Martin Hardie: I write the forms... I think Evans ran the program

[Ned_Flanders]

I suspect someone is:

1. Using us to pick holes in the 'story' and clean it up

2. Alerting interested parties (media etc) that something is cooking for what reason remains to be seen.

Wait ans see but there is no way Cozza is making this up (so to speak), their is an angle here. Could it be Barkley St End?

I have two issues with his theories

firstly its so complex and over such a long period of time. as we saw in NSW and the Hunter deals, the ALP can barely keep one dodgy deal quiet, let alone a complex web of them over two decades.

secondly, its the why. Dodgy land deals I get, they have been a part of politics since Moses was a boy. what is the win however in getting EFC players to use supplements? As he mentioned in the initial post, the cost of failure as we have seen is catastrophic. Businesses will take that risk, but only when the reward is comparable to the risk. So what was the reward? They never invested in the company, so where is the win?

 

[CozzaD]

Well we know that Fitzpatrick is still protecting Little and shutting down any dissenting clubs.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...ssendon-as-saga-drags-on-20140922-10kj0r.html

Now you're talking, Fitzpatrick we'll get to as well. There's data there.

 

[morgoth]

Key paragragh, hold onto it, as it comes back to Phosphagenics/Calzada/Ersa Ogru court case where David Grace acted for the Defendants.

I know a fair but about that case, fail to see how it can be linked to this, in fact I fail to see how Phosphagenics. Yes Ogru was corrupt and might be the sort of person who would enter into an unethical deal but hard to see how it can link in to the Essendon supps scandal.

I don't think there will be any surprised people re AFL relationships being used for personal gain. Whether it is corruption is a wait and see.

 

[morgoth]

Now you're talking, Fitzpatrick we'll get to as well. There's data there.

Fitzpatrick is heavily connected to the ALP, was asked to stand numerous times, once again from my Carlton source. How the AFL alllow's the ANZ stadium deal is pretty strange.

 

[CozzaD]

I have two issues with his theories

firstly its so complex and over such a long period of time. as we saw in NSW and the Hunter deals, the ALP can barely keep one dodgy deal quiet, let alone a complex web of them over two decades.

Funny you mention 20 years, you’re not far off things…..

I need to get back to my day job crew. Back soon.

Cozz

 

[CozzaD]

Fitzpatrick is heavily connected to the ALP, was asked to stand numerous times, once again from my Carlton source. How the AFL alllow's the ANZ stadium deal is pretty strange.

You're speaking my language.

 

[morgoth]

I have two issues with his theories

firstly its so complex and over such a long period of time. as we saw in NSW and the Hunter deals, the ALP can barely keep one dodgy deal quiet, let alone a complex web of them over two decades.

secondly, its the why. Dodgy land deals I get, they have been a part of politics since Moses was a boy. what is the win however in getting EFC players to use supplements? As he mentioned in the initial post, the cost of failure as we have seen is catastrophic. Businesses will take that risk, but only when the reward is comparable to the risk. So what was the reward? They never invested in the company, so where is the win?

Well if Dank was running a secret trial and it was successful then it would give any investors inside information that no one would know about allowing them to clean up. Still it would be an incredible story if a club's admin tried this on. The money you can make from getting in early on a successful biotech deal is astronomical.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Funny you mention 20 years, you’re not far off things…..Once we get to the end of the data revealing. There is a 20 year old secret/link that people have forgotten about.

A lot of people are dropping hints and comments on here that ‘tie in’ with a lot of what has come out the last day or so, which is good. People are open to it.

In terms of the ‘who also has these emails’ comments from earlier, let’s just say some ‘prominent people’ didn’t seem too interested in this data seeing the light of day.

I need to get back to my day job crew. Back soon.

Cozz

What data? So far you have only provided a bunch of newspaper articles, which we all knew about, and some convoluted theory that this is a giant web of afl and alp corruption. So far your data has less credibility behind it that what Joe McCarthy had at his hearings

 

[morgoth]

Funny you mention 20 years, you’re not far off things…..

I need to get back to my day job crew. Back soon.

Cozz

I suppose the ALP connections would help explain the very generous funding given to the Pies just before they were kicked out. But once again, how it relates to the ASADA investigation is tennuous to say the least.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Well if Dank was running a secret trial and it was successful then it would give any investors inside information that no one would know about allowing them to clean up. Still it would be an incredible story if a club's admin tried this on. The money you can make from getting in early on a successful biotech deal is astronomical.

But they didn't invest.

