Mojo's Moronic Draft Thread

[mojo31]

Re: Another moronic draft thread

Great read Mojo....

Wayde Mills - what do you think of him?

I've never seen him play, but here's what I've gleaned from numerous sources...
-Good Size at ~195cm
-All Aus as an U18
-Shows good leadership
-Shows good dedication (living in a caravan etc) to getting the best out of himself
-Tested well for speed, and exceptionally for endurance and leap at draft camp
-One of the most consistent contested marks in the draft.
-Somewhat ordinary kick

To me (who knows nothing) this sounds like a very appealing package (particularly if you can fix the kicking). How do you rate him? And what have I missed that sees him behind as many as 10 or 15 KP prospects according to "popular opinion"

Cheers.

Good post. Exactly the sort of question you should be asking. Here is my written profile on him I have just written before I answer that bspecifically.

Wayde Mills

CHB

195cm Qld boy. A bit of a smoky who has shot up in peoples estimation due to improved form and exceptional draft camp results.

His endurance testing was AFL midfielder quality with a 14.3 beep test and top 3 in the 3km run. Also has spring to go with his height.

So he is tall and an athlete but can he play?

Well he shows some good signs. Saw him a few times really show good speed and take a bounce but run himself into trouble. Either panic a little and kick it in hope or just run to far and all the leading players were out of position when he finally disposed of it.
I have seen him play a really good man on man game and close check and really hold his own. Other times he has been pushed off the ball and been caught zoning off or be to attacking.

I just think he lacks polish at the moment. Broke through to play seniors in Qld and had a good carnival. Has great athletic tools and has shown football ability. But I think you are getting an athletic package of running, rugby background who has real size. What clubs do with it and how he develops is hard to know.
Will play tight at times and is prepared to give some attacking rebound from down back. However he does not always get the mix right and can try and do too much and get caught out. It has nothing to do with a lack of toughness or courage. Just an athlete who is not quite a footballer yet. Can do all the things required of a KPP back but like I have said sometimes just does not position himself in the best position or choose the right option of when to attack and run off and when to play tight.

I have him inside my top 30. If his kicking improves he will be a steal. Would love to see him on the wing and even up forward with his athletic ability. The kicking is the thing that is holding him back. It does not look to good and does not hit the target often enough.

A bit of a risk but the team who drafts him is getting a real tryer who has done everything he can to make it into AFL. Obviously works hard on his fitness and has the work ethic to make the most of himself. Is an athlet who is turning himself into a footballer. Bit of a draft camp special who has come from nowhere to be a top 30 type.

I have him behind Lucy and Bower and about equal with Spangher and a few other talls.

Could be a complete bust at AFL level with his kicking and lack of a bit of football smarts but is worth the risk for a late 2nd round pick.

 

[mojo31]

Re: Another moronic draft thread

Great read Mojo....

Wayde Mills - what do you think of him?

I've never seen him play, but here's what I've gleaned from numerous sources...
-Good Size at ~195cm
-All Aus as an U18
-Shows good leadership
-Shows good dedication (living in a caravan etc) to getting the best out of himself
-Tested well for speed, and exceptionally for endurance and leap at draft camp
-One of the most consistent contested marks in the draft.
-Somewhat ordinary kick

To me (who knows nothing) this sounds like a very appealing package (particularly if you can fix the kicking). How do you rate him? And what have I missed that sees him behind as many as 10 or 15 KP prospects according to "popular opinion"

Cheers.

I think why he is rated behind a number of others is the fact he is playing in QLD and the standard is a bit lower. Did okay in the carnival and was named on the bench for the AA team but was very lucky to make it (Drum should have been in a long way before him).
His kicking looks bad and is not very effective. His football smarts are not there at the moment. I realise people can say that he can be moulded but footy smarts are a bit like you either have them or you dont.
Kicking skills are also very hard to improve by a lot. You can turn a poor kick into an average one but that is usually about the extent of it.

With Mills athleticism he could play wing or up forward but the kicking will let him down.

