Research Missing DOD or DOB for League players (AFL)

RedmanWasHere

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I found a registration for Douglas in 1900 in the NSW registry in Cowora.

As Arthur and Agnes are Neil Balme's great grandparents, maybe Rhett could contact him to ask if he knows any more info about Gerry and why they might not be registered.

Even more immediate.

Neil's nephew Ned Balme is on Twitter so Ned can be another sounding board.
 

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rbartlett

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rbartlett anything on Burns?
The extracts for Burns are from Richmond Juniors of the Victorian Juniors FA.
Richmond Juniors were amalgamation of Richmond City and West Richmond on April 2 1902. The Senior Richmond club offered the Richmond Cricket Ground for free, as well as its amenities
It's not right to say Burns was from Richmond VFA, as he didn't play senior Richmond VFA.

Does that help ?
 

rbartlett

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Even more immediate.

Neil's nephew Ned Balme is on Twitter so Ned can be another sounding board.
I'm a bit lost with the Gerald Balme query. What do you need me to ask Neil or Ned about Gerald.
Are we querying his DOB? his place of birth, or his DOD ?
 

GreyCrow

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Updated 20 November 2018


<snip> still to be found
6 *Desmond 'Des' Clyde Bell b:23/5/1923 Melb 1946-1948 alive in 2016
7 *Ronald "Ron" Arthur Bickley b:21/10/1926 Fitz 1949-1951 alive #post 561 April 2 2018
13 *Alfred Joseph Callick b:14/8/1925 SthMelb 1943,1946-1950 alive in 2016
32 *Harry Leslie "Les" Gardner b:30/9/1923 StK 1947 alive 2014
36 *Gordon Stanley Green b:31/5/1925 NthMelb 1942 alive in 2017
68 *James "Jim" Malone b:13/11/1925 NthMelb 1945-52 still living as of March 29 2018
111 *Lionel Charles Upton b:3/10/1924 NthMelb 1948 alive Aug 2017


11 Henry "Harry" John Brown b:16/10/1903 St Kilda 1927
12 Samuel Otto John Buck b:15/11/1876 Carlton 1897
18 Jack Louis Cliff b:23/5/1919 StK 1940-42
21 Eugene Francis "Frank" Corby b:24/12/1924 Coll:1948
22 Frederick "Fred" Rowland Coulsell b:17/12/1905 Nth:1927,Ess 1931
23 Robert "Bobby" Ritchie Craig b:29/3/1882 Melb 1902
33 James "Jimmy" Gaynor b:17/5/1877 Carl 1904
34 Maxwell "Max" Herbert Glass b:2/10/1925 Sth 1945
39 Roger"Bill" Musgrove Hearn b:4/3/1914 Rich 1935
40 Edward "Ted" Page Heffernan b:16/5/1869 Carl 1897
49 Charles "Charlie" Herbert Jenkins b:17/6/1878 Fitz 1898
52 *Geoffrey John Kerr b:7/4/1925 Stk 1945;1947
53 *James "Jim" Francis Kirby b:21/12/1922 NthM 1946
54 Edmund Kirwin b:31/3/1876 StKilda 1898
59 William "Billy" Francis Roy Leahy b:7/3/1911 Foots 1934-1936
60 Thomas "Tom" Francis Lee b:11/12/1874 Coll 1897-98
63 George Lockwood b:6/12/1872 Geel 1899-1901,Coll 1902-04
71 John "Joe" Albert Marchant b:11/9/1884 StKilda 1904
72 Joseph "Joe" Thomas Marr b:9/08/1880 Carlton1900-02, Ess:1903 Died Prior 1918
74 Charlie McCartney b:26/2/1874 SthMelb 1897,Ess 1899
75 *James "Jim" Kenneth McDonald b:24/6/1916 Melb 1942
76 Patrick "Paddy" John McDonald b:27/3/1897 Ess 1918-19
78 John "Jack" James McKenzie b:19/8/1908 Ess 1929
84 Alfred "Alf" Carl Frank Neeson b:15/6/1914 Fitz 1935-36, Haw 1936-38
87 Michael "Mick" Joseph O'Hagan b:22/1/1878 StK 1897
88 *George Henry Prismall b:10/3/1915 Ess 1935
89 *Robert "Bob" Reid b:8/6/1924 Footscray 1948-49
90 Samuel "Sam" Alexander Reid b:17/6/1872 Carlton 1897
94 Archibald Robinson b:9/7/1890 Richmond 1911
95 Raymond Paul Ross b:2/5/1900 Ess 1921
97 Alan James "Ginger" Ryan b:26/9/1909 Melb 1932-33,Coll 1934-38
103 James "Jim" William Smith b:11/2/1887 Sth 1906
105 *Stanley Vincent Smith b:17/4/1925 Coll 1947-50
108 Horace "Horrie" Stewart b:29/5/1871 Ess 1898 As noted #Post 552 by WHL
110 James "Jim" Scott Sutherland b:10/5/1900 Sth 1924
116 *Albert "Alby" Joseph Williams b:3/8/1916 NthMelb 1943
117 William "Billy" Francis Williams b:2/5/1888 StKilda 1907
118 William "Bill" Henry Woods b:21/8/1890 Geelong 1909

