Noble replaces Bailey in box

[Kane McGoodwin]

Spot on Jenny.

And for all the negativity here, Noble is a good coach. He took Glenelg from an absolute rabble to a finals side, moved to Adelaide and did very well with our limited forward line of superstars before deciding list management and football department manager was a side of his development he wanted to go down.

In the end all he has to do is be forthright in the box and come up with ideas and assist Camporeale with ideas for the midfield

Apparently that role has gone to Clarke with him moving from the bench to the box...

 

[King Elvis]

Good, can we get a new ruck coach then?

You know, I've worked over 25 years and have seen a few cases of senior people getting a serious illness which necessitated them needing time of work. I have never seen the business I am in head hunt someone from outside the orginisation to replace them short term, always internally.

Not sure why the big deal on this occasion, I'd understand if they had promoted Sandos wife to the role but not somebody with experience

Define short term though; a season isn't short term for a footy Club, where as 12 months might be for a business.

And, again, does anyone expect Bailey to be able to resume his duties this year; if at all?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

If we think Bailey's role had value, then we should be aiming to fill it.

Bailey has obviously got a keen football mind. There are many roles at the club (part time and full time, depending on his recovery and ongoing treatment) that he could potentially step into down the track.

Bailey's return should be treated as a bonus that value adds, rather than us making a temporary solution and hoping he'll be back one day.

 

[DangerSloane]

Good, we can sack Bailey then and just get Noble to do both jobs on a permanent basis. Save ourselves some cash and turn that loss around.

Id rather Noble than nobody.
Id rather Bailey than anybody.

 

[DangerSloane]

I tend to agree. I keep getting told though, that Bailey is the reason for our success in 2012 and his absence last season was the reason we sucked. Bit confusing really.

We sucked last year for a few reasons:

- Our forward line was dysfunctional for much of the season
- Our mids were unfit and slow early in the season due to incorrect pre-season training focus
- We lost a few close games that we should've won (both showdowns spring to mind)

It had very little to do with the absence of Bailey.

 

[jenny61_99]

Does anyone really expect Bailey to be back? There is zero chance he will be back this year, and very little he will be at all.

It's terribly sad, but the world keeps turning - Bailey was great, did we go out and get the best man available to replace him, or did we, yet again, half arse it with a comfortable internal appointment?

I love your "it's all very clear" approach. Seriously I'm really disappointed that people continue to be looking for the negative angle in every situation that arises. That says far more about you than the capability of the Club. The Club has absolutely done the correct thing in these very difficult circumstances. They've shown Dean he still has a role to come back to (something to work towards?), but they've also provided Sando with extra support in the box on match days.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

I actually see this as a positive towards his health.

If the club saw his long term health as a factor that would not allow him to return to the coaches box, I imagine they would replace him ASAP.

However, since they have only appointed someone from inside the club on an interim basis, this gives me belief he will be good to go sometime this season. Allowing David Noble to return to the role as list manager by the end of the season.

 

[JP Sauce]

Id rather Noble than nobody.

Surely those weren't our only two options though?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I love your "it's all very clear" approach. Seriously I'm really disappointed that people continue to be looking for the negative angle in every situation that arises. That says far more about you than the capability of the Club. The Club has absolutely done the correct thing in these very difficult circumstances. They've shown Dean he still has a role to come back to (something to work towards?), but they've also provided Sando with extra support in the box on match days.

And the list manager role that we were previously told by the club was becoming increasingly important and required a full time, switched on person to manage?

 

[DangerSloane]

Surely those weren't our only two options though?

Well sort of is.

If we want Bailey to return, which we do, we're not going to employ someone new in the role until we're certain that he wont return.

THat leaves internal interim appointment as really our only option.

Will Noble be the best person at the club thats available, possible?

 

[Vader]

Surely those weren't our only two options though?

VB would have been one of the other options considered, given that he will be spending most of the season in the box rather than on the field.

 

[Campbell's Chunky]

Replace Noble with Carey and Bailey with Stevens in the thread title and it takes on a whooooooole new meaning...

 

[jenny61_99]

And the list manager role that we were previously told by the club was becoming increasingly important and required a full time, switched on person to manage?

I would suggest that the list manager is not required on game days? Look, it's not an ideal situation, but we have to manage it in the most compassionate way possible. Yes we are a business, but god dammit, when did people stop being important? I have no doubt the Club is assessing the situation constantly, but very mindful of the impact on Dean should we "replace" him permanently with someone from outside.

