Opinion Non-Crows AFL 9

[ABAB]

Who was I arguing with a few months back that Collingwood hadn’t achieved more than us?

Does this mean you are owning up to your call about Geelong not sliding this season? Another of your poor take lol.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Vader?

Even if you weren’t sure, that’s always a safe bet

 

[Slippery Pete]

Nah, can’t remember which cheerleader it was, reckon they will though

A poster did it again tonight, they just stretch out the time frame until it looks good for the Crows.

Did you know Collingwood has won as many flags as us in the last two hours?

 

[GROTTO]

Lions fullback Harris Andrews

31

Harris Andrews

Age

29

Ht

200cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.8

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

151.7

2star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

3star

D

9.8

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.8

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

94.0

2star

is rumoured to have been woken by a 1am phone call while trying to sleep before Satuday’s Grand Final.

Hawks legend Luke Hodge — who finished his career with the Lions — said on Channel 7 on Saturday afternoon that Andrews was sledged by a mystery person who made just one comment before quickly hanging up the phone.

‘Lions robbed’: AFL world erupts over costly last-minute GF call

‘Lions robbed’: AFL world erupts over ‘disgraceful’, costly last-minute Grand Final call

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[treeman]

Lions fullback Harris Andrews

31

Harris Andrews

Age

29

Ht

200cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.8

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

151.7

2star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

3star

D

9.8

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.8

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

94.0

2star

is rumoured to have been woken by a 1am phone call while trying to sleep before Satuday’s Grand Final.

Hawks legend Luke Hodge — who finished his career with the Lions — said on Channel 7 on Saturday afternoon that Andrews was sledged by a mystery person who made just one comment before quickly hanging up the phone.

‘Lions robbed’: AFL world erupts over costly last-minute GF call

‘Lions robbed’: AFL world erupts over ‘disgraceful’, costly last-minute Grand Final call

www.foxsports.com.au

Why didnt he have his phone on silent?

Sent from my SM-T220 using Tapatalk

 

[FR0GGY]

Why didnt he have his phone on silent?

Sent from my SM-T220 using Tapatalk

Hotel room phone?

 

[treeman]

Hotel room phone?

Well if that were the case then there's definitely some horrible person working at the hotel.

Sent from my SM-T220 using Tapatalk

 

[GROTTO]

Hotel room phone?

Correct, it was the hotel room phone.

Im more surprised they didnt take the precaution of disconnecting the night before a GF.

IIRC Didnt the Crows in 97 and 98 have their sleep disturbed as well by opposition fans?

 

[treeman]

Correct, it was the hotel room phone.

Im more surprised they didnt take the precaution of disconnecting the night before a GF.

IIRC Didnt the Crows in 97 and 98 have their sleep disturbed as well by opposition fans?

If that is the case then yes the obvious call is to disconnect phone.
However this is why you'd be better off sleeping in your own bed before the big dance. Something that non Victorian clubs don't have the luxury of doing.

 

[Scorpus]

Non-Vic teams being unable to win the grand final is one thing and Vic Bias certainly impacts that.

What I would like more focus on is why two non-Vic teams haven't made the grand final together since 2006?

We've had 6 Vic vs Vic and 11 Vic vs non-Vic. But 0 featuring non-Vic vs non-Vic.

Given that 7 out of 8 non-Vic teams have made a grand final in that period, while 7 out of 10 Vic teams have made a grand final, that seems like a bizarre outcome that can't just be chance.

 

[TubbsFarquhar]

Non-Vic teams being unable to win the grand final is one thing and Vic Bias certainly impacts that.

What I would like more focus on is why two non-Vic teams haven't made the grand final together since 2006?

We've had 6 Vic vs Vic and 11 Vic vs non-Vic. But 0 featuring non-Vic vs non-Vic.

Given that 7 out of 8 non-Vic teams have made a grand final in that period, while 7 out of 10 Vic teams have made a grand final, that seems like a bizarre outcome that can't just be chance.

Having dominant Geelong, Hawthorn and Richmond sides in that period probably has contributed to that somewhat. The only years where we really should've/could've had non-Vic GFs were this year (Giants losing by a point), 2020 (Port and Brisbane both ****ed up home prelims), 2016 (Giants losing by 6 to the Dogs) and 2012 (umpires).