I think it helps to have them separated and also on the last page ( for now)

Waiting for confirmation but likely solved
83 James "Jim" Reginald Morton b:25/10/1905 Nth 1927 As Joseph
99 John "Johnny" Patrick Ryan b:18/9/1938 Rich 1959 likely still alive
47 *Albert "Bert" Thomas James b:5/6/1923 Rich 1947 #597 confirmation needed


Completed
65 James "Jim" Gordon Lyons b:5/4/1876 Carlton 1897-98 DOD 26/12/1934 Inaccuracies Spreadsheet
25 Richard James Day b:17/2/1920 Nth:1943 DOD 5 August 1997 Inaccuracies Spreadsheet
77 Robert "Rhoda" Ernest McDonald b:29/4/1878 Coll 1897, Carl 1901,Rich(VFA) 1901-07 Until Fuurther Information surfaces Noted As Richard 4/12/1937 Liverpool NSW
114 Tom Wellington b:27/10/1894 Melb 1912-13 17/7/1955 #Post 664
73 *John "Jack" Llewellen Matthews b:22/10/1914 -27/10/1994 NthMelb 1941 #604 confirmation needed #Post 664
 

ThePope

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Still alive post 1945 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article70681819

Maybe his father needs to be in the Inaccuracies Thread? Says he played for Footscray. ( could be an association side)
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article70737088

Divorce granted to Sarah Grace 1935 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article70730659

Based on the desertion in 1934/1935 I offer this possibility. Based on his parents being born in Scotland could we suppose James/Jim to be a Scottish Piper?
1934 a footballer http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article201811928

1934 a piper http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article75990808

1939 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article46384408

1963 and still piping

All this leads to a burial of a James Sutherland in 1980 aged 80. ie born 1900
SUTHERLAND JAMES 80 years 1980 HELENA VALLEY

Just presenting an option to chase up
Looking at this one from the repeated list above, I don't think the WA piper is likely to be the guy. In the father's obituary in 1937, or death notice, there is no mention of James as being in WA as there often was at the time for absent family members. Also, there are 2 James Sutherlands listed in the WA BDM records as being born in 1898 and 1900, both of whom could the be the Helena Valley 1980 death. As for the footballer, the Beverley Sutherlands, originally from NSW, had a Jim too, and mentioned football in the mum's obituary.

Looking at the ancestry sites, he's listed on a couple of trees, one with a death date of 1974, but no more details, another as 1972 in Queensland. But there is no matching record on the Qld or NSW BDM sites. This site based around his divorced wife's family, shows that there might be some living children or grandchildren.

