missing his shot on goal), if he played at that level this year he would of probably been one of our best midfielders this season
* Hartlett was a beast in the big final

We look so much fitter and our game plan just seemed to work better than it has the past two seasons. I think that with a big preseason and also a bit of luck with injuries next year, we could challenge for a top 8 spot.

 

[Visenfest]

Just watched the final quarter of our 2014 prelim vs Hawthorn. Some things I noticed:

* Lobbe was pretty much the same player he was this year. Our midfield just looked like they were fitter and working harder. Lobbe was tapping it straight down to the opposition and was soft in almost all contests he was involved in
* Chad Wingard will win us a premiership if he gets more opportunities in big finals
* Andrew Moore was very impressive(apart from missing his shot on goal), if he played at that level this year he would of probably been one of our best midfielders this season
* Hartlett was a beast in the big final

We look so much fitter and our game plan just seemed to work better than it has the past two seasons. I think that with a big preseason and also a bit of luck with injuries next year, we could challenge for a top 8 spot.

If Andrew Moore played at that level this year, he might've cracked the Richmond side more often. Not sure about ours though

 

[wayb2912]

If Andrew Moore played at that level this year, he might've cracked the Richmond side more often. Not sure about ours though

Hey Andrew Moore's confidence must have been shot after going from a starting player in a prelim to becoming a dominant SANFL player who only got opportunities at AFL level as a sub. It is also our responsibility to develop these players. Had we persisted with him and gave him the starting opportunities we gave Sam Gray and Ahchee he could of turned out a better player. He seemed to work perfectly in the midfield with Boak, Wines, Ebert

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