 

[Wood_Duck]

If Bailey's illness is not a 12 month issue then I will take up religion as a miracle will have truly occurred. It is not unusual and in fact I would consider it normal to outsource for a 12 month role. If Noble is able to do Baileys job great. But what does that say about the need for a permanent full time list manager? Conversely if replacing Bailey is nothing more than a couple of hours on a Saturday afternoon then what of his full time employment status?

Its got saving money all over it.

 

[1970crow]

pretty sad business to be honest. but to win a flag we need the best off-field group we can lay our hands on to drive the on-field group. my opinion is that this decision hasn't been made to achieve that end. whilst Bails' employment can't be straight up terminated, it's laughable to say that we had to replace from within. there is no reason that we couldn't have offered a 10 month odd contract and i'm sure that Bails would have been very understanding of our need to have continuity throughout the year. and he would also have known that if he was able to return to work in any capacity then the club would have ensured that he was utilised. fact is that his employment contract would demand nothing less.

having said that, i'm not sure when it became apparent that Dean wouldn't be able to fulfill his role and what quality of short-term replacement we could have recruited. just a bad situation all round.

 

[Elder van Berlo]

I would suggest that the list manager is not required on game days?

Is Bailey's role limited to game days? Whichever way you cut it, we now have 1 person covering 2 existing full time roles. Now, if those 2 full time roles do not really require full time attention, then it is wasteful to have them. If they do require full time attention, then we are putting ourselves at risk by having Noble burn the candle at both ends.

As I posted above, it is a tricky situation and I can see why we have done what we've done. But to suggest that one person can do both roles to the requisite standard is to suggest that we are wasting what is very probably a 6-figure annual sum on a superfluous employee.

 

[jenny61_99]

Is Bailey's role limited to game days? Whichever way you cut it, we now have 1 person covering 2 existing full time roles. Now, if those 2 full time roles do not really require full time attention, then it is wasteful to have them. If they do require full time attention, then we are putting ourselves at risk by having Noble burn the candle at both ends.

As I posted above, it is a tricky situation and I can see why we have done what we've done. But to suggest that one person can do both roles to the requisite standard is to suggest that we are wasting what is very probably a 6-figure annual sum on a superfluous employee.

It's an extra-ordinary situation FFS. It's not about ****ing money. Where's your frigging compassion?

 

[jenny61_99]

If Bailey's illness is not a 12 month issue then I will take up religion as a miracle will have truly occurred. It is not unusual and in fact I would consider it normal to outsource for a 12 month role. If Noble is able to do Baileys job great. But what does that say about the need for a permanent full time list manager? Conversely if replacing Bailey is nothing more than a couple of hours on a Saturday afternoon then what of his full time employment status?

Its got saving money all over it.

Rubbish.

 

[JP Sauce]

I would suggest that the list manager is not required on game days? Look, it's not an ideal situation, but we have to manage it in the most compassionate way possible. Yes we are a business, but god dammit, when did people stop being important? I have no doubt the Club is assessing the situation constantly, but very mindful of the impact on Dean should we "replace" him permanently with someone from outside.

Why would hiring someone from outside the club mean we're replacing Bailey permanently? Almost everyone in footy has some bullshit job title these days so why couldn't we have hired (as a quick example) Voss to be our "primary structure and movement analyst", keeping Bailey's equally silly job title vacant unitl he hopefully returns.

 

[jenny61_99]

Why would hiring someone from outside the club mean we're replacing Bailey permanently? Almost everyone in footy has some bullshit job title these days so why couldn't we have hired (as a quick example) Voss to be our "primary structure and movement analyst", keeping Bailey's equally silly job title vacant unitl he hopefully returns.

Look, you clearly don't get it. I'm not going to argue compassion with you.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Wood_Duck is correct, they could have just outsourced the role with a 12 month contract attached to it.

Companies do it all the time, especially for women on maternity leave.

 

[Jars458]

I would suggest that the list manager is not required on game days? Look, it's not an ideal situation, but we have to manage it in the most compassionate way possible. Yes we are a business, but god dammit, when did people stop being important? I have no doubt the Club is assessing the situation constantly, but very mindful of the impact on Dean should we "replace" him permanently with someone from outside.

I agree Jenny. The Crows are sending positive signals about Dean's ability to come back. I am happy for that to take precedence over goiong back to a part time last manager at this stage of the year.

 

[Elder van Berlo]

It's an extra-ordinary situation FFS. It's not about ******* money. Where's your frigging compassion?

You're missing my point. You said the list manager isn't required on game days, implying that Bailey's absence can be adequately covered on game day by our list manager. If that is the case, why do we need Bailey at all? Why doesn't Noble just do both jobs full time?

