Martin vs. Rich

[Madison]

Why do the same people that think Rich is not going to improve, think that Martin will be so much better in the years to come.

Not many players have the first year impact Martin has had, and improve so dramatically.

What is it about Martin, that makes you guys think he will be this 'once in a generation player'? Sure he has looked bloody good in his first season, but how much improvement do you really think he has?

I see Rich talked about like he has nowhere to go, and he is already at his peak. I would think for all the same reasons that Martin has had an impact (big body, played against men already etc.)

 

[Grockadoc]

I think that Dustin will improve, albeit slight, if not, then their will be a perception thay he is improving. In the case of rich, he was a young guy playing ina midfield of 27-30 year olds who have hit their peak, some past it at brisbane. Martin however, starts in a midfield completely overhauled and 24 or younger with the exceptions of Tuck, and cuz who will not be at the club in 2012 in a playing role. Tuck is still on the deciding list. Witht eh new guys who all have a large scope for improvement, the common belief is that witht he improvement of the whole side, Dustin himself will improve as well.

 

[Tiger_Stripes]

I doubt he'll improve much physically, other than gaining an extra 'hardness' with age. He's already a good size from reports. What is more impressive is the way he takes players on so aggressively, where I see improvement is in experience leading to better decision making, he;s a good player but he still sold Cotchin into a whole world of trouble with that handball on the weekend.

Once he improves those aspects of his game, he'll be a complete gun. Plus, he's from Richmond and he's a hardass so if you add those factors in = legend status

 

[bigstyletiger]

I have never been in the 'Rich will not improve' camp but Martin obviously has a lot of improvement left. 14 touches in the first quarter on sunday and only 6 for the rest of the game. Obviously the Eagles would have paid him more attention but this is a common trend with Dusty which has to be fitness related.

Martin came to the AFL after only one season and a couple of games in the TAC cup wheras Rich was in the system for a lot longer and even had two years with at least one of them being a full year at senior WAFL level.

Dusty, although he has size already, will get stronger and will no doubt increase his tank over the next few years. If he can get elite fitness he will be unstoppable.

Fitness will also help him play both ways. At the moment he is primarily an offensive player.

 

[Spluff]

He's a completely different player to Rich. Rich's best weapon is his incredible kicking, but is pretty average in most other areas, whereas Martin has strong attributes right across the board in his pace, clearance work, strength, and also his kicking. Martin is more comparable to a Selwood than a Rich, and certainly Selwood has improved.

Rich also played two seasons of WAFL and basically stopped improving by his second year in the WAFL, whereas Martin is a product of the U18s system and most of his improvement was last year, in particular the last few months of the year when he rocketed up into contention for a high pick.

Not to mention that all Martin needs to do is develop a tank that takes him through four quarters and he'd be an elite player already, and if he gets any extra strength and improves his game sense (as one would expect that any 18 year old in their first AFL season would do), that will make him a once in a generation player.

 

[Calcium Man]

Martin came to the AFL after only one season and a couple of games in the TAC cup wheras Rich was in the system for a lot longer and even had two years with at least one of them being a full year at senior WAFL level.

Dusty, although he has size already, will get stronger and will no doubt increase his tank over the next few years. If he can get elite fitness he will be unstoppable.

Fitness will also help him play both ways. At the moment he is primarily an offensive player.

Pretty much this.

He will get stronger, has a maori background and in a football environment he will be scary strong in a few years. Plus he isn't anywhere near as fit as he can be. Lived in Sydney and didnt play much footy for two years puts him behind in his development too.

He and cotch are gonna be an incredible duo in a few years.

 

[Rancid_Beasties]

Martin has all of Rich's ability, with much more pace.

A little bit more conditioning...leading to a bigger tank, will make him absolutely unstoppable.

Currently he is pulling 10-15 disposal quarters, but then struggling for the rest of the game, finishing with 20. In years to come he will gain more consistency on a quarter by quarter basis and hopefully get 30-40 disposals week in, week out.

 

[folester41]

martins improvement will come in the form of the number of touches he gets, the way he uses it in different situations and his ability to cover himself defensively.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

In my opinion Rich and Martin both haven't shown huge football smarts to win a one on one marking contest or get to space and win one on one contests like Selwood regularly does , which inturn makes them a tad easier to be tagged out of the game . Bit early to make a call of them I think both have lots of upside and both have the potential to be superstars !!

 

[LBBenny]

I think fitness will be very important to Dusty, he has dominated a lot of 1st quaters and then slowed throughout the rest of the game.

A couple of pre-seasons and he will be awesome, its pretty hard to stop someone who gets his own ball so well. With fitness he will be able to do it all day. When he played on Hayes he was moving him off the ball all day, and Hayes is pretty hard at it.

Rich is big bodied but he almost plays an outside mid game doesn't really get his own ball.

Great pickup

 

[Tribal]

Martin is pwnage. Close thread plz.

 

[Mario Speedwagon]

Martin...it's like having one of the All-Blacks, but with elite AFL skills in the side...

 

[coke_zero]

when we get Foley and Wbberley and who ever we draft this year into the midfield then we can chuck him forward for 10-15 minute patches.

 

[Chops18]

Why do the same people that think Rich is not going to improve, think that Martin will be so much better in the years to come.

