Mega Thread Matt Rendell situation thread #2

[ruscy002]

No I agree. However, there would be a stench hanging over us with the many unanswered questions - no different to it is now. Don't you think?

The difference would be that we would still have a good man and a great employee on our books. That doesn't mean that his employment wouldn't have been terminated after an investigation if that's what the situation demanded, but throwing him to the wolves and running like hell hasn't exactly left us any options in that regard!

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Interesting that Mifsud has a performance based contract and that he gets paid for the more aboriginals and multinational players that are drafted, is there anyone else disturbed by that? Isn't that basically an admission that they have to be handled differently? Isn't that racism? Imagine if a similar role was set up in the afl where one of their managers got paid bonuses for the more white players drafted!

What's alarming is that if Misfud's results are poor then he'd be on the lookout for someone to blame.

What better than a recuiting manager who uttered a stupid comment in a informal meeting once?

Misfud can use that to show that the bad results are not a reflection of his work but that it is the recruiters who are to blame.

 

[jenny61_99]

This could have been handled a lot fairer to all parties if the AFL dealt with it quickly behind closed doors - they kept it secret for 6 weeks then press releases????? I think this is what I am angry about.

Yes, though I think what is emerging now is that they (the AFL) didn't know about it for 6 weeks. Jason Mifsud apparently took some weeks to think about the conversation (deep soul searching he called it) and then decided to do something about it. I'm betting Fahoud got in his ear and said something along the lines of: "you don't see the way he speaks about this is a problem? I can't believe you didn't clock him!" At which point Jason, who probably never saw anything wrong with it before, now looked back and came to the conclusion that Fahoud was right. I agree it could have been handled far better than it has been - with the very FIRST thing that Mifsud did is contact Rendell and have a conversation about it all BEFORE he said things to Vlad or the media.

It could have been cleared up well before it got to that stage.

 

[Mattrox]

And that was often Matty's problem. He spoke before he thought about the implications of what he said.

Which makes AD'S calculated and inflamatory. This is completely un-Australian and is getting the appropriate response from the public.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

First of all you will find that indigenous players have higher retention rate than non-indigenous players.

Secondly, players that come from remote indigenous towns are the ones that they are referring to with lot retention rates. When it comes to the completely isolated remote communities we haven't had that many players at all. You do understand that players like Amos Frank and Liam Jurrah are the exception. It wasn't long ago these people were even considered by recruiters.

The AFL has tried it's best to put resources in trying to reach these isolated communities where only a small percentage speak english on a accepted minimum standard for required literacy levels. It's literally a second language for them.

The Cyril Rioli scenario worked for Rioli but that does not mean it will work for all. Even Rioli himself said that if his mother hadn't of pushed him he would not be on an AFL list right now. Suggesting this is the only course of avenue is completely ignorant of my previous points.

It is disgusting that Rendell loses his job by trying to arrange free scholarships... They should be bloody greatful and if they dont want the scholarships that is cool, dont bloody take them...

A lot indigenous people from remote communities feel like they have left another country to play AFL. It is normal for them to want to go back. Take them out of this environment too early can be harmful, especially if the club is not catering to make the transition as gradual and comfortable as possible.

You don't necessarily need more resources to aclimitise these players, but just smarter resources. And that's not exclusive to remote indigenous communities, but everyone

Hawthorn recently had issues with Travis Tuck, son of games record holder and the most winning premiership player Michael Tuck. His brother Shane had also similar issues. Now given his pedigree you would think he had every opportunity to have a long AFL career. Not so.

So as you can see to suggest that you would recruit or even insinuate to recruit based on race is completely ridiculous.

The AFL need to set up more academies that cater for indigenous communities and make their transition easier into AFL. I also don't believe their should be a set age limit. Different people will differently and faster and will be ready sooner or later.

One example is Jaeger O'meara. I don't know what his cultural background is but that's not the point. AFL rules as they stand because of his age he does not get to play AFL. From what I have seen of him his far more than ready. And we geninuley losing an exciting player to watch this season as well as hampering hsi development. O'meara would benefit more playing a season of AFL than anything else right now.

Ill give you an example of some like Leo Messi of Barcelona. He played his first game at Barcelona (that's their fist team) in the Primera Liga at age 16. This week at age 24 he has broken their goals record, and looks to be now going to win World Player of the Year for the third time in a row. The fact he learned his trade at superhouse club at the highest pressure only means now at age 24 he plays like a veteran hitting is prime.