The answer, I presume, is because (1) Bailey's role extends well beyond the 2 1/2 hours between the sirens on a Saturday and (2) Bailey brings skills and knowledge to the role that Noble doesn't.

(1) suggests that to do both roles might be beyond a single person. In my view, in 2014, Noble's job is more important than Bailey's. I don't think we are a legitimate premiership threat whatever clever tactics we play with, but there are quality free agents on offer which could transform us into one.

(2) suggests that there might be better candidates than Noble for Bailey's job, assuming Bailey is not doing it.

Now, as I've said repeatedly, I can understand why the club has taken this path. It is a hugely difficult situation, both from a professional football club's perspective and from a human perspective. As a short term measure, I don't have a serious problem with Noble given the fact that the annual assistant coach swap meet is over and it is probably not easy to find a quality replacement. I also agree that it is important that Bailey isn't unceremoniously booted when he has far bigger issues on his hands.

But, as a professional football club, we also have to face the reality that there are no guarantees that he will be up to the job in 2015 or ever again. We are not talking about a suspension, or a personal issue which will pass. It is serious stuff. We would be negligent not to be discreetly assessing our contingency plans so that if the news on Bailey does not improve, we are in a position to find more than a stop gap alternative for next year. I don't know Dean Bailey, but from what I've heard about him I have no doubt he would understand that the club has to prepare for all possible eventualities.

If my memory is right, each of Dangerfield, Sloane and Walker come out of contract next year. Noble will be a busy boy doing his own job, without having to do someone else's as well.

 

[jenny61_99]

Wood_Duck is correct, they could have just outsourced the role with a 12 month contract attached to it.

Companies do it all the time, especially for women on maternity leave.

But what message does that send to Bails? "your at least a year out mate, we'll get someone in just in case you don't make it". Replacing someone on maternity leave is quite different to "replacing" someone receiving treatment for cancer. And I do get where you are all coming from, but you've got to stop looking at this as a business decision. They are dealing with a guy here that is fighting for his life. You do anything you can to give him a reason to fight. Not fill his position before they even know the prognosis after treatment.

 

[jenny61_99]

You're missing my point. You said the list manager isn't required on game days, implying that Bailey's absence can be adequately covered on game day by our list manager. If that is the case, why do we need Bailey at all? Why doesn't Noble just do both jobs full time?

The answer, I presume, is because (1) Bailey's role extends well beyond the 2 1/2 hours between the sirens on a Saturday and (2) Bailey brings skills and knowledge to the role that Noble doesn't.

(1) suggests that to do both roles might be beyond a single person. In my view, in 2014, Noble's job is more important than Bailey's. I don't think we are a legitimate premiership threat whatever clever tactics we play with, but there are quality free agents on offer which could transform us into one.

(2) suggests that there might be better candidates than Noble for Bailey's job, assuming Bailey is not doing it.

Now, as I've said repeatedly, I can understand why the club has taken this path. It is a hugely difficult situation, both from a professional football club's perspective and from a human perspective. As a short term measure, I don't have a serious problem with Noble given the fact that the annual assistant coach swap meet is over and it is probably not easy to find a quality replacement. I also agree that it is important that Bailey isn't unceremoniously booted when he has far bigger issues on his hands.

But, as a professional football club, we also have to face the reality that there are no guarantees that he will be up to the job in 2015 or ever again. We are not talking about a suspension, or a personal issue which will pass. It is serious stuff. We would be negligent not to be discreetly assessing our contingency plans so that if the news on Bailey does not improve, we are in a position to find more than a stop gap alternative for next year. I don't know Dean Bailey, but from what I've heard about him I have no doubt he would understand that the club has to prepare for all possible eventualities.

If my memory is right, each of Dangerfield, Sloane and Walker come out of contract next year. Noble will be a busy boy doing his own job, without having to do someone else's as well.

As I said many posts above, I have no doubt the Club is assessing the situation constantly, and when they know Dean's prognosis, will make the appropriate moves to either fill the position permanently or bring Bails slowly back into the fold. But for right now, Noble can fill in for him. And that is ALL it is - a fill in position, co-ordinating roles and prioritising ideas in the coaching box on match day.

In the meantime, list manager David Noble will take up Bailey’s duties of co-ordinating a new-look Crows coaching box starting with Sunday’s NAB Challenge clash with Port Adelaide at Richmond Oval.

And Noble stresses it is a “temporary” fix.

Noble is only covering Bail's role in the box on game day. Other's are picking up the slack in other areas.