So still very much open, but I think the WA angle is not likely to be correct.
 

WhiteHartLane23

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Looking at this one from the repeated list above, I don't think the WA piper is likely to be the guy. In the father's obituary in 1937, or death notice, there is no mention of James as being in WA as there often was at the time for absent family members. Also, there are 2 James Sutherlands listed in the WA BDM records as being born in 1898 and 1900, both of whom could the be the Helena Valley 1980 death. As for the footballer, the Beverley Sutherlands, originally from NSW, had a Jim too, and mentioned football in the mum's obituary.

Looking at the ancestry sites, he's listed on a couple of trees, one with a death date of 1974, but no more details, another as 1972 in Queensland. But there is no matching record on the Qld or NSW BDM sites. This site based around his divorced wife's family, shows that there might be some living children or grandchildren.

So still very much open, but I think the WA angle is not likely to be correct.
I was looking at this yesterday... the Ancestry trees suggest James Scott Sutherland changed his name to James Francis Hardy and moved to Qld
Qld BDM shows a death on 31 May 1973 with the same mother's name as James Scott Sutherland (Kathleen Flanagan)

I've sent a message to what looks to be James's grandaughter on Ancestry to see if she can confirm a name change and what the story i behind this (or alternatively find out if it is just a wild guess)
 

ThePope

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I was looking at this yesterday... the Ancestry trees suggest James Scott Sutherland changed his name to James Francis Hardy and moved to Qld
Qld BDM shows a death on 31 May 1973 with the same mother's name as James Scott Sutherland (Kathleen Flanagan)

I've sent a message to what looks to be James's grandaughter on Ancestry to see if she can confirm a name change and what the story i behind this (or alternatively find out if it is just a wild guess)
Very good. Interesting if he did change his name, he also changed his dad's name, which was also James Scott, to also be James Francis Hardy.

Does the granddaughter's name match a name listed the Glenister site?
 

GreyCrow

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105 *Stanley Vincent Smith b:17/4/1925 Coll 1947-50
This might help people

Stanley is the brother of Ron Smith. Collingwoodforever list him as Ron A Smith and a search of the DVA Rolls find Ronald Albert Smith born 1917. Vic BDM have released the 1917 births and the ONLY Ronald A Smith is indeed Ronald Albert

But there are 2 registrations .

Event registration number 9719 Registration year 1917 Personal information Family name RUSSELL-SMITH Given names Ronald Albt
Father's name Hy Mother's name Lottie (Owens) Place of birth BWK E

Event registration number 9719 Registration year 1917 Personal information Family name SMITH Given names Ronald Albt Russell
Father's name Hy Mother's name Lottie (Owens) Place of birth BWK E

Given the Reg number is the same I think there might be a transcription error and Russell may be a middle name. But using the parents name we may now be able to find him

Lottie died in 1979. Henry died in 1974 and is buried with Lottie as Harry Russell Smith
 

ThePope

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This might help people

Stanley is the brother of Ron Smith. Collingwoodforever list him as Ron A Smith and a search of the DVA Rolls find Ronald Albert Smith born 1917. Vic BDM have released the 1917 births and the ONLY Ronald A Smith is indeed Ronald Albert
Could Stan still be alive? Collingwood Forever published this article about the Smiths in 2016, and refers to an interview he did 60 years after he played - ie 2007.

Might be worth a call to Collingwood to find out if they know. He'd be 93 if he is still alive.
 

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Snidely Whiplash

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Could Stan still be alive? Collingwood Forever published this article about the Smiths in 2016, and refers to an interview he did 60 years after he played - ie 2007.

Might be worth a call to Collingwood to find out if they know. He'd be 93 if he is still alive.
Our Archives and Past Player records still have Stan as being alive. I will follow up in person.

