Milestone reached: Goodbye utility, hello KPPs

[The Magnificent Seven]

I don't want to get too carried away by yesterday's win - let's be fair, the opposition crumbled like a 3-month-old-weetbix - but what I saw was pretty much the end of an era.

Without Lockyer, O'Bree and Brown - and pretty soon Fraser - we look to have finally made the transition from a team of "Good, honest, workman-like" utility players to a team brimming with purpose, poise and skill for specific roles.

Forwards: Anthony, Dawes and Cloke rotating between FF and CHF providing genuine targets up forward and a reasonably accurate set shot. Dick, Davis, Medhurst as crumbing, dangerous forward pockets and excellent at spotting up loose players or turning nothing into something. If Cloke's contested marking continues like this, I'm going to rename him 'Ganesh', the many armed-one.

Mids: Ball, Pendlebury, Beams as tough in-and-unders with enough poise to link up to outside runners such as Didak, Wellingham, Sidebottom and Swan who are also winning enough of their own creative, contested ball. Brilliant at switching into the shit-down defensive structure.

Backline: N. Brown, Reid and Maxwell providing solid last-line defence and shutdown. O'Brien, Johnson, Shaw, Thomas and Toovey giving excellent legspeed, carry and quick hands to get the ball past a rolling zone and into space whilst still tackling and pressuring the ball in a turnover situation.

Rucks: Jolly and (not far off) Wood providing genuine skilful tap ruckwork, forward targets and can still find their own footy in a contest. Fraser as depth in the ruck, however Jolly and Fraser - even Woody to an extent - still dangerous in front of the sticks.

Depth: McCarthy, Buckley, Goldsack, Barham - potential for more in a year or two with Blight, Thomas, Sinclair and even McNamara.

This isn't a 'Win the flag' brag thread, more of a moment-in-time when as a Pies supporter I can say "this was the moment when..." There's barely a player on this list who is now good-average at a number of roles - they excel in more specific positions and instructions.

Can you imagine next year with this whole list with an extra 1-2kgs of muscle, big-stage match experience and forward-line coaching from N. Buckley?

Exciting times, guys.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

Damn straight, it'll be exciting the next couple of years if they can keep those core players playing so well together.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

You had me at "shit-down".

I think you're a little optimistic/pessimistic (depending on which way you look at it) on Fraser though. He was good yesterday. If he can keep up that level as a forward/ruckman now he keeps his spot.

Another question; assuming that, like me, everyone else here liked having some structure up forward, where do we slot JA in when he puts some good games together and gains some fitness? No doubt he's best 22 on talent, but what's the best role for him to play in the team?

 

[The Magnificent Seven]

Another question; assuming that, like me, everyone else here liked having some structure up forward, where do we slot JA in when he puts some good games together and gains some fitness?

Rotating off the bench, allowing both Dawes/Cloke to run like a midfielder then giving each 1 or 2 spells per quarter to recover and to mess with opposition match-ups.

 

[Zahki]

I hope that at some point this year we see Cloke, Dawes and Anthony all playing in the same side. Not many teams would have 3 quality tall defenders, it would really stretch some defenses I reckon.

 

[handy point]

I hope that at some point this year we see Cloke, Dawes and Anthony all playing in the same side. Not many teams would have 3 quality tall defenders, it would really stretch some defenses I reckon.

Reckon that will totally depend on JA's ability to apply forward pressure. If he can't, and Dawes starts taking contested grabs, there's no spot for him at the moment.

The days of having players like Rocca, Tarrant and Molloy in the forward 50 are gone.

 

[handy point]

Great thread though, was in Melbourne for the weekend, and as soon as I found out the three young KPP's were in, I was pumped... we've got to see what they can do at the top level.

 

[HFF]

When Jack is available for senior selection again (which hopefully isn't too far away), he can easily slot back into FF or in the pocket.

IMO, he is at his best when playing close to goal. Is pretty strong overhead considering he still needs to add more size to his frame and his goal kicking is his major weapon- therefore we utilise this weapon by playing him within goal scoring range, simple.

 

[Thommo 42]

I see JA in the future as an Adam Hunter style 'swing man' who can go back or forward at anytime.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I see JA in the future as an Adam Hunter style 'swing man' who can go back or forward at anytime.

That would be ideal.

 

[half_back_flank]

I see JA in the future as an Adam Hunter style 'swing man' who can go back or forward at anytime.

Idea has lots and lots (and lots) of merit.

 

[smiddaz123]

I see JA in the future as an Adam Hunter style 'swing man' who can go back or forward at anytime.

Completely agree. Definitely shouldn't be thought of as just a forward.

 

[doppleganger]

Reckon that will totally depend on JA's ability to apply forward pressure. If he can't, and Dawes starts taking contested grabs, there's no spot for him at the moment.