I would see him as a 25 to 30 pick in this draft.

I dont think he coan take a good contested mark at this stage because if he could he would be playing forward. He uses his body well at times and at other times he is a bit lost. Like I keep saying an athletic pacjkage who will need to be taught the football smarts of where to position himself and his decision making.

 

[mojo31]

Re: Another moronic draft thread

Matt White please Mojo31.

I've heard him rated as highly as top 30 or even top 20 earlier this year.

Matt White

Small midfielder. 178cms and 74 kgs. Top aged and unlikely to grow more. Was not invited to draft camp and got a state screening instead. This indicates that he is not on a lot of clubs radars at the moment.
Tested at 2.93 for the 20m sprint and shows very good pace. He does use it in his games and take players on. The kicking is not as good as it should be for his size and hurts his ability to be a rover in the AFL. Has the endurance and the ability to win contested ball even with his small size. Will tackle and block and remember that about him. Then remember him butchering some of his kicks in the same game.

Has not had a full season in the TAC this year and been injured a number of times.

I would look very strongly at him for a rookie pick. Small but quick. Top aged and injury prone and not worth pick 36 in my opinion. His kicking which at his size should be better.

 

[bmaurizio]

Mojo, great work could you please give some extra info on Markovic and Minson.
Either could be good valve at pick 36. Thanks
Ciao

 

[mojo31]

Re: Another moronic draft thread

What about Douglas? Footyman seems in love with him. What do you think?

Yes Douglas is a bit of a favourite of Weaver and Footyman.

I have him a bit lower than them at this stage.


Richard Douglas

Midfielder

Small at 180cms and 68 kgs. Top aged as well and will be 19 in Feb.
So we are looking at a player with a very small build who needs another 10kgs to match it in the AFL in the clinches.

As an example when we took Kade Simpson at pick 45 in 2002 he was touted as a 1st rounder. But his very light frame put off other clubs. When we drafted him he was 68 kgs and after 3 huge pre seaons he has put on 8 kgs. Stll needs another 5 and hopefully he can but there are no guarantees that a player can.
Fiora never was able to put on weight.

So thats the downside to him becoming an AFL midfielder.

Plenty of upside though.

For starters he tested well at draft camp and has good pace and endurance and agility. He is a lovely kick of the ball. Like his decision making and ability to read the game.
Really good overhead for his size and a possible forward pocket at AFL level with that ability to play tall and to also read the flight of the ball earlier tham most and be in the right position. Football smarts (lacking in Mills but plenty in Douglas).
Has a little bit of 'freak' about him and really on talent is in the top 10 in this draft.

No weaknesses in his game that stand out. I would say he is very similar to Marc Murphy in his ability to play inside and out and tackle and read the game. Just does not do it as well or have the leadership and toughness of Murphy. Watching Murphy carry a leg injury into his last few TAC games at the end of the year and still play well and lead his team when 50% fit shows what sort of bloke we are getting with pick 1.
Douglas is not soft at all just in comparision to Marc.
Size wise also it shows how skinny he is
180 and 68 compared to Marc 179.4 and 74.4 kgs and Marc is hardly what you would call built at this stage but it still 6 kgs heavier and younger.

So if his body puts on the muscle needed he is a top 10 pick. If not he is nowhere near it. I have erred on the side of caution and have him outside the top 20 with his 180cm height as well.

 

[Salaryman]

Mojo,

what's your view on Toovey?

A few things about his profile stood out for me.........perhaps not KPP height but a tallish back flanker with v.good speed (esp. closing speed) a good tackler, a good footy brain and apparently very coachable.....I assume he will be gone by #36, (most prob to Freo) but if he slipped through he sounds like he could develop to be a solid defender for us?

Do you have any ideas why he was not taken last year (i.e. any obvious flaws like Swallow's kicking is for him)

Cheers

 

[Effes]

Spangher = Clint Bizzell in my view.....has the height but like Bizzell I don't think he can do well on the big key forwards. Would rather Lucy/Mills/Bower. Unfortunately Bower will probably be gone by pick 20.