On SM-T380 using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

GreyCrow

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88 *George Henry Prismall b:10/3/1915 Ess 1935
Ancestry.co.uk are having a free easter weekend (UK and Irish records only)

I found a George Henry Prismall living in Templeton Place Earls Court 1947/48. This is after the last sightings of him going into the USA in 1943/44

It remains to be seen if it is the same one
 

the croucher

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Ancestry.co.uk are having a free easter weekend (UK and Irish records only)

I found a George Henry Prismall living in Templeton Place Earls Court 1947/48. This is after the last sightings of him going into the USA in 1943/44

It remains to be seen if it is the same one
Yes, good find. Highly likely to be him, especially with Earls Court being known as an area of London where Aussies tended to congregate.
Tried a few different approaches via various records on Ancestry but no ref to him anywhere after that 1947 & 1948 London electoral roll set.

No post-WW2 hits on Trove, nor any in The Age via newspapers.com

Mystery ! Approaching the time I think where we have to consider an entry in italics "probably dead."
 

ThePope

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Not a league player, but a Hall of Fame umpire. Robert Howard Scott has his DOB-DOD listed as 1901-4/8/1956 on the hall of fame website.

But his memorial plaque (https://billiongraves.com/grave/Robert-H-Scott/6775150) says he was aged 64, which puts his DOB around 1892, not 1901.

Death and funeral notice here and story here make it clear it's the same guy.

From the death notice, I've found his marriage in 1919 to
1919 2758 Scott Robert Howard Armitage Gladys Emily
But I can't find a marriage notice in Trove, nor any birth notice or Victorian record that matches exactly. Any ideas?

This article, from 1936, refers to him retiring the previous year after 20 years of umpiring, starting when he was 20, so that puts his DOB to 1895. Doesn't refer to him moving from another state either.

In the Vic birth records, there are 7 Robert Scotts born in that year range, without a middle name (thinking maybe the Howard was added later).

1891, 6205, M, Scott, Robert, James, Yuille Phoebe, Raywood
1892, 31204, M, Scott, Robert, William, Smith Julia Augusta, Chiltern
1893, 15073, M, Scott, Robert, Robert, Arnold Annie, Melt
1895, 5839, M, Scott, Robert, Henry, Durham Clara, Natimuk
1897, 15801, M, Scott, Robert, Andrew, Milroy Rosina, Alexandra
1899, 25051, M, Scott, Robert, William, Ludwick Margaret, Carlton W Hosp
1901, 1584, M, Scott, Robert, , Scott Edith, Carlton W Hosp

Possibly more for the inaccuracies thread, but he claims in that 1936 article that he umpired 214 games (and seems to have kept very detailed records) not the 157 that the AFL state, and from about 1915, not 1921.
 
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35Daicos

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Not a league player, but a Hall of Fame umpire. Robert Howard Scott has his DOB-DOD listed as 1901-4/8/1956 on the hall of fame website.

But his memorial plaque (https://billiongraves.com/grave/Robert-H-Scott/6775150) says he was aged 64, which puts his DOB around 1892, not 1901.

Death and funeral notice here and story here make it clear it's the same guy.

From the death notice, I've found his marriage in 1919 to
1919 2758 Scott Robert Howard Armitage Gladys Emily
But I can't find a marriage notice in Trove, nor any birth notice or Victorian record that matches exactly. Any ideas?

This article, from 1936, refers to him retiring the previous year after 20 years of umpiring, starting when he was 20, so that puts his DOB to 1895. Doesn't refer to him moving from another state either.

In the Vic birth records, there are 7 Robert Scotts born in that year range, without a middle name (thinking maybe the Howard was added later).