The days of having players like Rocca, Tarrant and Molloy in the forward 50 are gone.

Bit harsh on Taz and especially Molloy. They provided plenty of forward pressure...when fit.

But agree, JA will get back in when he is applying forward pressure, the goals will eventually come.

 

[sr36]

Completely agree. Definitely shouldn't be thought of as just a forward.

Completely disagree. jack is a dumb footballer. His decision making would destroy us if he was used up the ground. I don't even like it when he leaves the 50.

 

[The Norm]

Reckon that will totally depend on JA's ability to apply forward pressure. If he can't, and Dawes starts taking contested grabs, there's no spot for him at the moment.

Spot on. Dawes isn't very good above his head - yet - but his size and athleticism allow him to provide a contest, whereas if JA gets beaten, that's usually the end of it.

Physically JA certainly has his limitations, but switching from 2nd to 3rd tall would obviously make it a lot easier on him.

Can you have Trav, Dawes, JA, Medhurst and Fraser in the same side though? I don't think so.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Can you have Trav, Dawes, JA, Medhurst and Fraser in the same side though? I don't think so.

You probably can't have them all starting. Fraser and/or JA could come off the bench though, particularly if JA also plays down back. He probably wouldn't provide any real run-and-carry, but he could spot up targets streaming down the wing beautifully.

 

[notorious_zhang]

I hope to see Lockyer back in the side at HFF this year, I think he is still in our best 22

 

[shawthing09]

I like the thought process but I think it's a tad early. As you mentioned the opposition was remarkably poor on the weekend.

Brown and Reid really didn't have to deal with many foward thrusts and nearly never any of them where meaningful.

Dawes will almost never ever get that much space and have mids with that much space to deliver the ball and hit him on the chest. Let's face it Cloke took 3 or four bounces on the wing when has Cloke ever taken one running bounce?

but I do like the thought process, we have managed to build a list of players who play a role rather then jack of all trade stop gaps types. Good times.

 

[mlorandi]

I see JA in the future as an Adam Hunter style 'swing man' who can go back or forward at anytime.

That's an insult to Adam Hunter- tough, football smarts, exactly what Jack Attack lacks. Yes, has a good kick for goal, but a handfull of kicks a game ain't good enough. JA needs to work harder on/off the ground, as he struggles against quality/strong defenders. Even my 6 year son has picked up on JA lack of brains...
I can see him playing for the Gold Coast next year.
cheers, ML -

 

[PIES 4 LIFE]

No we won't be getting rid of JA. Give the kid some time. He had a good year last year, this year he is struggling. He needs to get some consistency, which will come with experience. Not every player will become great, IMO Anthony plays his part when at his best, he is just down on confidence at the moment. Give him his time in the two's and let him earn his spot back.

He will be in our plans going forward, because as much as it pains me to admit, Cloke alone wont win us a premiership, I would like to think Dawes can do the job, maybe he can but it will be rotated monthly between JA as well.

 

[The Magnificent Seven]

...Brown and Reid really didn't have to deal with many foward thrusts and nearly never any of them where meaningful.

Dawes will almost never ever get that much space and have mids with that much space to deliver the ball and hit him on the chest. Let's face it Cloke took 3 or four bounces on the wing when has Cloke ever taken one running bounce?...

That's it - the team as mentioned above hasn't really been 'tested' as such. But we did get to see how it could work, given a bit more time, on a more consistent basis. If Reidy can show that kind of commitment and smarts week in, week out I'll be chuffed.

 

[September Action]

I don't want to get too carried away by yesterday's win - let's be fair, the opposition crumbled like a 3-month-old-weetbix - but what I saw was pretty much the end of an era.

Without Lockyer, O'Bree and Brown - and pretty soon Fraser - we look to have finally made the transition from a team of "Good, honest, workman-like" utility players to a team brimming with purpose, poise and skill for specific roles.

Forwards: Anthony, Dawes and Cloke rotating between FF and CHF providing genuine targets up forward and a reasonably accurate set shot. Dick, Davis, Medhurst as crumbing, dangerous forward pockets and excellent at spotting up loose players or turning nothing into something. If Cloke's contested marking continues like this, I'm going to rename him 'Ganesh', the many armed-one.

Mids: Ball, Pendlebury, Beams as tough in-and-unders with enough poise to link up to outside runners such as Didak, Wellingham, Sidebottom and Swan who are also winning enough of their own creative, contested ball. Brilliant at switching into the shit-down defensive structure.

Backline: N. Brown, Reid and Maxwell providing solid last-line defence and shutdown. O'Brien, Johnson, Shaw, Thomas and Toovey giving excellent legspeed, carry and quick hands to get the ball past a rolling zone and into space whilst still tackling and pressuring the ball in a turnover situation.

