List Mgmt. Mid-Season Draft - Who do we take?

[boffo]

Rory Sloane didn't get selected in the 2007 draft.

You're right there, mainly because he wasn't eligible.

 

[ams4crows]

Rory Sloane didn't get selected in the 2007 draft.

Correct we picked Aaron Kite with our last selection that year, we were tossing up between him and Sloane thank god we did get him the year aftet.

 

[chazwazza]

I know these players want to get to the highest level and I don't blame them for that, it's not there fault.
I was resigned to the fact we would lose one player mid year but two was a surprise.
Noble was always going to be taken on potential because of his pace and hard running in the midfield.
Snelling is a hardworking good in and under player but he had already spent time on a list.

We've now lost Snelling, Noble, Burgess and Rankine in the last 6 months.
It's just so difficult for a team like West to replace that much quality and especially mid year.
The trouble is we get no compensation for a couple of those players...zero, no money to fund replacements.

What so many posters fail to factor in is the effect something like this has on football as a whole and a struggling club like West who already operate under a restricted salary cap.
We need to replace those players but we have limited finances, get no compensation and already struggle to attract quality recruits.
The aim in any comp is to win the premiership and to remain competitive. This in turn attracts patrons, sponsors and new recruits which ensures survival.

Inevitably will end up playing more juniors who'll try their best but aren't physically strong enough yet. Unfortunately this won't win us a lot more games this season.
Sure we get more games into these lads which theoretically should set us up for the future however if they show potential they get drafted and we fall again.
This is such a catch 22.

Why does it matter?
There are poster here who constantly voice 'stuff the SANFL' but they are quite literally morons or clueless to how the game survives and thrives as a whole in this state.
The AFL is the pinnacle and that is apparently all they see or enjoy.
Take your blinkers off for once and look at the bigger picture, do you really love the actual game of football?

The real aim is to get as many people enjoying football as possible at every level.
We want young kids to play or watch football over soccer, basketball or computer games.
The game needs to survive in country towns and suburban grounds to keep the interest alive.
It may sound a stretch but an Australian rules football club is one of the main economic and social drivers in smaller communities.

The SANFL clubs are one of a few bodies which nurture and fund the development of kids and provide quality competition for their improvement. This is the elite competition in this state which future AFL players are drafted from, (League and under 18's.)
The SANFL have the structures in place. The ovals, facilities, networks,umpires, and the hundreds of volunteers that give their time and energy to keep this development going. (All which cost dollars.)
Some of the hundreds of the players who don't make SANFL league teams eventually filter back to country and suburban football.
From that development pool comes the players and their abilities that fill the coffers of those clubs.

I read so much tripe about the AFL stepping in and running football in this state.
They may be prepared to fund a Crows and Port reserve team and an elite under 18's team but to fund a whole under 18's comp in this state would IMO be a logistical nightmare and the costs exorbitant.
And that is not factoring in the similar costs needed for an identical womens pathway, (our largest growing participation rate comp) or will that be ignored?
Plus those competitions only caters for a fraction of the actual football that is played here.

If the SANFL community did cease the ripple effect would be massive to football in this state.
That is why it is so important that the individual clubs which collectively are the SANFL must also survive.
Their development programs are one of the driving forces which guarantee the health of grassroots football for men and women in this state.
Development squads, underage pathways and running league teams costs money and their budgets are that tight that the money from drafting could be the difference in the long run to their survival.

Footballers deserve to play at the highest level but clubs need to be compensated for that loss and the flow on expenses that follow.

Well said and well explained. I agree 100% with all that you’ve stated. If the MSD continues as is for the next few years I seriously think it can spell the end to some SANFL clubs.
If there’s no meaningful compensation, ($100k per player as a minimum) and supporters are forced to see their players taken at the start and halfway through the season they’ll lose faith and will, to continue to support their club.......and the club will suffer and fold.

If the self imposed “custodians” of Australian Rules Football continue to see fit to constantly erode the foundations of the game and its history the whole sport will be worse off and thus suffer.

We now have three clubs directly and severely affected by this farce and it won’t just be results on the field.

 

[Crowbots are dead]

I think people are missing the point when they say that the list of players isn't very good. Who knows how good the list is? If this system had been around back in 2008, Rory Sloane would have been available. If it had been around in 1999, Matthew Pavlich would have been available.

Yes, most of the players are unlikely to play an AFL game. But what's the harm in taking a shot? $70k should be pocket change, and one more player in the group shouldn't have any meaningful impact on the amount of face-to-face coaching or resources we have to put in. This is akin to finding an unopened scratchy and thinking, well, I wouldn't want to risk breaking a fingernail, and I probably won't win so I'll just bin it instead.

Even if they are unlikely to play a game, who knows? Maybe they flourish when they move to an AFL system. Maybe we cop a horror month of injuries and suddenly they're the next up. Who knows? Well, we'll never know now.

