Man In The Arena

[A11dAtP0w3R]

100% couldn't agree more. To compare Brady to Jordan is ridiculous.

Basketball relies far more on individual brilliance also, you only need to look at their individual playoff performances to work out Brady's name doesn't belong in the same breath as Jordan, despite what the "sEvEn RiNgS tHo LoLz HaTeR" crowd will tell you. Tell me the time Jordan was carried to a championship, clue, he never was.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Jordan also never lost three ******* times as favourites in the finals.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Will probably get around to watching this at some point.

For those that have - is the Brady propaganda as strong as the Jordan propaganda in the The Last Dance?

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

100% couldn't agree more. To compare Brady to Jordan is ridiculous.

Basketball relies far more on individual brilliance also, you only need to look at their individual playoff performances to work out Brady's name doesn't belong in the same breath as Jordan, despite what the "sEvEn RiNgS tHo LoLz HaTeR" crowd will tell you. Tell me the time Jordan was carried to a championship, clue, he never was.

This basically.

No NFL player will ever be able to be compared to the greatness of NBA legends. It's just not close.

No NFL player can carry a team of scrubs deep into the playoffs

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Will probably get around to watching this at some point.

For those that have - is the Brady propaganda as strong as the Jordan propaganda in the The Last Dance?

what do you consider Jordan propaganda?

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

what do you consider Jordan propaganda?

Honestly can't remember the details from the doco but I can remember having that feeling at the time.

Like yes, we get he was clearly the biggest reason they were so good and won 6 rings, but there were just points were it got OTT. Almost like he was saving the day in a sense which wasn't necessarily the case, they were a legit squad with a great coach. He wasn't just dragging them to improbable championships.

Hard to remember but that's the best way I can put it in my vague memory of the series.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Honestly can't remember the details from the doco but I can remember having that feeling at the time.

Like yes, we get he was clearly the biggest reason they were so good and won 6 rings, but there were just points were it got OTT. Almost like he was saving the day in a sense which wasn't necessarily the case, they were a legit squad with a great coach. He wasn't just dragging them to improbable championships.

Hard to remember but that's the best way I can put it in my vague memory of the series.

I dont necessarily disagree, Pippen's season when Jordan retired with Jackson was still very good (55 wins IIRC, second round playoff exit tho) . Jordan at playoff time was why they won so many though. Unlike Brady.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

I dont necessarily disagree, Pippen's season when Jordan retired with Jackson was still very good (55 wins IIRC, second round playoff exit tho) . Jordan at playoff time was why they won so many though. Unlike Brady.

That's another thing... great QBs can still win when they underperform/get ouperformed by the other QB.

But star NBA players can't really win when they get outperformed. They need to be on to an extent to win.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Anyone know how to watch this? I didn't realise Kayo removed each episode days after it airs

I will PM you. Anyone else let me know if they want this

 

[Southerntakeover]

Jordan went nuts at players winning one MVP when he was active and on top. Imagine Drexler or one of those guys winning 5 to his two whilst they were both active and trying to maintain his legacy at the same level. And then along comes Malone another winning like four to one.

 

[Southerntakeover]

I will PM you. Anyone else let me know if they want this

Hit me up when the Philly special goes live

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Hit me up when the Philly special goes live

Added you

 

[Cockliff38]

I will PM you. Anyone else let me know if they want this

Thanks LA

 

[ausbacker]

what do you consider Jordan propaganda?

Somewhat but it's more nuanced in Brady gives a lot of praise to his teammates and those who helped contribute.

 

[offtherails9]

Also, because Jordan was legitimately a cultural icon. His popularity was organic- people actually liked him, and admired him. He was undisputed as the best player in the league when he played.

Brady's "GOAT" sh*t is entirely media driven. It's a construction his people created for him. Other than the most sickening NE / TB bandwagoners, most NFL fans don't really like him, and a lot don't really consider him the best- indeed at pretty much every point in his career there's been better quarterbacks active in the league.

Yeah. Jordan wouldn't be liked these days though. He would split opinions like LeBron does.

Agreed on the Brady stuff though. I am trying to remember the term GOAT coming into popular culture, it feels like it was around 2016 or so. And it almost because like an adjective rather than the actual meaning. It became such an NFL thing to get clicks. I hate Brady, I do have some respect for him for being able to do what he has done, stick around for so long, play at a fairly good level for so long all while being a 3rd rounder or whatever, sure it's great. But it's all pretty boring. You could nitpick him for hours but I can't be bothered.

Also, in the basketball analogy: Brady running off to join the stacked TB offence is a total Lebron move.

It's not like Jordan played with hacks so I have never enjoyed hating on LeBron for moving to Miami. I think the person deserving of hate for moving teams in the NBA is Kevin Durant if anyone.