 

[mojo31]

Re: Another moronic draft thread

Mojo how do you rate ainger and sprangher in your opinion which Kp defender is most likely to be the full back/ CHB we are crying out for out of all teh KPP in the draft

I liked Spangher but he has had oestitus pubis (OP) after the carnival and hardly played. Also tested very badly at draft camp with it.
He is also top aged and very skinny.

192.9cms and 83.3 kgs. Looks reasonable quick in games I have seen and at the U18 Champs. Where he looked like the ideal rebounding, attacking CHB who ran his CHF out of position and set up play. Backed himself in and showed real flair.
Without giving away his draft camp results as they are not published (aprat from top 10) he tested very badly and when I tried to find then in his pre season as well they were also really poor.
He did do a good 3km run at draft camp and has decent undurance even with not being able to train much.

I would worry about his pace on the lead being shown up. His kicking is also not great.
So hard to know where to place him. Top 15 after Championships and now maybe struggling to make top 30.


As far as the best defender in the draft it is easily Marcus Drum.
Does not fit the rpofile at 190cms and skinny but has played on the best forwards in the TAC and U18 Championships for the last 2 years and beaten nearly all of them. That includes Franklin,Dowler, Kennedy and Clark.
Uses his body so well and even takes contested marks down back. Positions himslef and reads the play and has good skills when rebounding.
May not make it at AFL level as a KPP back but looking at who the best backmen are these days

Clement 190cms
Mal Michael 190cms
Maguire 190cms
Hudgton 191cms
Scarlett 191cms (listed taller who looks wrong)

I realise we have been burnt with Massie, Vance and Livo but there height which was in between size was a little bit of a problem. It was the fact that they did not read the ball, were not strong enough at the contest. Did not use the ball well going forward or keep there head under pressure and a number of other things.
Livo has the strength to compete and a few more cms would help him but it is his slowness to read the flight of the ball and his positioniong which hurts him the most. Cant really move him with his poor kicking skills either.

So yes its great to have KPP players at 195cms and 100kgs but in reality it is there abilty to use there size and play the game that counts far more than having the right profile.

 

[mojo31]

Spangher = Clint Bizzell in my view.....has the height but like Bizzell I don't think he can do well on the big key forwards. Would rather Lucy/Mills/Bower. Unfortunately Bower will probably be gone by pick 20.

Bizzell is 188cms and Spangher 192.9cms. It is a fair comparison in there ability to attack. Spangher did beat quality opponents in the U18 Championships. The question is was it where his ability sits or just a player who had a good carnival and played as well as he can. No form in the TAC after it to know with his injury.

 

[Effes]

In the first game where he played so well it looked like he had no real opponent half the time - Warnock had dropped back in front of Clark so Spangher could really do what he liked.

 

[mojo31]

In the first game where he played so well it looked like he had no real opponent half the time - Warnock had dropped back in front of Clark so Spangher could really do what he liked.

Yes I watched that game again recently on tape and liked his ability to attack and create (Chad Cornes style). Have seen him defend well 1 on 1 also. But got a few question marks on him. Would take him at 36 if they feel his OP (which was suppose to be minor but looks more serious) is managable for the future.

 

[muscy]

Mojo31 - Love your work, much appreciated.

Just a quick question for you. You seem to have a very high opinion of Drum. Do you think using Pick 4 on him would be too high, taking into consideration he may never be KPP?

Thanks,

Muscy

 

[mojo31]

Mojo, great work could you please give some extra info on Markovic and Minson.
Either could be good valve at pick 36. Thanks
Ciao

Thanks mate.

Hugh Minson is a South Australian player. Brother of Will Mison at the Western Bulldogs.

Listed at 202cms and 88kgs. 20m sprint time of 3.08 is very good for that size.

I have not seen him play but have spoken to a SA person about him who has. Says he is very aggressive (like his brother) and has some ruck skills and works hard around the ground. Is as raw as but has the attitude and work ethic to succeed.