Where is the win for running a secret trial if they failed to invest in the company?

 

[Chameleon75]

I have two issues with his theories

firstly its so complex and over such a long period of time. as we saw in NSW and the Hunter deals, the ALP can barely keep one dodgy deal quiet, let alone a complex web of them over two decades.

secondly, its the why. Dodgy land deals I get, they have been a part of politics since Moses was a boy. what is the win however in getting EFC players to use supplements? As he mentioned in the initial post, the cost of failure as we have seen is catastrophic. Businesses will take that risk, but only when the reward is comparable to the risk. So what was the reward? They never invested in the company, so where is the win?

29 November

 

[Ned_Flanders]

29 November

lol

 

[BlueWorld]

Not so, ASADA has routinely been down to Geelong since 2007 to have a look:
Cats players were subjected to intense scrutiny from drug testers after they started their amazing winning streak in 2007, which ultimately led to their drought-breaking premiership.

"This team was suddenly winning everything and I guess ASADA thought, 'What's going on here?'," the source said.
"ASADA had drug testers there all the time, but there was certainly nothing sinister behind what we were doing.

"Do the simple things well was the philosophy and it was very, very simple what we were doing. There was no rocket science behind it."

While the AFL yesterday refused to reveal whether Geelong would come under investigation, Cook reaffirmed the club's doors would be open if the league chose to do so.

"The club is fully committed to assisting the AFL and ASADA in this investigation," he said.

"The club's doctors, and not any sport science staff, directly determine all treatments and the use of all supplements by players."

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...fitness-programs/story-e6frg6n6-1226572047516

What could ASADA do? Test for substances there are no tests for?

 

[QuietB]

If these conspiracy theories are true, and infraction notices are going to be issued, and all and sundry will have to act on Hird, and Hird will threaten to go nuclear on all and sundries arses, then the next logical step is someone does provide the missing act for an underbelly series. I wonder if Megan Gale will play herself

 

[morgoth]

But they didn't invest.

Where is the win for running a secret trial if they failed to invest in the company?

Because the trial failed? There is no way it could work as they were being injected with so much stuff there is no way you could draw any conclusions from it.

I agree its a very, very long bow to draw and if it occurred it would be serious jail time so I really can't see it being done.

 

[morgoth]

If these conspiracy theories are true, and infraction notices are going to be issued, and all and sundry will have to act on Hird, and Hird will threaten to go nuclear on all and sundries arses, then the next logical step is someone does provide the missing act for an underbelly series. I wonder if Megan Gale will play herself

Mate if it was true the only option the perpertrators would have is:

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I suppose the ALP connections would help explain the very generous funding given to the Pies just before they were kicked out. But once again, how it relates to the ASADA investigation is tennuous to say the least.

I wouldn't read too much into this

poli's love giving to footy clubs because voters love their footy club getting shit. If your club is in a marginal or your club has a mass of fans, you will always do well. Keating and Howard both pretended to give a shit about AFL (even though they really had no interest in it at all) for one simple reason - voters love it.

Secondly, only north has been dumb enough to completely align with one party to get a deal done. Most always say they "and we hope the other guys can come to the party too" statement when these announcements occur (like the VCA did this week on Junction Oval). JFYI RFC were in hard with the ALP during the Gillard term, with her attending a number of games and Gale going to Canberra a few times. When the writing was on the wall though, suddenly it was Abbot and Hockey who Gale was shaking hands with. Most clubs only care about getting the money, not who is giving it to them

 

[DesertRoo]

Well if Dank was running a secret trial and it was successful then it would give any investors inside information that no one would know about allowing them to clean up. Still it would be an incredible story if a club's admin tried this on. The money you can make from getting in early on a successful biotech deal is astronomical.

The problem with a lot of this stuff is its not about guilt or innocence its about you can prove. And at the moment I see sweet f all.

It's easy to make up a story and link articles together.

Hay I might start one now.

Russia's movement of warships is really headed the protect the great barrier against coal mining.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...ing-to-australia/story-fni0xqrb-1227120928528

The Russians see coal as a negative impact on their gas exports to Europe.
http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=13151

 

[sonnywalters]

I have two issues with his theories

firstly its so complex and over such a long period of time. as we saw in NSW and the Hunter deals, the ALP can barely keep one dodgy deal quiet, let alone a complex web of them over two decades.

secondly, its the why. Dodgy land deals I get, they have been a part of politics since Moses was a boy. what is the win however in getting EFC players to use supplements? As he mentioned in the initial post, the cost of failure as we have seen is catastrophic. Businesses will take that risk, but only when the reward is comparable to the risk. So what was the reward? They never invested in the company, so where is the win?

