Neil Kerley's 22

[napsyd]

Originally posted by noddy
I would like to make that a threesome,

OK, I know I live in Sydney but...

 

[napsyd]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
They are both taggers. Successful sides play with one tagger. On current form Stenglein gets the nod easily. Stinger might be a bit slow but at least he doesn't die out after half time. Shirley can't go with strong running onballers for the entire game. He lacks concentration. If you don't agree go and watch round 20 game against Collingwood and let me know how did Shirley's opponent go in the 2nd half. It was his man that started the demise of the Crows in the 2nd half.

Once again I will say half a season doesn't make a footballer.

Harsh.

Sure, Shirley got stitched up but he wasn't the lone ranger. He is a 20 or 30 something game player who was beaten for a half by one of the Brownlow medalists (wasn't it?). Further, we have no real knowledge of who was and was not playing with the flu during that game. You have isolated one match where he had his colours lowered, yet the rest of his games he pretty much broke even or beat his opponent. We even had him in our bigfooty votes on many occasions.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Crow-mosone


what current form ???? it's preseason.




It most certainly does when it's the MOST recent half a season.

A bit of a double standard here, you're happy to annoint players yet to play a senior game but write off the last half of last season for 1 player in particular. [/B]

So what are we supposed to go on , last year's from??????

You pick your side on how the players are currently performing not on how they performed last year. On that basis Shirley doesn't deserve a game.

The youngsters that I am happy to get a game are those that are currently playing good footy. The likes of Hudson, Hentschel, Reilly and even Skipworth are playing beter footy than Shirley. And lets face it I would rather build a side down the track around those players that Robert Shirley.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by napsyd
Harsh.

Sure, Shirley got stitched up but he wasn't the lone ranger. He is a 20 or 30 something game player who was beaten for a half by one of the Brownlow medalists (wasn't it?). Further, we have no real knowledge of who was and was not playing with the flu during that game. You have isolated one match where he had his colours lowered, yet the rest of his games he pretty much broke even or beat his opponent. We even had him in our bigfooty votes on many occasions.

Maybe harsh but so many times I have seen Shirley's man get a new lease of life in 2nd half. He had 2 good stopping games last year and that was against Camporeale and Judd.

He had a very good 2nd half of the year in 2003 but he doesn't make our best side especially since we have a better tagger in Stenglein. Time will tell but all things being equal, I don't like his chances.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
You pick your side on how the players are currently performing not on how they performed last year. On that basis Shirley doesn't deserve a game.

The youngsters that I am happy to get a game are those that are currently playing good footy. The likes of Hudson, Hentschel, Reilly and even Skipworth are playing beter footy than Shirley. And lets face it I would rather build a side down the track around those players that Robert Shirley.

Sure other players have performed better than Shirley in the pre-season, but he hasn't been given fair opportunities like Bode, Skippy, Doughty, etc. Surely given Bode's crap from he should have been given more game time. hard to impress with limited opportunities!

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Sure other players have performed better than Shirley in the pre-season, but he hasn't been given fair opportunities like Bode, Skippy, Doughty, etc. Surely given Bode's crap from he should have been given more game time. hard to impress with limited opportunities!

I can't argue that Bode got more opportunities than Shirley but how can you compare Shirley to Doughty. Doughty got half a game against West Coast and took it with both hands. Shirley had a full game against St. Kilda and did nothing.

Surely the calibre of players that we are talking about here must know that when the opportunity arises he must grab them with both hands. Shirley has a habit of going up and down like a yo-yo. Didn't he play 17 games in 2001, then was crap the following year and got delisted and then redrafted only to put a solid half a season together. This year Shirley will most likely go down again. He is 23 or 24, who would you rather play, youngsters who are in the 19-21 years of age category who are probably the future of the club or RObert Shirley and honest tagger and nothing more??????

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I can't argue that Bode got more opportunities than Shirley but how can you compare Shirley to Doughty. Doughty got half a game against West Coast and took it with both hands. Shirley had a full game against St. Kilda and did nothing.

Surely the calibre of players that we are talking about here must know that when the opportunity arises he must grab them with both hands. Shirley has a habit of going up and down like a yo-yo. Didn't he play 17 games in 2001, then was crap the following year and got delisted and then redrafted only to put a solid half a season together. This year Shirley will most likely go down again. He is 23 or 24, who would you rather play, youngsters who are in the 19-21 years of age category who are probably the future of the club or RObert Shirley and honest tagger and nothing more??????

