Neil Craig - Last Year

[jenny61_99]

Those of us in the anti-Craig camp probably feel similar to you in that it is an all-inclusive term. Like yourself, we probably consider ourselves a bit more discerning than that and also that there are times when we akcnowledge/praise what is being done well.

I was a huge Craig fan early. When he had his own system and didn't listen to anyone... that was brilliant. No moves, no changes, back your system and your structure in 100% at all times and don't change for anyone. Fantastic stuff, and it worked a treat. Also copped a fair whack of criticism for his methods too during this time, despite our results. The thinking was that we finished top two/preliminary finals with a coach who was doing the wrong thing on match day, just imagine how good we could be with a coach who made lots of moves...

Neil listened to the criticism (much of it from within the club and coaches box) and has changed his ways. Now we have an odd mix of the Craig Stability Method and the What Other People Think You Should Do Method. And it doesn't work. Since he has bent his own philosophies my rating of him as a coach has cooled off.

Now I believe that it is time for him to move on. Six seasons is enough to show what you have got, it's time someone else had an opportunity. I also believe that we're entering a new phase with all our old players retiring. The 2011 season is the start of a crucial 3 year period in our club history where we need to identify our next generation of champion players, club legends and leaders. The fact that our coach is out of synch with this timeline and has one year left on his contract where he has to prove himself is very wrong IMO and will have negative consequences for us.

Next year we should finish in the bottom eight, given the players that we have lost and our drafting sins of yesteryear. The plus though is that 2011 will be an investment year where our next generation gain priceless experience and start on the pathway to become quality AFL footballers. However, Neil needs a finals appearance to get another contract you would think. The goals of our coach and the goals of our club are incongruous. I worry that Neil will try to squeeze every last drop out of our squad next season to fall into the finals instead of using 2011 as a building block towards a 2012/13 campaign.

Thanks Carl, for your thoughtful and measured response. It was with interest that I watched you change from a supporter to not one. I always read your posts with great interest because I always felt I learned a little bit from every one. I struggled with the vehemence of your change though, whilst appreciating your viewpoint.

I disagree with you about our chances next year but I do agree with you, he absolutely has to not only make the finals, but do well in them to warrant another contract.

 

[Crow-mo]

Is it everyone? Or just those committed to hating/loathing all things Neil Craig. I think it's the latter. Are they all "wrong"? Their opinion, their entitled to it. I've explained my stance. If they aren't prepared to accept that, I can do nothing more.

Hang on Jenny its a serious question.

you just described why you don't think you're an NC apologist; you didn't touch on why everyone else thinks you are.

heck I'll throw you a very generous bone, lets water it down to "so many" think so.

now this isn't really in much doubt, the question has to be why do you think this is the case?

 

[jenny61_99]

Why people think what they do is beyond my capability Crow-mo... I think the "so many" often judge my posts harshly simply because it's me, rather than the content. I know I make mistakes (and therefore some criticism is warranted) - but I think you'll find I acknowledge them. Although I have followed this sport for over 30 years, I know there's more I can learn - and I often do learn and reshape my opinions after vigourous debates in here. It disappoints me that others are so rigid in theirs, that they seem not to be prepared to do the same.

You seem to be of the opinion that I think Craig should be appointed as a lifetime coach (your words, not mine) - but I have consistantly said - he MUST make substantial improvements next year (not only make the finals, but compete well in them) to warrant a contract extension. It appears to me that the "so many" often over look those sorts of statements and only see the ones where I am supporting him.

 

[SydCrow]

Next year we should finish in the bottom eight, given the players that we have lost and our drafting sins of yesteryear. The plus though is that 2011 will be an investment year where our next generation gain priceless experience and start on the pathway to become quality AFL footballers. However, Neil needs a finals appearance to get another contract you would think. The goals of our coach and the goals of our club are incongruous. I worry that Neil will try to squeeze every last drop out of our squad next season to fall into the finals instead of using 2011 as a building block towards a 2012/13 campaign.

is that what the AFC board thinks or just BF? any chance the board might also understand that next year is an investment year?

on that basis, if NC plays the youngsters next year (and what other choice does he have) and we don't make the finals, does he get the sack?

 

[Crow-mo]

Why people think what they do is beyond my capability Crow-mo... I think the "so many" often judge my posts harshly simply because it's me, rather than the content. I know I make mistakes (and therefore some criticism is warranted) - but I think you'll find I acknowledge them. Although I have followed this sport for over 30 years, I know there's more I can learn - and I often do learn and reshape my opinions after vigourous debates in here. It disappoints me that others are so rigid in theirs, that they seem not to be prepared to do the same.

ok there is plenty to go on with here, but lets leave that for another day.

You seem to be of the opinion that I think Craig should be appointed as a lifetime coach (your words, not mine) - but I have consistantly said - he MUST make substantial improvements next year (not only make the finals, but compete well in them) to warrant a contract extension. It appears to me that the "so many" often over look those sorts of statements and only see the ones where I am supporting him.

what I would to say to this is 2 things:
1. this is a fairly new position
2. this is pretty much the same position as those people you accuse of hating and loathing NC.

I think he's had his day, and has shown he is a good but not great coach. as his record testifies. however, he is getting another year and my view is the same as yours. he needs to perform well in the 2011 finals, not just "make" them.

I think you skip too many details when you fly off the handle.