Isnt there a famous quote about the ALP on this?

Something about "When it comes to the labor party if the choice is between X and stuff-up choose stuff-up every time"

Can anyone help me out here?

 

[BlueWorld]

Doesn’t mean that it’s not true. PS, I'm not politically affiliated...but I do believe I calling out bullshit when needed. And again, plenty more to come.

No but you seem eager to hang as much s*** as possible on the ALP, most of which has little to nothing to do with the EFC drug saga.

 

[Keys]

Go on, keep at it. I’m not going anywhere…

I don't question that there's some shady, possibly corrupt, dealings going on at the pointy end of the AFL but so far you've only shown a nebulous, at best, link of those dealings to the current doping scandal. With that in mind I question your motives in posting here because are pushing a definite agenda.

Bigfooty is a fan forum where us footy fans can anonymously pontificate on footy shit with like minded people (differences in club loyalties notwithstanding). Some people due to their background can offer a more educated view on some topics (like Ancient Tiger on this issue) and others just offer their opinion for others to agree or disagree with. Whatever their opinion is though it is just the thoughts of an avid footy fan usually viewed through the prism of their club allegiance.

What irks me is you've come on here using this forum as a soapbox for a not so subtle agenda - look at most of the other regular posters here, they're posting elsewhere about their clubs potential draft picks, hopes for the coming season, analysis of the season just gone etc as well as this issue. You're here and here alone

 

[morgoth]

The problem with a lot of this stuff is its not about guilt or innocence its about you can prove. And at the moment I see sweet f all.

It's easy to make up a story and link articles together.

Hay I might start one now.

Russia's movement of warships is really headed the protect of the great barrier against coal mining.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...ing-to-australia/story-fni0xqrb-1227120928528

The Russians see coal as a negative impact on there gas exports to Europe.
http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=13151

Its also dangerous as some of the people being mentioned are well resourced and capable of engaging lawyers.

 

[FFC_RoyBoys]

Many of Muller-Wohlfarth's treatments are controversial, including using injections of a substance called Hylart, extracted from the combs of roosters, which is claimed to help lubricate knee injuries and take away the pain.

He has also injected honey or calves' blood into patients.

The doc may have used lots of different stuff, but on Rookie it was Actovegen, which is own nebulous nonsense. They did indeed go off reservation, but were using a treatment that had been publicly linked to other athletes and discussed, and WADA approved.

Geelong doctor Chris Bradshaw said he had used Muller-Wohlfarth during his time at Premier League club Fulham. Ronaldo, Maurice Greene, Darren Gough and Jose Maria Olazabal are among international sportsmen the Bayern Munich club doctor has helped.

There is off-reservation, and there is offfffff-reservation. In 2008 you have Geelong Dr Chris Bradshaw willing to use Wohlfarth but already seemingly dismissive of Dank's techniques.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/news/sea-eagles-sponsors-blood-boils/2008/07/01/1214678037643.html

Agree fully with that and on a more careful reading of the article, there is nothing that directly link Rooke to Hylart, but rather that Hylart and a whole heap of other stuff is also used by the clinic.

Nevertheless, it still raises my eyebrows when I hear that a clinic is using these type products and they seem very similar to our own Dr Ageless and other such places. Again, similarly there are registered doctors here directly involved in that "grey" industry.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Because the trial failed? There is no way it could work as they were being injected with so much stuff there is no way you could draw any conclusions from it.

I agree its a very, very long bow to draw and if it occurred it would be serious jail time so I really can't see it being done.

the risk factor is too big though. if busted, the club gets smashed. why would you risk that when you don't know if it works and you have no financial incentive to do so.

Also the fact all the documentation was solely with Dank goes against this. Any trial (even an inhouse one) reeks of reports and paperwork. If Evans and Hird were viewing the exercise as a trial, they would have had to have access to this info. The sourcing is also out of whack. For a trial you need reliable and consistent ingredients, so that you can ensure any results are not due to fluctations in the spec of the product. If the pharma co was co-sponsoring this, they would have had the hand on the tiller for procurement (even if via third parties). No chance in hell they would have allowed Dank to independently manage this via a dodgy importer and a dodgy chemist. Too much risk of spec variation.

 

[DesertRoo]

Its also dangerous as some of the people being mentioned are well resourced and capable of engaging lawyers.

Shit, am I going to have the KGB on my arse now.