1891, 6205, M, Scott, Robert, James, Yuille Phoebe, Raywood
1892, 31204, M, Scott, Robert, William, Smith Julia Augusta, Chiltern
1893, 15073, M, Scott, Robert, Robert, Arnold Annie, Melt
1895, 5839, M, Scott, Robert, Henry, Durham Clara, Natimuk
1897, 15801, M, Scott, Robert, Andrew, Milroy Rosina, Alexandra
1899, 25051, M, Scott, Robert, William, Ludwick Margaret, Carlton W Hosp
1901, 1584, M, Scott, Robert, , Scott Edith, Carlton W Hosp

Possibly more for the inaccuracies thread, but he claims in that 1936 article that he umpired 214 games (and seems to have kept very detailed records) not the 157 that the AFL state, and from about 1915, not 1921.
His death reg. (pretty sure this would be his) has him aged 63 when he died, also suggesting he was born around 1893:
1557857961741.png

It's very annoying that the names of the parents aren't given!

Looking at the article from 1936, it says he had his first VFL game as a field umpire at age 20, but he applied to the League to be an umpire when aged just 15 (that would be meant to be in c. 1916), was turned down, then umpired at a lower level for a few years until he got a job as a boundary umpire with the VFL when he was 19. In a couple of spots the article says that by 1929 he had been umpiring for 13 years, so that obviously matches up with a starting point of 1916. As he is meant to have been 15 then that also matches up with a birth year of 1901.

He did say he was 20 when he did his first League match (as a field umpire) and that was this South Melbourne vs. Fitzroy game in 1921: https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1921/061619210702.html
1557864592825.png

So it does seem clear that the age on his memorial plaque and that given to Vic. BDM were out by quite a few years.

I presume his (claimed) tally of 214 games in the League does at least include games where he was a boundary umpire. Interestingly, AFL Tables has him on 156 games as opposed to the AFL's tally of 157 games.
 
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ThePope

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I presume his (claimed) tally of 214 games in the League does at least include games where he was a boundary umpire. Interestingly, AFL Tables has him on 156 games as opposed to the AFL's tally of 157 games.
That makes sense.

Annoying in his recollections about the weather etc in his opening game he didn't mention who won or kicked a bag to help confirm which year it happened in. I found a 1918 game in trove umpired by Norden that listed a Scott as the boundary ump. Didn't check the weather report though!
 

the croucher

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That makes sense.

Annoying in his recollections about the weather etc in his opening game he didn't mention who won or kicked a bag to help confirm which year it happened in. I found a 1918 game in trove umpired by Norden that listed a Scott as the boundary ump. Didn't check the weather report though!
The Climate Data online website shows that in 1918 at the Melbourne Regional Office the amount of rainfall recorded
between 9am Satuday 29 June and 9am Sunday 30th was 11.7mm.
http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/cdio/weatherData/av?p_nccObsCode=136&p_display_type=dailyDataFile&p_startYear=1918&p_c=-1481672500&p_stn_num=086071
 

35Daicos

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That makes sense.

Annoying in his recollections about the weather etc in his opening game he didn't mention who won or kicked a bag to help confirm which year it happened in. I found a 1918 game in trove umpired by Norden that listed a Scott as the boundary ump. Didn't check the weather report though!
Scott does seem to have had his "wires crossed" when he claimed (in the 1936 article) to have been 19 when he did his first VFL game as a boundary umpire. He should have only been about 17, as that game is meant to have taken place in 1918. He says he got his first VFL field umpire game "After one season on the boundary" so that should refer to 1920 (for making his boundary umpire debut), but that doesn't look like it's correct.

This article seems to have it right (except it was a rd. 8 1918 game when he debuted as a boundary umpire): "Undeterred, Scott continued to umpire in the Banks, Churches and Trades competitions and when he applied again in 1918 he was accepted onto the VFL list of umpires. After some country appointments he debuted in the VFL, as a boundary umpire, at the round 9 Fitzroy versus St.Kilda match.