This basically.

No NFL player will ever be able to be compared to the greatness of NBA legends. It's just not close.

No NFL player can carry a team of scrubs deep into the playoffs

Well every NFL player is better, because NFL is a way tougher sport physically and mentally. Plus all the players aren't divas who try to move teams if they don't like how many PPG they're scoring. But of course, an NFL player does find it harder to have influence over a game with 22 on the field at a time as opposed to 10 on the court at the time.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Yeah. Jordan wouldn't be liked these days though. He would split opinions like LeBron does.

Agreed on the Brady stuff though. I am trying to remember the term GOAT coming into popular culture, it feels like it was around 2016 or so. And it almost because like an adjective rather than the actual meaning. It became such an NFL thing to get clicks. I hate Brady, I do have some respect for him for being able to do what he has done, stick around for so long, play at a fairly good level for so long all while being a 3rd rounder or whatever, sure it's great. But it's all pretty boring. You could nitpick him for hours but I can't be bothered.



It's not like Jordan played with hacks so I have never enjoyed hating on LeBron for moving to Miami. I think the person deserving of hate for moving teams in the NBA is Kevin Durant if anyone.



Well every NFL player is better, because NFL is a way tougher sport physically and mentally. Plus all the players aren't divas who try to move teams if they don't like how many PPG they're scoring. But of course, an NFL player does find it harder to have influence over a game with 22 on the field at a time as opposed to 10 on the court at the time.

Jordan is the reason the NBA is what it is today. Ridiculous to say he would split opinions. Not another player more responsible for the popularity of a sport in my life time. Every athlete in US sport is measured against him, and with good reason.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Yeah. Jordan wouldn't be liked these days though. He would split opinions like LeBron does.

Possibly. I think that's circular though: the reason there can't be another Jordan in this day and age is that there was already one. The popularisation that he drove, and the infusion of sports and various fashion (particularly sneakers) has already occurred.

Agreed on the Brady stuff though. I am trying to remember the term GOAT coming into popular culture, it feels like it was around 2016 or so. And it almost because like an adjective rather than the actual meaning. It became such an NFL thing to get clicks. I hate Brady, I do have some respect for him for being able to do what he has done, stick around for so long, play at a fairly good level for so long all while being a 3rd rounder or whatever, sure it's great. But it's all pretty boring. You could nitpick him for hours but I can't be bothered.

Don't disagree.

It's not like Jordan played with hacks so I have never enjoyed hating on LeBron for moving to Miami. I think the person deserving of hate for moving teams in the NBA is Kevin Durant if anyone.

I think there's a different in menality in how it came about though. Jordan played with an all time great in Pippen- but he didnt seek him out. Pippen was drafted to the bulls, developed at the bulls, and arguably became the player that he did through partnership with Jordan.

Jordan did not seek out superstars to form super teams with. He didnt leave the Bulls when they continuously fell short early in his career. The biggest name not drafted was Rodman, right? But Rodman was a low capital high upside buy at that time. People weren't queuing for him.

The thing that I think endeared him to people in the last dance, despite some pretty obvious personality defects, is the competitive urge. People are comparing him to Clyde? He develops a personal grudge, drive to prove them wrong, and goes at him directly in the finals.

IMO that's very difficult to the mentality of the current superstars. There's far more marketing / business in it, and far less competition. The Clyde story these days would end in them conspiring to join the same team next year so they can both be champions. They win, they all get a lot of money, and the league is the poorer for the lack of genuine competition at the top.

Well every NFL player is better, because NFL is a way tougher sport physically and mentally. Plus all the players aren't divas who try to move teams if they don't like how many PPG they're scoring. But of course, an NFL player does find it harder to have influence over a game with 22 on the field at a time as opposed to 10 on the court at the time.

I think also, NFL players really don't get to go face to face in the same positions. Brady is never on the field at the same time as Peyton, you never get to see who wins 1v1. You don't get the romance of a Jordan facing Magic directly to take the torch from his hand.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Jordan is the reason the NBA is what it is today. Ridiculous to say he would split opinions. Not another player more responsible for the popularity of a sport in my life time. Every athlete in US sport is measured against him, and with good reason.

For the reasons I said above, I don't think it's possible to consider if Jordan came today because what exists now is so intrinsically formed by him.

Having said that, he's probably the reason so many disdain Lebron. The difficulty is that, very early in the piece, people realised that they were going to constantly compare this guy to Jordan and at some point claim he's better and people resented that.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

For the reasons I said above, I don't think it's possible to consider if Jordan came today because what exists now is so intrinsically formed by him.

