The Law MeToo Movement

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TheBrownDog
Sep 2, 2008
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Jorunolists coaching these women what to say with false alligtaions to destroys an innocent man's life

Bloody disgusting I hope Craig sues the ABC and those women interviewd for all thier worth.

I'm all for Craig to stand up against MeToo movement
 
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Sweet Jesus

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Aristotle Pickett

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Malifice

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How do #metoo evangelists respond to these claims about Australia's female soccer players?

I hope they treat these accusations as seriously as they would if they were levelled against a man.

I dont understand what you're on about here.

Or rather I understand that you don't understand.
 

CM86

Anindilyakwa
Sep 21, 2009
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there circle will only be completed when men make allegations of women making a pass at them

we have almost each quadrant completed
What?
That happens, and it's really hard for men to deal with it, because it's still looked at as humorous to some.
 

blackcat

antony green psephologist esqu
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also their (male)coach was shunted about 40 months back for aggressive demeanour as coach to athletes , remember ex Demons player Dom Tyson either Bright-highcountry/orDandenongs Marshall the troops with Melbourne players protesting the boot-camp , hazard to say this schism separates on a values&mores lens the preceding generations , also nb. see: first starts out in America and US women's soccer team

www is a cascade where other terrestrial geographies will lie in influence
 

blackcat

antony green psephologist esqu
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What?
That happens, and it's really hard for men to deal with it, because it's still looked at as humorous to some.
Ofcourse it happens , most men take it in their stride and will not find offence when none intended

but this zeitgeist sees offence and victimisation as badges of honour to be exploited. Bad behaviour is bad behaviour , does it merit being plastered across Fairfax and weaponised with megaphone ?

ReneGirard scapegoat theory
 

CM86

Anindilyakwa
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Ofcourse it happens , most men take it in their stride and will not find offence when none intended
Finding or taking offence is only one aspect in certain circumstances. The same as intending offence isn't necessarily required.
I'd expect that the vast majority of the time that someone makes a pass at someone else, that they don't intend offence.

Why is a man expected to take it in their stride? Are women expected to? Are children?


but this zeitgeist
There might be some things that come and go, like extreme ends. But I think it's more an ongoing evolution of our existence. As our societies become 'more equal', we're better able to understand each other. Is that an era you'd want to end?

sees offence and victimisation as badges of honour to be exploited.
No society is perfect, it can always improve.
But almost every part of our systems can be exploited, or drive people to engorge their ego.

Bad behaviour is bad behaviour
Then what's bad behaviour?

does it merit being plastered across Fairfax and weaponised with megaphone ?
I'd hope that the majority of time it's more somewhere near the middle of 'take it in their stride' and 'Fairfax weaponised megaphone'.


I'd also argue that there can be occasions where the weaponised megaphone should be used.
We shape our society-shape us-shape our society. Is it imitation when there is a buffer?

Someone starts a new job, observes everyone else wipe their shoes in the same specific spot everyday, before they start work.
That new person will probably mimic that behaviour. Even if that person thinks/believes it's wrong, or just doesn't understand it.
Let's say that that spot is in the kitchen, or just wherever they prepare and eat food.
If the place they wipe their shoes is in the area they all prepare food, wouldn't it be better if small incremental changes were made, and observed, moving the set spot away from the 'kitchen'?
Those small incremental changes, are the instances of the weaponised megaphone in our society.

The less moments of 'taking it in our stride', the less moments of the weaponised megaphone.


ReneGirard scapegoat theory
But that's been throughout our history. The aim is to reduce how far it goes each time.
New groups start to be the ones singled out, but it doesn't swing as far as it did for the previous group. Or goat.
The more equal we all become, the more understanding/aware we all become, the harder it is to form a scapegoat.
As long as the quality of life overall is improving, shouldn't it be worked towards?
 

blackcat

antony green psephologist esqu
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.
As long as the quality of life overall is improving, shouldn't it be worked towards?
It is not , life seems to have evolved to pit people against people , man/woman old/young whitemen/everyoneelse , political left/right which has become nasty beyond traditional politics , everything is nazi or right-wing , I do not understand the language , everything is flipped or actually verging on fascism , actual Mussolini fascism , I think the pedagogy of my decade has failed the current graduating class .
not that folks on here would be aware , but I attempt to treat all with generosity and heart , because ALOT of our society require it ... #1 Adam Goodes deserving AOTY* but Mac-Tip and mark Bolton of Bombers would have been equally deserving.

