No, it's not the senior players...

[RandB]

His fixation with "development" and "getting games into the kids" would have frustrated the sh#t out of the senior players.

There's no doubt this has been a massive factor and the longer it has gone on and the smaller the senior playing group has got, the less tenable this approach has become.


The first 3 years I supported what Bailey (and the club) was doing but to continue our narrow sighted approach in to 2011 was a bridge too far, senior players finally got jack of it and it caught up with us in the end.


IMO the psyche of the senior group has been damaged regardless of individual performances which may or may not be excusable and the level of ability that they have.

Tinkering, trialling, developing, experimenting - when does it all end and we get on with things? Bailey essentially has sent a message, I'm going to stuff around with this group and you guys carry us and make us look less bad.

Meanwhile practically every other team (which is ironically developing as well if not quicker than us) us out there optimised for success.


When a team runs across the white line, as a coach you make sure that they are prepared in the best way possible to perform against any given opposition. To do anything else saps a team of their venom and competitive nature and reduces them to a WIP that is going through the motions and embarrasing itself on the national stage.


We also lost sight of our product. Perhaps if Bailey took ownership of what was happening on the field (particularly this year and last year) and saw it as a reflection of his management things may have been different.


Dean Bailey is a very smart man. Early on in his tenure he found a way to distance himself from our poor performances. The first thing he hid behind was our process. Given our new direction this was acceptable early on.


At stages last year when we were copping beltings he stated that we need to get games into Scully and Trengove. In essence he hid behind them too and put a world of pressure on them in the process - not to mention send a message to the rest of the playing group STFU we aren't worried about you.


The third group he hid behind was the ever dwindling senior group.

Never, ever untill bloodbath Saturday did he finally twig that maybe just maybe this is a reflection on him as a coach.


There is an old adage: you get out of something that you put into it and Bailey (fairly or unfairly) was bitten on the arse.


At some point we took our eye of the ball and forgot what was important, what galvanised a team and a club - win at all costs. The biggest irony of all is that rather than helping our younger recruits, our narrow approach could have potentially damaged them. They weren't being indoctrined into an AFL club, we essentially became a youth drop-in centre.


To win a game of AFL football you need a strategy, you need tactics, you need your best players, you need a gameplan, you need physicality and endurance, you need goal congruence and most importantly you need players who run onto the field knowing that they can win and that everyone is collectively switched on.


Without this you have systematic capitulation and there is no amount of venting over Green's "antics", Sylvia's "consistency", Rivers' "disposal/accountability", Davey's "softness" etc that will change this. Yes some of them have under performed, yes some of them are not the most talented but it is only an aspect of our problems not the root of them.

I hope in our last 5 games Viney takes us as a collective back to the fundamental principles of competitive sport. God knows we need this drilled into the entire group leading up to pre-season.

No matter how good or shit the gameplan is just give them one FFS.

 

[TheBigRussian]

This

Post of the year

 

[Chip_]

IMO the psyche of the senior group has been damaged regardless of individual performances which may or may not be excusable and the level of ability that they have.
----------
At stages last year when we were copping beltings he stated that we need to get games into Scully and Trengove. In essence he hid behind them too and put a world of pressure on them in the process - not to mention send a message to the rest of the playing group STFU we aren't worried about you.


The third group he hid behind was the ever dwindling senior group.

That's well thought out & it is easiest for us as supporters to lay blame with our senior players.

The question I will ask you though is this, apparently(media reports) as late a last week a group of senior players including Green, Rivers & Jones were asked they're thoughts on keeping Bailey & they wanted him to continue. The board agreed to this short term & were to offer him 1 year, until the thumping when they decided to cut their losses.

This was done despite the senior players wanting him to stay on. Hardly a playing group disillusioned with the coach. Why would the players put up with what you've said from Bailey if this is the case?

No matter how good or shit the gameplan is just give them one FFS.

This is gold.

 

[RandB]

This was done despite the senior players wanting him to stay on. Hardly a playing group disillusioned with the coach. Why would the players put up with what you've said from Bailey if this is the case?

Chip, it may be a case that senior players are more disillusioned with the club. I've read numerous posts on multiple sites about the impact that the red and blue print may have had on how Bailey went about things as a coach as well the list management approach we've had to take.

It is quite possible (likely?) that Bails was working under directives from above and the playing group would be in a better position to understand this than us. I made the point that Bailey was fairly or unfairly in the firing line with a lot of this. Our problems are bigger than just 1 coach, I think we all know this.

My gripe though is with the football side of things and how underprepared we have been, especially throughout this year. The players may like Bailey and understandably so (at heart he's a good bloke) but from where a lot of supporters (not all) sit there have been some serious fundamental inadequacies in our game. 2011 had to be the year we had some direction and it didn't come. The job of the senior players (regardless of individual performances) was made alot harder due to this. Gameplan, tactics, team rules etc start with the coach and we have been derelict in this area.