On the other hand I don't think we should go trigger happy on getting young players in. In fact the way the draft is set up it force clubs to pick up young players they may not need and then let them sit on he sidelines when they would be best served picking up mature age recruits instead. The rookie and national draft should just be included in one.

So in conclusions what I am saying is that in regards to indigenous remote communities there is necessarily one size fits all. That can only be a framework but then natural divergence from each individual happens and the academies, recruiters and club need to be smarter in educate individuals. Which means they need to be educate themselves in this regards because as it is now everybody is learning on their own accord. Maybe they need to provide seminars, retreats or and regular open discussion forums the like for the major stakeholders in the game.

As I suspected, you have no ideas at all... But you are very politcally correct, well done....

Let me scare you... Offering Scholarships in not racist and infact I was offered one myself once upon a time... Infact many kids I know received scholarships to Rostrevor.. And you know what, I didn't accept it... I had a choice, just like everyone does.

 

[Big Gazoongas]

You need to read each post.

By the way, what are your solutions?

Why don't you refresh our memories, it should be a simple cut and paste.

Im not the one taking the moral high ground so I'll ask again, quote "I'm fascinated to hear your opinion on how we can help our indigenous freinds and at the same time how we appease moral crusaders like yourself without fear of someone pulling the "Racism" or "highly offensive" card out"

 

[Mego Red]

Yeah, or Mifsud was offended, but he didn't want to say anything because he didn't want to rock the boat and have people think he's a dick.

Whether you think it is serious or not, Mifsud is the one who is the original victim here. If he is offended, he has every right to complain, especially considering it sounds like Rendell let loose with a whole range of inappropriate/ignorant comments.

They may have been minor and they were probably at the low end of "racist", but all this stuff about punctuality (it was called "black fellah time" when I was a boy), comparing Africans and indigenous (ah, they're all the same), about young black footballers leaving their family and training at an academy for two years to prove they can fit the AFL system ...

Rendell has had a history of shooting from the hip, and I guess there was always going to be a time when it would bite him. If he had been a bit more considered about what he was saying, we wouldn't be discussing this.

And if he had said "why don;t we offer indigeonous Australians more scholarships" we'd be in a different place - but that wasn;t the focus. It wasn't "let's give more opportunity", it was "let's put them in a white environment so we can find out whether they'll fit in before we have to draft them."

 

[jenny61_99]

Which makes AD'S calculated and inflamatory. This is completely un-Australian and is getting the appropriate response from the public.

Agreed. But I think we probably all acknowledge now that Rendell was partly at fault with all this?

 

[ruscy002]

Whether you think it is serious or not, Mifsud is the one who is the original victim here. If he is offended, he has every right to complain, especially considering it sounds like Rendell let loose with a whole range of inappropriate/ignorant comments.

Good point, but the issue is that in his position, Mifsud has to deal with the issue/complaint in a professional and timely manner. Allowing the issue to stew and fester for two months has caused way more collateral damage than is necessary for such disputes.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Agreed. But I think we probably all acknowledge now that Rendell was partly at fault with all this?

Only by telling someone how to suck eggs. Not by being racist....

Maybe by being strong minded to someone who is insecure with themselves, sure

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I didn't make the Stolen Generation link at all, until it was mentioned here; and I still don't agree with it - but I can see how it'd be a bit sensitive in that respect.

There is no link.

It's like saying that me getting an enticing job offer overseas and taking it is the same as me getting deported and sold into slavery overseas.

Both philosophies are the same - I'm getting an opportunity that isn't available to me at home and will be working overseas.

But they're just a teensy bit different.

 

[Roby]

Why don't you refresh our memories, it should be a simple cut and paste.

Im not the one taking the moral high ground so I'll ask again, quote "I'm fascinated to hear your opinion on how we can help our indigenous freinds and at the same time how we appease moral crusaders like yourself without fear of someone pulling the "Racism" or "highly offensive" card out"

I have given rudimentary suggestions at best and this issue needs more than a few words in a forum post to suffice. This requires more research, study and trial and error for it to improve dramatically. I have linked a website already you may want to read as a starting point.

As I suspected, you have no ideas at all... But you are very politcally correct, well done....

Let me scare you... Offering Scholarships in not racist and infact I was offered one myself once upon a time... Infact many kids I know received scholarships to Rostrevor.. And you know what, I didn't accept it... I had a choice, just like everyone does.