See amount of homeless Melbournians in AclandSt CarlisleStBalaclava ElizabethSt WindsorChapelSt , it has been precipitous since the last half dozen years well before covid

Melbourne was not like that , tolerant , cosmopolitan(re:melting pot) , well calibrated tension of aspiration v struggle(resiliance) and opportunity

*AG was used by the body in Canberra for the authority's own ends , one of top10 players ever in my reckoning
 
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CM86

Anindilyakwa
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It is not , life seems to have evolved to pit people against people , man/woman old/young whitemen/everyoneelse
not that folks on here would be aware , but I attempt to treat all with generosity and heart , because ALOT of our society require it ... #1 Adam Goodes deserving AOTY* but Mac-Tip and mark Bolton of Bombers would have been equally deserving.

See amount of homeless Melbournians in AclandSt CarlisleStBalaclava ElizabethSt WindsorChapelSt , it has been precipitous since the last half dozen years well before covid

*AG was used by the body in Canberra for the authority's own ends , one of top10 players ever in my reckoning
Ok.

It is, because it is your position.
And you can't support that, because we're too inexperienced and/or uninstructed.
 

blackcat

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Ok.

It is, because it is your position.
And you can't support that, because we're too inexperienced and/or uninstructed.
No actually , I don't support how we have happened to have homeless concern , I sit down and talk to folks and bring food*
I don't think you represent the problem , Kennett closed Kew cottages and sold schools to Bailieu developments right? I am square in the centre , but I dont see those who mouth woke homilies shoulder2shoulder with Mark Bolton

I see those who mouth the homilies utterly ignorant that the ubereats immigrant delivery person is on indentured servant wages and shares his bedroom 2 to a single bed. I am against that person's conditions in Australiaas much as I am against conditions in Aboriginal stations in NT
*CS Lewis caveat
 
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CM86

Anindilyakwa
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No actually , I don't support how we have happened to have homeless concern , I sit down and talk to folks and bring food*
I don't think you represent the problem , Kennett closed Kew cottages and sold schools to Bailieu developments right? I am square in the centre , but I dont see those who mouth woke homilies shoulder2shoulder with Mark Bolton

I see those who mouth the homilies utterly ignorant that the ubereats immigrant delivery person is on indentured servant wages and shares his bedroom 2 to a single bed. I am against that person's conditions in Australiaas much as I am against conditions in Aboriginal stations in NT
*CS Lewis caveat
What do you mean? Why does it have to be so binary?
You don't think I represent the problem, but you're responding to me like you're addressing a person who does represent the problem.

Like, I genuinely think it's a beautiful aspect of humanity, that you will sit and talk to homeless people, bring them food, treat them like humans.
There are plenty of people who consider them less than animal. They'd laugh at some dishevelled in appearance homeless man get punched, or kicked, or knocked out. Or even take the twisted pleasure of doing it themselves.
But they would completely lose their sh*t if they saw someone kick a dog...

And it can be argued that the response is about the natural innocence of the animal, or they think of their own pet, or the animal doesn't understand etc etc.

Which brings me to mental health...
You sit down and talk to some folks, and bring some of them food. You're not doing it for all of the homeless. Well over 100,000 people homeless in Australia, realistically, your actions have no real impact on the homeless. You're only impacting some individual homeless people, some of the time.
You sit down, you talk, you feed, you leave. Then that night they get sexually assaulted or beaten again. Your actions, relatively, are meaningless to the homeless of Australia.
You may actually be the person, overall, getting the most out of it.