 

[Crow-mo]

is that what the AFC board thinks or just BF? any chance the board might also understand that next year is an investment year?

on that basis, if NC plays the youngsters next year (and what other choice does he have) and we don't make the finals, does he get the sack?

in that scenario, he gets the sack before round 22 is out.

 

[feenix67]

Now I believe that it is time for him to move on. Six seasons is enough to show what you have got...

I bet if the Pies win today, they'll be glad you're not in charge of their football department.

 

[Crow-mo]

I bet if the Pies win today, they'll be glad you're not in charge of their football department.

2002
2003
2007
2010

I think we can be glad you're not in charge of the maths curriculum for the fisher price under 7's.

 

[Wood_Duck]

This is a good point and I agree with you. Those that I named are generally the most outspoken against Craig and the Club (board/personnel) and there are more, these were just off the top of my head. I am not questioning their passion for the Club - for clearly they have that in spades - I think I did originally, but have come to see they definitely have passion. I am absolutely positive I could drag up many posts where each one of them have spoken of Craig in hugely derogatory ways.

Im going to call you on this. Post away.

 

[feenix67]

2002
2003
2007
2010

I think we can be glad you're not in charge of the maths curriculum for the fisher price under 7's.

Yep, no premiership there. Just like Neil. I thought you didn't like mediocrity? Hypocrite.

You need to read more and fap less Crow-mo. Spackler said 6 yrs is enough time to show what you're about. My point being that if Collingwood shared that opinion, MM would have been gone after 2005. 2 Prelim finals in his first 6 years...just like Neil....

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

is that what the AFC board thinks or just BF? any chance the board might also understand that next year is an investment year?

on that basis, if NC plays the youngsters next year (and what other choice does he have) and we don't make the finals, does he get the sack?

If it is what the AFC Board thinks then they should be extending his contract either now or early next season.

They can't wait and see where we finish AND understand that it is an investment year.

He's either the man to take our young players forward for the next three years or he's not.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Yep, no premiership there. Just like Neil. I thought you didn't like mediocrity? Hypocrite.

You need to read more and fap less Crow-mo. Spackler said 6 yrs is enough time to show what you're about. My point being that if Collingwood shared that opinion, MM would have been gone after 2005. 2 Prelim finals in his first 6 years...just like Neil....

What on earth are you talking about?

Did you check the results of either of those preliminary finals?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I struggled with the vehemence of your change though, whilst appreciating your viewpoint.

It was the fourth time he dropped Walker that was the clincher for me!

 

[feenix67]

What on earth are you talking about?

Did you check the results of either of those preliminary finals?

No premierships....isn't that everyone's complaint on Neil? Make up your mind mate.

 

[jenny61_99]

ok there is plenty to go on with here, but lets leave that for another day.




what I would to say to this is 2 things:
1. this is a fairly new position
2. this is pretty much the same position as those people you accuse of hating and loathing NC.

I think he's had his day, and has shown he is a good but not great coach. as his record testifies. however, he is getting another year and my view is the same as yours. he needs to perform well in the 2011 finals, not just "make" them.

I think you skip too many details when you fly off the handle.

Yep, you might be right. I see one comment (generally a personal attack on Craig/player/me) and I go off on a tangent. Think we are all guilty of that at times.

As for my comments, I guess it is reasonably new... in that I've only been saying it since about round 6? Unlike some, I have given him the benefit of the doubt this year. I am glad they've recognised the pre-season problems and are doing something about it. And I honestly hope he gets a chance to show us what these kids can really do - because I believe it will be exciting. If he were to go at some stage next year, the next coach will no doubt benefit from Craig's development of this squad.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

No premierships....isn't that everyone's complaint on Neil? Make up your mind mate.

You're a goose.

 

[Hondo]

Well, if you buy into the theory that on field results are pinned 100% on the coach then Malthouse let slip a 4 goal half time lead in a grand final!

Ouch

Note: I don't subscribe to the theory.

 

[Elite Crow]

It was the fourth time he dropped Walker that was the clincher for me!

Throw in the comments he would like to try Walker in defence and we have cause for concern. Despite the injuries it hasnt been a good year and a bit for Craig. Lets look at it:

No need to trade in 09
Kept all the oldies
Stated he expected the oldies to improve
Flogged them during the preseason
No trial match
Played Burton and Edwards for too long
Played Walker out of position early in the season
Dropped Walker to try Davis up forward on a dry Gabba deck
Had to change the game plan again, same story as 09. And some might say he didnt change the game plan, the players just werent executing it correctly. It then leads to the question why they werent listening to him?

He has had some pearlers in his coaching career as well, the Massie/Franklin match up was the worse. But also equally poor was his ascertion it was speed of ball movement and not leg speed that counts. Well what type of player is he looking for now? A quick outside midfielder.

Besides his faults, he has been a good coach but not a great one and has had enough time in charge. What worries me is we will have a good start to 11, we will re-sign him to take the pressure off and he then avoids the major round scrutiny.

 

[Crow-mo]

Yep, no premiership there. Just like Neil. I thought you didn't like mediocrity? Hypocrite.

You need to read more and fap less Crow-mo. Spackler said 6 yrs is enough time to show what you're about. My point being that if Collingwood shared that opinion, MM would have been gone after 2005. 2 Prelim finals in his first 6 years...just like Neil....

i think the dates compared against your "logic" speaks for itself.

 

[Crow-mo]

You're a goose.

on a good day.

 

[feenix67]

Geese are underrated