The only potential benefit I can think of is that at least we can look at every player from our squad in the eye and say, you're here because we wanted you here, not because we had to fill a list spot.

It’s not pocket change because the salary cap means that it has significant opportunity cost attached. The idea is that carrying a few less spots allows you to direct salary cap into your emerging talent to ensure retention. I see no point in filling our list up for the sake of it.

 

[Mego Red]

So we play a 27 year old ahead of Stengle, McHenry, McAdam and Murphy.

You would complain about that too.

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Me?

No, I would always want us to play to win. I'm firmly NOT in the 'keep putting games into speculative kids and lose now for the possibility of winning in the future".

That being said, I'm also annoyed about our playing less talented players because they show endeavor.

 

[Mego Red]

3 decent picks? Ok so we're like every other club, seeing how quickly picks become a crapshoot.

It's a pretty safe bet we won't use pick 88 either. We'll just bank on them sliding to the rookie draft where they are cheaper.

Not every club is turning over 12 or so players in the next two years due to retirements.

 

[Bazz_27]

You're right there, mainly because he wasn't eligible.

https://www.afc.com.au/news/2016-11-13/national-draft-bargains

maybe do some research before calling people out...

 

[Mego Red]

27 year old with a past criminal record moving from WA with a wife and 3 kids for $50,000 and a guaranteed $20,000 if the Tigers don't re-contract him......what could possibly go wrong?

Hmmm, I remember people saying a lot about the risks around Sydney Stack before the last draft.

Pickett seems to have his life sorted out. Good on him. Certainly has achieved a fair bit on the ground.

 

[Mego Red]

You're right there, mainly because he wasn't eligible.

Whoops.

 

[Bicks]

Well said and well explained. I agree 100% with all that you’ve stated. If the MSD continues as is for the next few years I seriously think it can spell the end to some SANFL clubs.
If there’s no meaningful compensation, ($100k per player as a minimum) and supporters are forced to see their players taken at the start and halfway through the season they’ll lose faith and will, to continue to support their club.......and the club will suffer and fold.

If the self imposed “custodians” of Australian Rules Football continue to see fit to constantly erode the foundations of the game and its history the whole sport will be worse off and thus suffer.

We now have three clubs directly and severely affected by this farce and it won’t just be results on the field.

South lose their No.1 Ruckman Keegan Brooksby to the WCE in the 2018 rookie draft so they go on a nation wide search and settle on Sandringham Dragons Ruckman/Forward Hayden McLean settle him in Adelaide and find him employment only to have the Swans rip him off them in the pre-season draft only a couple of weeks before the SANFL season....now they lose their No. 1 Ruckman Michael Knoll who the Panthers plucked out of the VFL once again to the Swans who already have a plethora of Rucks on their list. It's a ******* joke!!!!

https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2019-05-27/pick-four-michael-knoll

Profile

Michael Knoll is a ruckman who can also impact as a forward. The 26-year-old has joined Callum Sinclair, Sam Naismith, Darcy Cameron, Hayden McLean and Joel Amartey in the Swans' developing ruck department. Formerly with the Box Hill Hawks in the VFL, Knoll signed with South Adelaide in the SANFL ahead of season 2019.

What they said

"He's progressed really well in recent years. Ever since he got an opportunity to play at South Adelaide he's developed really well, and we hope that development can continue at the Swans."

- Sydney Swans National Recruiting Manager Simon Dalrymple

 

[Bicks]

Hmmm, I remember people saying a lot about the risks around Sydney Stack before the last draft.

Pickett seems to have his life sorted out. Good on him. Certainly has achieved a fair bit on the ground.

I remember a lot of people talking about the risks around Dayle Garlett, Harley Bennell, Josh Simpson and Chris Yarran too.

Good luck to Pickett hope he does well, interesting what happens with Tim Kelly at season's end.

 

[Geoffa32]

Me?

No, I would always want us to play to win. I'm firmly NOT in the 'keep putting games into speculative kids and lose now for the possibility of winning in the future".

That being said, I'm also annoyed about our playing less talented players because they show endeavor.

Why you upset we didnt take a speculative player then?

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[chazwazza]

South lose their No.1 Ruckman Keegan Brooksby to the WCE in the 2018 rookie draft so they go on a nation wide search and settle on Sandringham Dragons Ruckman/Forward Hayden McLean settle him in Adelaide and find him employment only to have the Swans rip him off them in the pre-season draft only a couple of weeks before the SANFL season....now they lose their No. 1 Ruckman Michael Knoll who the Panthers plucked out of the VFL once again to the Swans who already have a plethora of Rucks on their list. It's a ******* joke!!!!

https://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2019-05-27/pick-four-michael-knoll

Profile

Michael Knoll is a ruckman who can also impact as a forward. The 26-year-old has joined Callum Sinclair, Sam Naismith, Darcy Cameron, Hayden McLean and Joel Amartey in the Swans' developing ruck department. Formerly with the Box Hill Hawks in the VFL, Knoll signed with South Adelaide in the SANFL ahead of season 2019.