Having said that, he's probably the reason so many disdain Lebron. The difficulty is that, very early in the piece, people realised that they were going to constantly compare this guy to Jordan and at some point claim he's better and people resented that.

LeBron is the second best imo and there is no shame in that, in fact LeBron is probably more talented, but Jordan oozed confidence and mystique. Its hard to explain to those who didnt live through it, coz ive never seen it before or since. He was an absolute killer. Never seen a bigger competitor. He was a different beast, had an aura that I have never seen in any sport. World wide, I cant think of a single person who wasn't in awe of him. He was basketball and so much more.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

As a Sonics fan him and the Bulls pissed me off so much but I loved watching him. If only Gary Payton had played on him sooner in the NBA Finals in 96, it might have been a 7 game series. Still think the Bulls find a way to win at home in 7. But we dominated them in game 4 and 5 after going down 0-3, 94 was our best chance with Jordan retired, first #1 seed ever to get beaten by an #8 seed in the Nuggets after being up 2-0 in a 5 game series no less, what a wasted season that was.

 

[offtherails9]

Jordan is the reason the NBA is what it is today. Ridiculous to say he would split opinions. Not another player more responsible for the popularity of a sport in my life time. Every athlete in US sport is measured against him, and with good reason.

Yeah well I guess it really is impossible to say as it wouldn't happen hey. But you'd get locker room reports of players hating him because he is pushing them too much on social media etc, it would be a disaster. If Jordan punched some random white PG these days at practice he'd almost get the sack. That's all I'm saying.

Possibly. I think that's circular though: the reason there can't be another Jordan in this day and age is that there was already one. The popularisation that he drove, and the infusion of sports and various fashion (particularly sneakers) has already occurred.



Don't disagree.



I think there's a different in menality in how it came about though. Jordan played with an all time great in Pippen- but he didnt seek him out. Pippen was drafted to the bulls, developed at the bulls, and arguably became the player that he did through partnership with Jordan.

Jordan did not seek out superstars to form super teams with. He didnt leave the Bulls when they continuously fell short early in his career. The biggest name not drafted was Rodman, right? But Rodman was a low capital high upside buy at that time. People weren't queuing for him.

The thing that I think endeared him to people in the last dance, despite some pretty obvious personality defects, is the competitive urge. People are comparing him to Clyde? He develops a personal grudge, drive to prove them wrong, and goes at him directly in the finals.

IMO that's very difficult to the mentality of the current superstars. There's far more marketing / business in it, and far less competition. The Clyde story these days would end in them conspiring to join the same team next year so they can both be champions. They win, they all get a lot of money, and the league is the poorer for the lack of genuine competition at the top.



I think also, NFL players really don't get to go face to face in the same positions. Brady is never on the field at the same time as Peyton, you never get to see who wins 1v1. You don't get the romance of a Jordan facing Magic directly to take the torch from his hand.

Good post mate, fair call on it being circular.

Fair on Jordan not seeking them out but that wasn't really LeBron's choice or anything. The owners of the Cavs were pretty lazy and thought that they could get away with having at least the second best player of all time stay for 15 years and it to all be fine and dandy while they sell out arenas having an above average team due to LeBron, but never one that was actually going to properly compete with the big dogs. He had to leave to ever truly compete.

That is a good call on the Clyde stuff though. Now they're all ******* mates and love each other and hang out, which is lame as s**t.

It's a problem across all sports, why is that the case I wonder? I understand why it's a problem in AFL because all the Vic boys would know each other growing up from rep squads etc but I dunno why it's the case across other leagues.

 

[Southerntakeover]

LOL at the excuse making in the short cut of the Philly Special episode.

His hand was an owie, I guess that's why he didnt shake hands. Didnt stop him throwing for 500 yards though. The season was just really tuff on Tom and his team, so brave of them- it's not like they lost their MVP quarterback a month from playoffs, but boy were they up against it.

Apparently they were super super close to winning because of the last hail mary. No mention that they still would have needed a two point conversion just to force overtime.

Brady is an all time poor sport.

 

[Constantgin]

This basically.

No NFL player will ever be able to be compared to the greatness of NBA legends. It's just not close.

No NFL player can carry a team of scrubs deep into the playoffs

Barry Sanders and the detroit lions beg to differ.

 

[Exe Gesis]

Barry Sanders and the detroit lions beg to differ.

I would say Sanders and Marino were the only two. Both the Lions and Dolphins teams were bereft of talent, so deficient at D and other weapons, that it was all on Sanders/Marino, and both dragged those teams into the playoffs often, but that's as far as a single star could take them, because it really is a team game to go far in the post-season. Even Rodgers with that excellent D this season is a good example how hard it is, and they had an excellent D.