Why don't you exmplify where my 'ideas' are incorrect or non existent rather than making blanket statements like this one, 'This whole thing is giving me the shits. It is all to bloody prescious.. Some times we all need to move on... How many of us filthy white people still hold grudges towards the Japanese or the Germans? Less than 1% I'd say!'.

That shows a severe lack of understanding of Australian history. Maybe it wasn't taught to you and you have not had the time to care, but let me ask you this, how many countries are there in Australia?

 

[Roby]

Roby, do you find any of the comments in the recent article about Frank Amos to be offensive, perhaps cringeworthy, or at least walking a fine line.

Its a great story, and I think it helps illustrate some of what Rendell was trying to say. However it seems discussing Indigenous life is very sensitive, and I reckon theres plenty of potential fodder in what is a positive article, if you want to look for it.

Not trying to be a smart arse, or bring hawthorn into it, I dont doubt their intentions. I just think we are heading down a path where we cant talk about it at all. For example the article is littered with "they" and "them", in refrence to Amos' people, something that Rendell has been criticised for. Theres plenty of other examples too.

I've read a couple of articles and at first reading I didn't see anything inherently racist. At second reading I might see what you might be alluding too but I am still unclear, can you give the examples in which you are alluding to?

 

[Mattrox]

AFL's latest tweet.... Today is Harmony Day! We recognise the important role sport has in our multicultural nation http://www.harmony.gov.au/ #PlayEngageInspire


What about quashing the dis-harmony by publishing a proper statement. Exactly what was said etc.....

 

[SydCrow]

This "education" may have happened if Vlad/Trigg didn't blow his head off - Mifsud did allegedly beg Trigg not to fire him right?

if Mifsud was such a great mate, you would have thought he would have educated him over the years - very disappointing

can't help feeling that Ali F is the catalyst here. Is he trying to justify his (arguably tainted) existence by claiming a scalp?

 

[ruscy002]

I have given rudimentary suggestions at best and this issue needs more than a few words in a forum post to suffice. This requires more research, study and trial and error for it to improve dramatically. I have linked a website already you may want to read as a starting point.

So "trial and error" is necessary, provided nobody makes a mistake?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

One thing I'm not following is that according to Demetriou, Rendell had the opportunity to take back the comments on Friday but refused to.

But this was denied by Rendell. In fact he said that the Crows said he couldn't explain what he said or front a media conference, but had to decide whether he wanted to resign or be sacked.

 

[ruscy002]

One thing I'm not following is that according to Demetriou, Rendell had the opportunity to take back the comments on Friday but refused to.

But this was denied by Rendell. In fact he said that the Crows said he couldn't explain what he said or front a media conference, but had to decide whether he wanted to resign or be sacked.

And nobody, from Misfud to Demetriou to Trigg believes that he's a racist...right?

I honestly can't work out if the misinformation is a deliberate ploy or if these people really are that stupid.

 

[Truck Rutten]

This whole thing just gets grubbier everyday.

How could Matt not recognise it, if there was so much offense taken at the time? He clearly appeared taken aback during the FC interview when it was suggested that Mifsud was offended.

Why was Mifsud incapable of conveying his alleged indignation to Matt (a mate, who from all accounts he's comfortable around) and subsequently to his superiors? Sounds like this guy has extremely substandard communication skills. Probably on a handy amount of coin too

 

[Big Gazoongas]

I have given rudimentary suggestions at best and this issue needs more than a few words in a forum post to suffice. This requires more research, study and trial and error for it to improve dramatically. I have linked a website already you may want to read as a starting point.



Why don't you exmplify where my 'ideas' are incorrect or non existent rather than making blanket statements like this one, 'This whole thing is giving me the shits. It is all to bloody prescious.. Some times we all need to move on... How many of us filthy white people still hold grudges towards the Japanese or the Germans? Less than 1% I'd say!'.

That shows a severe lack of understanding of Australian history. Maybe it wasn't taught to you and you have not had the time to care, but let me ask you this, how many countries are there in Australia?

Agree that you have only given high level suggestions, which is very different to how they can work effectivley, how they can be agreed to, communicated and implemented without someone taking offence.

You have also highlighted the issues facing our indigenous friends, that is also a far cry from what I have asked you to provide.