The question is do we want another ruckman at the club with having Deluca, Bryan , McLaren and French to go with 2 rookies in Aisake and Batson.

Aisake I see as a long term replacement for French with the others as backups. Getting Dempsey down to the club should accelerate the process but anyone who has seen Aisake this year already at training can see that he is taller (over 2m now) and is filling out. Still skinny but at least 10kgs heavier in just over 1 year he has been here and his movement and kicking is very impressive.
Has some ruck skills and is doing session after session with Dempsey.

 

[mojo31]

Mojo31 - Love your work, much appreciated.

Just a quick question for you. You seem to have a very high opinion of Drum. Do you think using Pick 4 on him would be too high, taking into consideration he may never be KPP?

Thanks,

Muscy

Yes mate I have a really high opinion of him.

Most professional and dedicated player in the draft. Not as tall or quick or high leaping or kick the ball 60m but is a very good footballer. I would not take him at 4 but would not be unhappy with the decision.
In my list of the top 20 I have him at 8.

I will be changing that list a little and updating the profiles and anything I have written today when I have time. So go back and read if you are interested.

In answer to Drum at 4. Yes Carlton have had a very hard look at him and rate him highly and were considering it 2 months ago.
I dont think he will be taken there now by us.

This was back when I believe we had Mitch Clark as number 1 and Murphy not as our first pick. Clark had a poor carnival but still Hughes had him the top pick. However his form in the WAFL was poor and therefore more weighting was put into his poor carnival.
Ryder and Kennedy puished up into the seniors for East Freo and Clark was left to play U19s and did not do much.

At the start of the year Clark was playing seniors and Kennedy U19s and Ryder some Reserves and U19s only for that order to swap by the end of the year and bad reports from his coach about his attitude.

Now we have Murphy at 1 (clearly also) I dont think we will be taking Drum at 4.

 

[mojo31]

Mojo, great work could you please give some extra info on Markovic and Minson.
Either could be good valve at pick 36. Thanks
Ciao

I will write up Markovic and Toovey and then have a break and do some work

 

[Silvagnis]

It's a relief that we may not take Clarke at one with his attitude.

But are we seriously thinking about drafting Dowler instead of Ryder, Kennedy and Hurn?

There's nothing wrong with drafting a CHF like Dowler who has an impressive build for a 17 year old and athleticism.But drafting Hurn could be more beneficial with his leadership and the potential to pinch hit in the midfield, backline and forwardline.

 

[mojo31]

Mojo,

what's your view on Toovey?

A few things about his profile stood out for me.........perhaps not KPP height but a tallish back flanker with v.good speed (esp. closing speed) a good tackler, a good footy brain and apparently very coachable.....I assume he will be gone by #36, (most prob to Freo) but if he slipped through he sounds like he could develop to be a solid defender for us?

Do you have any ideas why he was not taken last year (i.e. any obvious flaws like Swallow's kicking is for him)

Cheers

Alan Toovey.

HBF

Like you say Gilly he was eligible for the draft last year and yet was not taken even though he had a decent year and went to draft camp.
Plays full back but at 188cms he will not be able to do that at AFL level.

Tested very well at draft camp with a 2.94 20m sprint and good beep test.
Western Australian player who plays for Claremont and broke through for senior selection at the end of the year. Pretty light player but does not stop him attacking the contest and playing tight.
Lacks flair and skill with the ball. Dependable kick but nothing great. Will be a stopper type in the AFL (Kellaway style) who can play on the third tall and play tight and follow team instructions.
Ideal replacement for David Teague long term if we are able to get more creativity back there as well ro set up our play.

Anyone who saw the U18 Champs would have seen Beau Dowler carve him up and make him look slow and very ordinairy.

But he is a team player who when outmatched for size and strength competes very well and will not drop his head. Does all the defensive skills well but with clubs wanting the modern defender to be creative and show flair he just does not fit the profile.
Would take him at 36 if Mills was not available.