Stiffy, it is not fair to rate a player on 1 game alone. Shirley played far more good games than bad ones in 2003. Bode on the other hand played only a handfull of decent games last year & has been average so far this year. Sure Doughty was a probably a bad example, but Shirley & Ladhams have not been given fair opportunities in the pre-season IMO.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Stiffy, it is not fair to rate a player on 1 game alone. Shirley played far more good games than bad ones in 2003. Bode on the other hand played only a handfull of decent games last year & has been average so far this year. Sure Doughty was a probably a bad example, but Shirley & Ladhams have not been given fair opportunities in the pre-season IMO.

Shirley's form against Norwood was not exceptional. He was servicable but not the sort of form that guarantees a spot. Ladhams is a strange one but I did read somewhere that he did have a bit of a niggling injury.

I agree Shirley had a very good 2nd half of the year but do you think thats enough to guarantee him a spot in the 22??????

I don't.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Shirley's form against Norwood was not exceptional. He was servicable but not the sort of form that guarantees a spot. Ladhams is a strange one but I did read somewhere that he did have a bit of a niggling injury.

I agree Shirley had a very good 2nd half of the year but do you think thats enough to guarantee him a spot in the 22??????

I don't.

At the moment Shirley is probably just outside our best-22, but partly because of lack of opportunities to prove himself! However, as he is on the fringe, he should have got more opportunities as he will be needed at times. Same with Ladhams, who is believe should be in our best-22.

 

[Fergus]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Stiffy, other sides do use 2 taggers. Lions with Hart & Scott, Pies with Licuria & Holland, etc. There may be times during the year where we have one or more of our gun players out & we may need to go more defensive than usual. Shirley had far more good games than bad ones in 2003 - the same could not be said for Bode.

The difference with the above examples Kane is that they also pick up a lot of possessions themselves rather than just a negating role.
I agree Shirley did a good job last year in terms of negating his opponents but it's very hard to have 2 players like this in the same side. It puts a lot of responsibility on others for the midfield drive.

Bode is an interesting one. I think he is pretty important to our midfield rotations but on current form he is struggling to maintain his spot. We need him under the feet of the ruckman again dishing out that first clearing handball.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Shirley's form against Norwood was not exceptional.

who was he tagging again? what was his role against Norwood?

I agree Shirley had a very good 2nd half of the year but do you think thats enough to guarantee him a spot in the 22??????

I don't.

Not alone, but it counts very heavily along with his training form, and his progress against personal milestones set in the offseason by the coach. all of which weigh more heavily than than the nebulous criteria you seem to be applying.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
At the moment Shirley is probably just outside our best-22, but partly because of lack of opportunities to prove himself! However, as he is on the fringe, he should have got more opportunities as he will be needed at times. Same with Ladhams, who is believe should be in our best-22.

There are a batch of players who are questionable over whether they will or won't make the grade.
I really don't go too much on PS form because the roles and intensity is different to the real stuff.
Who gets the nod, Shirley, or Bode, or Schuback or Skippy, I guess will depend on opposition matchups as much as anything. One thing for sure none of that quartet is an automatic selection.

Heard that Ladhams was carry some weight and looked decidedly slower. Anyone any comments?

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Heard that Ladhams was carry some weight and looked decidedly slower. Anyone any comments?

Not sure about this.

I know he has really worked hard over the pre-season to get his fitness to the required levels so he can play in the midfield. I remember listening to Lads on 5AA during the pre-season and he said how he is strictly sticking to his fitness program and his diet.

I really hope you are wrong as I still consider Lads to be in the best 22.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Not sure about this.

I know he has really worked hard over the pre-season to get his fitness to the required levels so he can play in the midfield. I remember listening to Lads on 5AA during the pre-season and he said how he is strictly sticking to his fitness program and his diet.

I really hope you are wrong as I still consider Lads to be in the best 22.

Read the comment on the Footy SA site

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Read the comment on the Footy SA site

Do you have a link?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Do you have a link?

my pleasure
http://www.footysa.com/article.php?sid=676

 

[Nige_Bix]

Re Shirley

I know I have been off the scene for a while, but going back towards the end of 2003, people on this list were generally singing his praises and the media were starting to take notice of him. What has he done wrong since? Why the change of attitude - although i noticed a few other people here seem to rate him still.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Originally posted by dezzmo
Re Shirley

I know I have been off the scene for a while, but going back towards the end of 2003, people on this list were generally singing his praises and the media were starting to take notice of him. What has he done wrong since? Why the change of attitude - although i noticed a few other people here seem to rate him still.

Unfortunately nothing really. I believe too much creedence has been put into the trial game form of some players. Some of the well credentialled players have had absolute shocking trial game form - but not a word has been spoken about them. Others have been pushed up way too prematurely, perhaps to be pulled down again once the real stuff begins.
Champions are created from finals football, stars from the regular season, what has trial games done for anyones reputation?