Not many players have the first year impact Martin has had, and improve so dramatically.

What is it about Martin, that makes you guys think he will be this 'once in a generation player'? Sure he has looked bloody good in his first season, but how much improvement do you really think he has?

I see Rich talked about like he has nowhere to go, and he is already at his peak. I would think for all the same reasons that Martin has had an impact (big body, played against men already etc.)

Because he plays simple footy and plays footy the way it should be played not this pussy little chip shit we see all the time, he gets shrugs off a player puts his foot through and gains 50 + meters giving the forwards a better run at it.

 

[THE_GUN]

Martin is a machine,truck,monster,gun...................and a bit more !

there are so many places this kid will still improve
fitness
stamina
strength
awareness(game)
tackling

this kid has played 10 games, by the time he gets to 50 he will be considered 1 of the best going around.

he has done nothing less than selwood but in an inferior team thats harder to do without the likes of ablett,bartel,enright,chapman,johnson etc etc

we have a good young group coming through but need more depth to compliment these kids in a couple of years.......... pleople will start saying who do we tag delidio,martin,foley,cotchin,collins, connors,edwards and maybe even tambling.

just need another 3 quality mids 1 ruck 1 big bodied defender.

 

[Quigley]

He's a completely different player to Rich. Rich's best weapon is his incredible kicking, but is pretty average in most other areas, whereas Martin has strong attributes right across the board in his pace, clearance work, strength, and also his kicking. Martin is more comparable to a Selwood than a Rich, and certainly Selwood has improved.

Rich also played two seasons of WAFL and basically stopped improving by his second year in the WAFL, whereas Martin is a product of the U18s system and most of his improvement was last year, in particular the last few months of the year when he rocketed up into contention for a high pick.

Not to mention that all Martin needs to do is develop a tank that takes him through four quarters and he'd be an elite player already, and if he gets any extra strength and improves his game sense (as one would expect that any 18 year old in their first AFL season would do), that will make him a once in a generation player.

Not meaning to be rude but there is a lot of bollox being said and in this post in particular.

Firstly on speed which a few people have mentioned - there is a perception out there that Rich is slow but this is not the case. From memory he ran a 2.91 when he was U18. Martin ran a 2.89 at camp which was surprising good. Both I think have good bursts but do not play to their sprint times. Martin may be quicker but it is marginal.

Kicking wise Rich has better penetration but both are very good kicks. Rich has the edge for me as far as vision and hurt factor when he has time but I would give the edge to Martin when there is pressure is on. Both though are elite kicks I think. Both are miles ahead of Selwood who is a poor user of the ball, goes backwards too much and sells his teammates into trouble.

Endurance is where both need to improve to take their games to the next level. Rich is a bit lazy on the training park and needs to get better habits in order get the most out of his talent. For how poorly he performs in the distance running he runs games out exceptionally well. He had trimmed up a bit as the season has progressed this year and is starting to work through the hard tag better than he has done. Rich has worn a hard tag all year. Martin is sporadic having some huge quarters and then disappearing for extended periods. I think this is a combination of a lack of endurance and teams going to a harder tag on him when he gets going and him not being able to work through it.

Martin's inside game is certainly much better than Rich's at the moment. This though has been a focus for Rich this year and is an area where he is improving a lot. There was a focus on getting his quick handballs up in the offseason and he was handballing a bit too much earlier. Rich though is certainly winning his fair share of the ball and when he gets it he hurts teams badly. Martin is an inside guy first and foremost and his reads the ball exceptionally well off hands and uses his body to hold position better than you have any right to expect of an 18year old. He will be an exceptional clearance player but needs to get more ball to be more than that.

Outside both need to improve and find space better although Rich may have a slight edge. I think both will improve in this area as they improve their running ability and learn to lose tags.

Marking wise Rich is very strong and has taken a few really nice grabs the last few weeks against taller players. Not noted for his marking he is starting to get confidence to go for the marks and is doing very well. Once he gets his hands on teh ball it tends to stick. I haven't really paid much attention to Martin in this regard.

Rich playing in the WAFL hurt his draft stock more than anything. In his second year U18 he was marking time waiting for the AFL and he did not apply himself as perhaps he should have. If he had been playing U18s he could have cruised through the year, enjoying life and still dominating. Against the seniors though that didn't work.

Both are very strong and have great core strength. Martin is probably the bigger of the two and plays the more physical game but Rich is probably the better tackler. With Martin I would worry a little that throwing himself around in packs at this age might encourage injuries but I guess that could happen no matter what.

Personally both have the tools to be exceptional footballers and it comes down to a little luck with injuries and a willingness to work to get better. The latter is perceived as the weakness of Rich. Personally I would not trade Rich for Martin but I can perfectly understand the Richmond fans saying the opposite.

 

[Gibbo_88]

Rich is big bodied but he almost plays an outside mid game doesn't really get his own ball.

Great pickup

Some people on here have no idea about Rich's strengths/weaknesses as a player.

Should check some stats before you throw that out there. Against the game against Collingwood he had 7 clearances, over the last 4 games he has had 22 clearances and he has the most contested possessions for the lions this year...He is an inside player that can play outside as well.