What they said

"He's progressed really well in recent years. Ever since he got an opportunity to play at South Adelaide he's developed really well, and we hope that development can continue at the Swans."

- Sydney Swans National Recruiting Manager Simon Dalrymple

It’s almost like Sydney have something against South. To be honest it makes me pretty angry it’s allowed to happen.

 

[cmndstab]

You do realise only players who were previously in a national draft (amongst other restrictions) could be selected?

Yes? That's why I chose those examples. Pavlich was overlooked by all clubs in the 1998 draft, and Sloane by all clubs in the 2007 draft. They would have been available if a mid-season draft were available in 1999 or 2008 respectively.

He may still not been picked in this draft ie a mid season one as our recruiters may have only decided to take the punt on him at pick 55 after a full season after his draft year, ie a full year of Footy.

That's not the point. The point is that people are saying these players are no good because they were all overlooked by every club already. I'm saying that high quality players sometimes slip through drafts. Hell, Matthew Priddis won a Brownlow Medal after being overlooked three drafts in a row!

 

[Bicks]

It’s almost like Sydney have something against South. To be honest it makes me pretty angry it’s allowed to happen.

Yep when you consider both McLean and Knoll were available to them in the 2018 Rookie Draft if they were so deperate for Ruckman. I mean how many ******* ruckmen do they need?

 

[Mego Red]

Why you upset we didnt take a speculative player then?

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Because I think there are holes on our list (either now or over the next couple of years), such as lockdown small defender, outside mid, tall defender and I would have liked us to use EVERY channel available to us to improve our list.

Every. Channel. Available.

 

[Mego Red]

Yep when you consider both McLean and Knoll were available to them in the 2018 Rookie Draft if they were so deperate for Ruckman. I mean how many ******* ruckmen do they need?

Well, one more after Naismith had a longterm injury.

 

[Geoffa32]

Because I think there are holes on our list (either now or over the next couple of years), such as lockdown small defender, outside mid, tall defender and I would have liked us to use EVERY channel available to us to improve our list.

Every. Channel. Available.

I agree. I also think Ogilvie knows what he is doing (it is one are in the sport we are genuinely elite at) and think us passing is him saying the guys he rated are gone.

No point just pulling a name out of the hat to tick a box saying we utilized this draft.






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[hey shorty]

I remember a lot of people talking about the risks around Dayle Garlett, Harley Bennell, Josh Simpson and Chris Yarran too.

Good luck to Pickett hope he does well, interesting what happens with Tim Kelly at season's end.

He won't play for the next 8-10 weeks due to injury, why would we have bothered anyway.

 

[Bicks]

Because I think there are holes on our list (either now or over the next couple of years), such as lockdown small defender, outside mid, tall defender and I would have liked us to use EVERY channel available to us to improve our list.

Every. Channel. Available.

I don't disagree with the essence of this but clearly Ogilvie and his team didn't rate what was still available highly enough to invest time and money into to. I think the small lockdown defender is already on our list if required Lachie Murphy just requires a role change, I also think Ogilvie drafted Hamill and Sholl with outside mid/wing roles in mind. I would like us to use our 2nd or 3rd pick on a developing young Ruckman like Nick Bryan or similar if Ogilvie deems them good enough or at least a rookie spot, enough of these mature agers types, let's develop a youngster or trade for a proven AFL quality Ruck.

 

[Golumless]

You're right there, mainly because he wasn't eligible.

Nope, was on the younger side, however he was eligible. https://www.afc.com.au/news/2015-11-05/my-draft-day-rory-sloane

We chose Kite over Sloane with pick 70 odd in 2007, with Rendell going for needs over best option.

 

[Golumless]

Not every club is turning over 12 or so players in the next two years due to retirements.

It's not 12 players retiring, it's 5 (Betts, Douglas, Jacobs, Otten and most likely Mackay either this season or next season). Not only that, but we'd be looking at turning over 8-12 players over the next two years (including delistings, and potential trades), which is pretty much bang on the AFL average for turnover list wise.

Comfortably doable with just the draft picks we have.

 

[hey shorty]

It's not 12 players retiring, it's 5 (Betts, Douglas, Jacobs, Otten and most likely Mackay either this season or next season). Not only that, but we'd be looking at turning over 8-12 players over the next two years (including delistings, and potential trades), which is pretty much bang on the AFL average for turnover list wise.

Comfortably doable with just the draft picks we have.

Shhhh with your logic

 

[hey shorty]

Nope, was on the younger side, however it was eligible. https://www.afc.com.au/news/2015-11-05/my-draft-day-rory-sloane

We chose Kite over Sloane with pick 70 odd in 2007, with Rendell going for needs over best option.

At least he realised his mistake.

 

[Golumless]

At least he realised his mistake.

Yup, that could have been a real sliding doors moment.