Now... I'm not being binary. I don't want you to stop doing what you're doing at all. If more and more people able to, did the same thing, it could start to actually have an impact on the homeless population. But those actions will still never slow the increase in homelessness.

Health, Mental health, education, and an actual safety net that catches you and helps you back up, rather than a sand pit that becomes harder and harder to escape from.


Two of the main drivers for youth homelessness is mental health leading to self medicating, and the other is being a victim of sexual assault.
Which brings me to a point I tried to make earlier, about the importance of the 'weaponised megaphone'. Victims need to know that they are not to blame.


I am against that person's conditions in Australiaas much as I am against conditions in Aboriginal stations in NT
Why?
Why can't we avoid this binary you're committed to?
Can't we look at individuals, and individual areas, and be aware that some situations are worse than others. And we realistically work to help them all.
You don't look at someone who is about to step in front of a moving car, and someone who is about to spill their coffee and say you're 'as much against each condition' and put the same amount of work into helping both. Centrist doesn't mean binary.

*CS Lewis caveat
Yeah, good one.
I attempt to treat all with generosity and heart
 

Sweet Jesus

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How does other forms of sexual assault and harassment (outside of Metoo) diminish or inform Metoo?
If you are against sexual assault, you should be against sexual assault regardless of whether the perpetrator is male or female.

That's how principles work.

Do #metoo campaigners only condemn sexual assault if a man is involved?

Its like running the argument that the IRA's existence somehow make ISIS less of a threat.
This is a deeply stupid, nonsensical analogy.
 

Sweet Jesus

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Malifice

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How is it a strawman? I haven't misrepresented anyone's argument.
Its the literal definition of a Strawman.

The Metoo movement is focused on abuse of the patriarchy by men to perpetuate sexually predatory behavior. That doesnt lead to the corollary that Metoo must therefore somehow approve of other forms of sexual coercion, abuse and violence.

Using your logic, an entity dedicated to opposing child sex abuse in the Catholic church somehow must approve of other forms of child sex abuse in other organizations or contexts.

I hope they are equally prepared to condemn sexual assault perpetrated by women.
Why would they? That's not their focus, and it has literally nothing to do with Metoo (which has its focus on the abuse of patriarchal power by men to facilitate sexual abuse).

It's like saying White Ribbon (a group that exists to prevent Mens violence against Women) supports terrorists because they dont comment on other forms of violence (like terrorism).

It's a strawman argument of the highest order.
 

Sweet Jesus

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Its the literal definition of a Strawman.
It really isn't.

A strawman is when you misrepresent an argument to make it easier to rebut. I haven't done that. You might want to double-check your "literal definition".

The Metoo movement is focused on abuse of the patriarchy by men to perpetuate sexually predatory behavior. That doesnt lead to the corollary that Metoo must therefore somehow approve of other forms of sexual coercion, abuse and violence.
Where did I suggest they would approve of it?

On the contrary, I've said I hope they are prepared to condemn sexual assault/harrassment perpetrated by women, or at least take the allegations seriously.

What part of that do you find objectionable?

Should they not condemn it, simply because men aren't involved? If they are against sexual assault/harrassment, what difference does it make if the perpetrator abusing their power is a woman?

Using your logic, an entity dedicated to opposing child sex abuse in the Catholic church somehow must approve of other forms of child sex abuse in other organizations or contexts.
This is an actual strawman.

Stop offering ludicrous analogies.

Why would they? That's not their focus, and it has literally nothing to do with Metoo (which has its focus on the abuse of patriarchal power by men to facilitate sexual abuse).
So presumably they would also condemn sexual assault/harrassment when perpetrated by women?

Surely sexual assault/harrassment isn't bad only when men are involved? It's also bad when women do it, no?

So people who campaign against sexual assault/harrassment should condemn it regardless of the gender of the perpetrator.

Again, what part of that do you find objectionable?

It's like saying White Ribbon (a group that exists to prevent Mens violence against Women) supports terrorists because they dont comment on other forms of violence (like terrorism).
Another ludicrous analogy/strawman.

It's a strawman argument of the highest order.
I don't think you understand that term.
 
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