Reports of the fixture indicate that it rained heavily throughout the match. So heavy, in fact, that one of the wags in the crowd offered field umpire Arthur Norden an umbrella as he walked onto the ground. Perhaps it was the same barracker who, noting Scott's diminutive size, called out loudly, "Blimey, Bill Duncan's 'aving a day orf from the races."*

Two further matches on the boundary in season 1918 and two more the following season sandwiched between country appointments as field umpire and Scott was slowly building experience. He had the opportunity to view the work of Norden and Jack Elder at close hand and he certainly became familiar with the 'Roys as they were involved in four of his five VFL matches. By 1920 the boundary was forgotten as Scott spent the entire season in the country competitions and was appointed to some minor finals.

The country apprenticeship taught Scott many lessons as well as providing a wealth of memories and at the conclusion of his career he said, "It is an apprenticeship that is invaluable to the men who eventually break through to do League games in Melbourne."

On Saturday 2 July 1921 Robert H. Scott, aged 20, made the biggest breakthrough of his career. He was appointed to his first senior VFL match as a field umpire - South Melbourne hosted Fitzroy at the Lake Oval."

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1918/061519180629.html
1557900225731.png
 
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the croucher

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<snip> still to be found
111 *Lionel Charles Upton b:3/10/1924 NthMelb 1948 alive Aug 2017
<snip>
Looks like one of our "names" slipped through the net back in February. Found thanks to entry on the Ryerson Index.

Lionel Charles Upton listed in the Herald Sun on 25 Feb 2019
“Passed away peacefully on Thursday, February 21, aged 94 years.
Dearly beloved husband of Jean (dec)….”

in 1949 electoral roll for seat of Melbourne in sub-district of Newmarket
there is a Lionel Charles Upton with address of 4 Chatham Street, fitter
and at same address Jean Beattie Upton, home duties.

Vic BDMs have a marriage in 1947 for them [her maiden name Soutter] #4843/1947
 

killer

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WhiteHartLane23

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Not a league player, but a Hall of Fame umpire. Robert Howard Scott has his DOB-DOD listed as 1901-4/8/1956 on the hall of fame website.

But his memorial plaque (https://billiongraves.com/grave/Robert-H-Scott/6775150) says he was aged 64, which puts his DOB around 1892, not 1901.

Death and funeral notice here and story here make it clear it's the same guy.

From the death notice, I've found his marriage in 1919 to
1919 2758 Scott Robert Howard Armitage Gladys Emily
But I can't find a marriage notice in Trove, nor any birth notice or Victorian record that matches exactly. Any ideas?
There is a WWII roll record http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?ServiceId=R&VeteranId=1062826 for a Robert Howard Scott born
20 Mar 1893 which might be a decent candidate - does not list place of birth / enlistment (so could be completely unrelated as well)
 

GreyCrow

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Updated 19 May 2019

6 *Desmond 'Des' Clyde Bell b:23/5/1923 Melb 1946-1948 alive in 2016
7 *Ronald "Ron" Arthur Bickley b:21/10/1926 Fitz 1949-1951 alive #post 561 April 2 2018
13 *Alfred Joseph Callick b:14/8/1925 SthMelb 1943,1946-1950 alive in 2016
32 *Harry Leslie "Les" Gardner b:30/9/1923 StK 1947 alive 2014
36 *Gordon Stanley Green b:31/5/1925 NthMelb 1942 alive in 2017
68 *James "Jim" Malone b:13/11/1925 NthMelb 1945-52 still living as of March 29 2018