In answer to why he was overlooked then I believe it was a mistake. Just like Swallow was and Betts going in the PSD and Pearce (draft camp special from Port) going as a rookie.

It happens and is easy to see the following year when we are all experts.

These sort of players who dont quite fit the profile seem to always get overlooked.

 

[Effes]

If Douglas/Higgins/Lucy were available with pick 20, who should we pick?

 

[mojo31]

Lukas Markovic

Eastern Ranges captain who plays forward (and just about everywhere else) and capable of taking a strong marks and kicking goals.
Injured his ankle when going for a mark. Played in the ruck (first time I saw him) and also seen him play up forward and down back.
He is not listed at all on Footydraft which is a surprise. Would think he would be a candidate for pick 36 or a rookie listing at least.

I don’t see him as becoming a gun but a good role player who is versatile and should develop nicely.

I will fill this one out and the others later today or tomorrow. Just a bit rushed and getting a numbers of pms as well.

 

[mojo31]

If Douglas/Higgins/Lucy were available with pick 20, who should we pick?

Lucy just slightly in front of Douglas and then Higgins in my opinion.

Lucy has more scope to improve physically and as a KPP size would be expected to take longer. Is more of a risk but worth it. As far as what we need then Lucy is just what we need at CHB with real size. Have to watch his body shape as he gets older (like Hartlett) as he is big and quick when he is up and going but not as agile as he needs to be. Could really bulk up and get turned around to easily. Thats why I would prefer him at CHB rather than FB.

Douglas is a bit small and a risk that he may never bulk up enough. We have Betts and Blackwell who are also small and are taking Marc Murphy who is similar to Douglas (but better and 7 kgs heavier and younger).

 

[Effes]

Is Hartlett more of a forward than a back?

 

[missionpossible]

This is great stuff mojo, I didn't realise you were into the draft to this extent.

Just wondering if there are any wild cards that you really rate that everyone else discards as a fringe pick at best. Personally I have Markovic and Nicholls highly rated but public opinion says I am way out on them (time will tell).

 

[Silvagnis]

Neither did I Missionpossible and we could have nominated Mojo31 for your phantom draft and he would have done as good a job as 79V.

Missionpossible, If Hurn, Dowler, Ryder and Kennedy were all available at four, who would you pick based on footballing talent?

 

[mojo31]

Is Hartlett more of a forward than a back?

Tends to fly for his marks when down back and looks more as a natural forward but can get lost when forward and back and watch the ball instead of leading for it or watching his opponent depending on where he is.
Great kick and a very good size but his body seems to be injury prone and was a question mark on him before getting drafted over it and has shown last year to be a worry.

Just needs to stay on the park and string together 10 or so games and show what he has.

Watched him play on Jurica (former AFL player)last year who has giving everyone a touch up. He is a massive player and Hartlett went onto him and did the job. Very impressed with that and how he handled him in the 1 on 1's.
Has the size and skills to play either position but has a bit of an attitude and not the easiest to coach.

We need him in key position down back and feel they will try him there in the VFL next year and see how he goes.

 

[mojo31]

This is great stuff mojo, I didn't realise you were into the draft to this extent.

Just wondering if there are any wild cards that you really rate that everyone else discards as a fringe pick at best. Personally I have Markovic and Nicholls highly rated but public opinion says I am way out on them (time will tell).

Cheers Mission.

Have just posted on the Carlton board to liven things up around here. Not to much on the draft board.

Seems to be a rule in numbers approach on the draft board. Where if anyone disagrees with "popular" opinion then they get ridiculed.
People seem to deal in absolutes on there when it is not that black and white.

LukeHodge who has a slightly different opinion gets hammered and the clones seem to just copy there opinion from a few. Does not really seem to encourage a lot of discussion and debate.

Might tidy up my threads and profiles and post it over there later on. Not sure.

In answer to you I also feel that Markovic should be looked at. I did not realise he is not even listed on Footydraft until now and I am surprsied by that. Have a few dark horses and will put up some information on them also tomorrow perhaps.