 

[Peter Knows Best]

Lets be honest, we are the only team that brings in players that should be in all the time and drop them after one week. We never leave a team as it should be regardless if we win, lose or draw. We must be the most unorganised team in the AFL, so lets not beat around the bush. When it comes to pride, we have none. A team like Melbourne should have pride across the board, not just when we suffer a heavy loss and then come out the next week playing like premiers. So, I wish Dean Bailey all the best and hope that we play for the jumper...NO TANKING ! As a family of members, it breaks our hearts going to home games, hail, rain or shine to watch our beloved club play like amateurs when they are capable of so much more. To the Melbourne board, players and future coach, do what's right for your members/supporters.

So.. to the Melbourne members/ supporters lets not loose faith, our time will come.

 

[Demon 16]

WTF?

OF COURSE it is the senior players.

Moloney - Terrible against Geelong but had the flu and has had a great season, can't fault him.

Jamar - Injured for most of the year and has been average since he came back, but I'm not going to rip into him just yet.

Then it starts to get ugly.

Rivers - Poor mans Nick Maxwell. Does a good job zoning off if he is playing on a rubbish opponent but can't actually play on a good forward, reads the game well but is slow and weak.

Sylvia - Ridiculously frustrating with his consistency, if it wasn't for his Collingwood game I'd say he has had a poor season, since he had that game I think it has been average

Green - The worst captain in the league. Selfish and will never pass it off when it is his turn (See Bate in the Adelaide game and Sylvia against Hawthorn) but when Nicholson doesn't give it to him (A ****ing kid who at least has a crack) he loses his shit. Did I mention he has only played well in our wins against rubbish sides?

Davey - When he was playing he was soft and was barely getting a touch. Been injured since then but he really needs a change in attitude and also needs to go back to the forwardline, he can't hack it in midfield

Young players like Frawley, Watts, Trengove, Martin (Not really young in age but in terms of games played) etc don't stop trying, I look forward to the day when they are senior players.

Look at your list of our senior players - you don't see the real problem?

There are only 4 or 5 of them!!

So what your saying is that coaches don't have a role in motivating players to perform at their optimum every week?

Bailey was unable to get the best out of the previous core of senior players (Neitz, White, Yze, Robbo) when he took over, and nothing changed 4 years on. His fixation with "development" and "getting games into the kids" would have frustrated the sh#t out of the senior players.

Our senior players have talent, and they'll show that when they play under a real coach, not a patsy.

That's ridiculous. He never tried to get the best out of them, they were finished when he got them.

 

[dee64]

Look at your list of our senior players - you don't see the real problem?

There are only 4 or 5 of them!!



That's ridiculous. He never tried to get the best out of them, they were finished when he got them.

And that's why I've had an issue with Bailey from day 1.

Any coach worth their grain of salt never gives up on their players. A coach is there to get the optimum team performance out of the players at his disposal, whether the players are at their peak or not. Bailey didn't know the meaning of the term, "coach for today". All he talked about was "development". And if that was a directive from above, then Bailey is a patsy.

I don't know whether you follow other sports, but the Dallas Mavericks winning the NBA title this year was a classic case of a team that everybody wrote off as being too old and passed their best. The core group of players were well over 30, but the coach changed the gameplan to accommodate the team at his disposal.

Mark my words, we will see a far greater consistency of effort from all of the players under a new coach next year, regardless of seniority.

 

[Mightydees]

It is definitely our senior players that are letting us down.

Green and Sylvia are the main two culprits - too inconsistent

 

[Logger]

It is definitely our senior players that are letting us down.

Green and Sylvia are the main two culprits - too inconsistent

I thougt Sylvia has been pretty consistant this year, but not living up to his potential. Hasn't been BOG often, but has been in the top 5 most games.

 

[Demon 16]

Theres no doubt Sylvia has a lot of talent, but he is a real front runner. You aren't going to see him in our best when we lose badly.

If he can learn to grind it out like Trengove and McKenzie he will become elite.

 

[gaz86]

It is quite possible (likely?) that Bails was working under directives from above and the playing group would be in a better position to understand this than us. I made the point that Bailey was fairly or unfairly in the firing line with a lot of this. Our problems are bigger than just 1 coach, I think we all know this.

My gripe though is with the football side of things and how underprepared we have been, especially throughout this year. The players may like Bailey and understandably so (at heart he's a good bloke) but from where a lot of supporters (not all) sit there have been some serious fundamental inadequacies in our game. 2011 had to be the year we had some direction and it didn't come. The job of the senior players (regardless of individual performances) was made alot harder due to this. Gameplan, tactics, team rules etc start with the coach and we have been derelict in this area.

RandB, great couple of posts. I highlight above because this would be exactly the reason why the heat has been on both Cameron Schwab and Chris Connelly either internally and throughout the past week and a bit. The fact that as you say is how underprepared we have looked in games and the lack of a genuine gameplan indicates there is perhaps a school of thought that the club needs one more draft and preseason to be really prepped and ready to have a crack. That feeling definitely would be felt by plenty in the playing group, especially the senior players whom some would see themselves on borrowed time, given what happened to Junior and Cam Bruce and would be eager to have a crack at having some real success.