11 Henry "Harry" John Brown b:16/10/1903 St Kilda 1927
12 Samuel Otto John Buck b:15/11/1876 Carlton 1897
18 Jack Louis Cliff b:23/5/1919 StK 1940-42
21 Eugene Francis "Frank" Corby b:24/12/1924 Coll:1948
22 Frederick "Fred" Rowland Coulsell b:17/12/1905 Nth:1927,Ess 1931
23 Robert "Bobby" Ritchie Craig b:29/3/1882 Melb 1902
33 James "Jimmy" Gaynor b:17/5/1877 Carl 1904
34 Maxwell "Max" Herbert Glass b:2/10/1925 Sth 1945
39 Roger"Bill" Musgrove Hearn b:4/3/1914 Rich 1935
40 Edward "Ted" Page Heffernan b:16/5/1869 Carl 1897
49 Charles "Charlie" Herbert Jenkins b:17/6/1878 Fitz 1898
52 *Geoffrey John Kerr b:7/4/1925 Stk 1945;1947
53 *James "Jim" Francis Kirby b:21/12/1922 NthM 1946
54 Edmund Kirwin b:31/3/1876 StKilda 1898
59 William "Billy" Francis Roy Leahy b:7/3/1911 Foots 1934-1936
60 Thomas "Tom" Francis Lee b:11/12/1874 Coll 1897-98
63 George Lockwood b:6/12/1872 Geel 1899-1901,Coll 1902-04
71 John "Joe" Albert Marchant b:11/9/1884 StKilda 1904
72 Joseph "Joe" Thomas Marr b:9/08/1880 Carlton1900-02, Ess:1903 Died Prior 1918
74 Charlie McCartney b:26/2/1874 SthMelb 1897,Ess 1899
75 *James "Jim" Kenneth McDonald b:24/6/1916 Melb 1942
76 Patrick "Paddy" John McDonald b:27/3/1897 Ess 1918-19
78 John "Jack" James McKenzie b:19/8/1908 Ess 1929
84 Alfred "Alf" Carl Frank Neeson b:15/6/1914 Fitz 1935-36, Haw 1936-38
87 Michael "Mick" Joseph O'Hagan b:22/1/1878 StK 1897
88 *George Henry Prismall b:10/3/1915 Ess 1935
89 *Robert "Bob" Reid b:8/6/1924 Footscray 1948-49
90 Samuel "Sam" Alexander Reid b:17/6/1872 Carlton 1897
94 Archibald Robinson b:9/7/1890 Richmond 1911
95 Raymond Paul Ross b:2/5/1900 Ess 1921
97 Alan James "Ginger" Ryan b:26/9/1909 Melb 1932-33,Coll 1934-38
103 James "Jim" William Smith b:11/2/1887 Sth 1906
105 *Stanley Vincent Smith b:17/4/1925 Coll 1947-50
110 James "Jim" Scott Sutherland b:10/5/1900 Sth 1924
116 *Albert "Alby" Joseph Williams b:3/8/1916 NthMelb 1943
117 William "Billy" Francis Williams b:2/5/1888 StKilda 1907
118 William "Bill" Henry Woods b:21/8/1890 Geelong 1909

I think it helps to have them separated and also on the last page ( for now)

Waiting for confirmation but likely solved
83 James "Jim" Reginald Morton b:25/10/1905 Nth 1927 As Joseph
99 John "Johnny" Patrick Ryan b:18/9/1938 Rich 1959 likely still alive
47 *Albert "Bert" Thomas James b:5/6/1923 Rich 1947 #597 confirmation needed

111 *Lionel Charles Upton b:3/10/1924 NthMelb 1948 Feb 2019 Herald Sun notice
 

WhiteHartLane23

Team Captain
Jul 26, 2014
323
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Hawthorn
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Tottenham Hotspur
There is a WWII roll record http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?ServiceId=R&VeteranId=1062826 for a Robert Howard Scott born
20 Mar 1893 which might be a decent candidate - does not list place of birth / enlistment (so could be completely unrelated as well)
Also, the umpire Robert Howard Scott (who married Gladys Emily) lived in Albert Park until 1937 and then appears in Armadale. He first appears in electoral rolls in 1913 (based on match of name/occupation) so a birth date of 1901 seems improbable and approx 1893 more likely. He seemingly "overstates" his youth in his re-telling of his story in later years.
 

RedmanWasHere

Rarely in kitchens at parties.
Aug 23, 2010
15,401
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Having a little look at Otto Buck, could he have died in Papua New Guinea?

Edit: Found out a daughter died in PNG but maybe not Otto.

Ryerson has given me nothing.
 
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