Rucks: Jolly and (not far off) Wood providing genuine skilful tap ruckwork, forward targets and can still find their own footy in a contest. Fraser as depth in the ruck, however Jolly and Fraser - even Woody to an extent - still dangerous in front of the sticks.

Depth: McCarthy, Buckley, Goldsack, Barham - potential for more in a year or two with Blight, Thomas, Sinclair and even McNamara.

This isn't a 'Win the flag' brag thread, more of a moment-in-time when as a Pies supporter I can say "this was the moment when..." There's barely a player on this list who is now good-average at a number of roles - they excel in more specific positions and instructions.

Can you imagine next year with this whole list with an extra 1-2kgs of muscle, big-stage match experience and forward-line coaching from N. Buckley?

Exciting times, guys.

Like to see Sinclair blooded. He looked likely in the NAB.

My gut feeling is the Sack should also be in the 1s. Don't know who for though. Easy option is Possum Eyes but I suspect he is doing a job every week.

 

[Pendles!]

No we won't be getting rid of JA. Give the kid some time. He had a good year last year, this year he is struggling. He needs to get some consistency, which will come with experience. Not every player will become great, IMO Anthony plays his part when at his best, he is just down on confidence at the moment. Give him his time in the two's and let him earn his spot back.

He will be in our plans going forward, because as much as it pains me to admit, Cloke alone wont win us a premiership, I would like to think Dawes can do the job, maybe he can but it will be rotated monthly between JA as well.

Opinions have changed very, very quickly...

 

[TomBolt]

I don't want to get too carried away by yesterday's win - let's be fair, the opposition crumbled like a 3-month-old-weetbix - but what I saw was pretty much the end of an era.

Without Lockyer, O'Bree and Brown - and pretty soon Fraser - we look to have finally made the transition from a team of "Good, honest, workman-like" utility players to a team brimming with purpose, poise and skill for specific roles.

Forwards: Anthony, Dawes and Cloke rotating between FF and CHF providing genuine targets up forward and a reasonably accurate set shot. Dick, Davis, Medhurst as crumbing, dangerous forward pockets and excellent at spotting up loose players or turning nothing into something. If Cloke's contested marking continues like this, I'm going to rename him 'Ganesh', the many armed-one.

Mids: Ball, Pendlebury, Beams as tough in-and-unders with enough poise to link up to outside runners such as Didak, Wellingham, Sidebottom and Swan who are also winning enough of their own creative, contested ball. Brilliant at switching into the shit-down defensive structure.

Backline: N. Brown, Reid and Maxwell providing solid last-line defence and shutdown. O'Brien, Johnson, Shaw, Thomas and Toovey giving excellent legspeed, carry and quick hands to get the ball past a rolling zone and into space whilst still tackling and pressuring the ball in a turnover situation.

Rucks: Jolly and (not far off) Wood providing genuine skilful tap ruckwork, forward targets and can still find their own footy in a contest. Fraser as depth in the ruck, however Jolly and Fraser - even Woody to an extent - still dangerous in front of the sticks.

Depth: McCarthy, Buckley, Goldsack, Barham - potential for more in a year or two with Blight, Thomas, Sinclair and even McNamara.

This isn't a 'Win the flag' brag thread, more of a moment-in-time when as a Pies supporter I can say "this was the moment when..." There's barely a player on this list who is now good-average at a number of roles - they excel in more specific positions and instructions.

Can you imagine next year with this whole list with an extra 1-2kgs of muscle, big-stage match experience and forward-line coaching from N. Buckley?

Exciting times, guys.

Agreed, it's best position we've been in for a long time.

Put it another way, assuming you've retired Presti, Lockyer, O'Bree & L Brown, you have:

B: Harry N.Brown Toov
NB: Maxy Reid Heath
C: Daisy Pendles Johno
HF: Davis Cloke Dids
F: Meds Dawes Beams
R: Jolly Swan Wello
Int: Frazer / Ball / Sidey / Dick

Thats 22, leaving depth from:
- Wood
- McCaff
- Goldi
- JA
- McCarthy
- Blight
- Rus
- Any youngsters that develop
Impressive - thanks Mr Hine & co

 

[PIES 4 LIFE]

Opinions have changed very, very quickly...

Not really, My opinion has always been that Cloke really is our man up forward, he just needs to improve his accuracy, but unless we can get some others helping out, the opposition will just target him evey week.

JA is the one going forward that can fill this spot unfortunately he is having a bad patch, Dawes has the (potential) yes I know, I hate that word as well, the only thing is, he can never put together more than a handful of consistent games, at least in MM eyes anyway.

I really feel we have the team that can challenge for the premiership, we just need to get the forwards to gell. We have the Midfield, We have the Backline, we just need the forwards to do their job consistently and who knows maybe we will have glory in Micks final seasons.