I guess what I am trying to get you to answer is how do we solve these issues without being afraid of people pulling the "Racism" or "highly offensive" card out"....Im yet to hear your response to this!
No matter what is said, no matter the context no matter the forum you can guarantee the "racism" card rears its ugly head.

The only thing you can guarantee out of this whole saga is that employees of football clubs will say very little, if anything at all, in the future on how we can assist our indigenous freinds because of the fear of being given the same punishment handed out to MR and branded a racist.......I suppose that is a good thing??

 

[Northalives]

Don't you think it's a generational thing though? My father, who joined the Navy in 1945 as a 15 year old, helped with the clean up at Hiroshima and faught in the Korean war, still had opinions about the Japanese and Germans until his dying days. I however, don't.

The stolen children "generation" actually affected TWO generations directly, the parents from whom the children were taken, and the children themselves. As we know, a child in an Aboriginal community is raised by the whole community so many more were affected beyond the obvious. And don't forget, the "apology" only happened very recently, so it is still a very recent event in their cultural history.

Yes jenny, it's very recent and that goes to the heart of this matter.

Rendell and others still advocate things that are completely at odds with Aboriginal culture.

They either have no understanding whatsoever of basic Aboriginal culture or they do, but think it's "not good for them" to hold onto these cultural ways.

 

[afc1991]

I've read a couple of articles and at first reading I didn't see anything inherently racist. At second reading I might see what you might be alluding too but I am still unclear, can you give the examples in which you are alluding to?

Just highlighted quotes in order as it reads... quotes from Jason Burt, and the way Mark Stevens has worded some of the article, grounds to be taken as offensive, insensitve, ignorant if you want to. I dont by the way, and clearly its not anyones intention.

-"It puts him in a realm where he's obligated to be a strong element in his community. We considered funerals ... when he comes back, and so on." (Jason Burt, Hawthorn welfare and development manager.)


-As part of the initiation, making him a leader in the community, Frank's left front tooth was knocked out. "The process is something they don't talk about too much," Burt said

-After seeing Frank's highlights reel and taking into account the maturity of the Hawks' playing group to deal with the scenario, they embraced the idea.

-"They do get food in there (APY Lands) to their store, but it's very expensive. There's some good stuff mixed in with a hell of a lot of rubbish," Burt said.

-"They would hunt for lizard, kangaroo, emu. Whatever they could really muster up. Lizard is a big part of their diet ... Amos said he eats a lot of damper when he's up there, so it's not a great diet. Here, he loves his salad."


"He knows nouns. He'll pick up on things like 'Want a coffee'. But to actually string a couple of sentences together, he will struggle with that," Burt said.

"He doesn't necessarily sit in meetings, because to be honest it's a waste of time."

-Some of the Hawks have gone as far as learning phrases from Frank's first language, Pitjantjatjara.

"When I first met him I thought 'Bloody hell, you're closer to 30 than you are to 20'."


Heres the story btw

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/afl/afl-our-story-of-the-year/story-e6frexwr-1226302012364

 

[Northalives]

Agree that you have only given high level suggestions, which is very different to how they can work effectivley, how they can be agreed to, communicated and implemented without someone taking offence.

You have also highlighted the issues facing our indigenous friends, that is also a far cry from what I have asked you to provide.

I guess what I am trying to get you to answer is how do we solve these issues without being afraid of people pulling the "Racism" or "highly offensive" card out"....Im yet to hear your response to this!
No matter what is said, no matter the context no matter the forum you can guarantee the "racism" card rears its ugly head.

The only thing you can guarantee out of this whole saga is that employees of football clubs will say very little, if anything at all, in the future on how we can assist our indigenous freinds because of the fear of being given the same punishment handed out to MR and branded a racist.......I suppose that is a good thing??

Hey Gazoonga, you seem to be approaching this issue of getting Aboriginal kids into the AFL system and keeping them there from a purely white/western perspective.

That's the problem, that is, you cannot turn Aboriginals into whites and to try to do so, is racist!

That's what Rendell is advocating and that's why he's been pilloried.

 

[Mattrox]

No one ever said they think

it's "not good for them" to hold onto these cultural ways.

What was asked is how can the AFL retain young players with complex issues.

 

[sliver member]

the biggest issue for me is The comment was made in January but Jason Mifsud took until Mid-March to tell the afl.

he is the whole interview on footy classfied.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTh-3-4iIMU