The bigger concern is that out of the 11 Vic vs non-Vic is that only two non-Vic teams have won (2012 and 2018) and both decided in the final moments of the game. We had five consecutive years from 2014-18 were the non-Vic team finished higher but lost the right to host the home GF with the Eagles in '18 being the only team to win.

The whole "if you're good enough to win anywhere, you'll win" really doesn't fly. It shouldn't even be the case that the higher-ranked team has a disadvantage to begin with.

 

[baldandbroke]

Just the Bombers, Carlton of the big Vic clubs left to get a premiership for now ... or the two fairytales of Saints / North? Such a hard job at AFL house.

57 - Saints
28 - Carlton
24 - North
23 - Essendon
8 - Hawthorn
7 - Western Bulldogs
3 - Richmond
2 - Melbourne
1 - Geelong
0 - Collingwood

Compared to the non-victorians:

29 - Fremantle*
25 - Adelaide
20 - Brisbane
19 - Port
13 - Gold Coast*
12 - GWS*
11 - Sydney
5 - West Coast

 

[baldandbroke]

Having dominant Geelong, Hawthorn and Richmond sides in that period probably has contributed to that somewhat. The only years where we really should've/could've had non-Vic GFs were this year (Giants losing by a point), 2020 (Port and Brisbane both ****ed up home prelims), 2016 (Giants losing by 6 to the Dogs) and 2012 (umpires).

The bigger concern is that out of the 11 Vic vs non-Vic is that only two non-Vic teams have won (2012 and 2018) and both decided in the final moments of the game. We had five consecutive years from 2014-18 were the non-Vic team finished higher but lost the right to host the home GF with the Eagles in '18 being the only team to win.

The whole "if you're good enough to win anywhere, you'll win" really doesn't fly. It shouldn't even be the case that the higher-ranked team has a disadvantage to begin with.

The three game Grand Final series is the only true solution.

Highest ranked team gets 1st and 3rd games in the series.

Then you need a regular season that is at least based in fairness, 17 + 5 system would makes more sense than the current joke of a fixture.

NEVER.
GOING.
TO.HAPPEN.

It's like dreaming that somehow the AFL umpires will be neutral ... pipe dreams.

 

[Scorpus]

Having dominant Geelong, Hawthorn and Richmond sides in that period probably has contributed to that somewhat. The only years where we really should've/could've had non-Vic GFs were this year (Giants losing by a point), 2020 (Port and Brisbane both ****ed up home prelims), 2016 (Giants losing by 6 to the Dogs) and 2012 (umpires).

The bigger concern is that out of the 11 Vic vs non-Vic is that only two non-Vic teams have won (2012 and 2018) and both decided in the final moments of the game. We had five consecutive years from 2014-18 were the non-Vic team finished higher but lost the right to host the home GF with the Eagles in '18 being the only team to win.

The whole "if you're good enough to win anywhere, you'll win" really doesn't fly. It shouldn't even be the case that the higher-ranked team has a disadvantage to begin with.

I agree but I'm wondering if systemic Vic Bias is also preventing non-Vic teams from more consistently making the grand final.

Sure Richmond and Hawthorn were dominant in the 2010s but why couldn't Sydney, West Coast or even us have been dominant through that period? Why have all the dominant teams been Victorian?

Richmond benefitted from securing wantaway Gold Coast players returning to Victoria. Hawthorn benefitted from the priority pick system that was removed when non-Vic teams fell down the ladder. West Coast couldn't benefit from either.

How much has the free agent and father son systems benefitted Victorian clubs compared to non-Vic? Is that balanced by academies, of which only some non-Vic clubs even have?

Does something as simple as the soft cap limit a powerhouse financial club like West Coast from succeeding? Collingwood probably get better value per soft cap dollar due to inherent benefits from being located in Victoria but West Coast, Adelaide and Fremantle can't overspend to compensate

 

[1970crow]

I agree but I'm wondering if systemic Vic Bias is also preventing non-Vic teams from more consistently making the grand final.

Sure Richmond and Hawthorn were dominant in the 2010s but why couldn't Sydney, West Coast or even us have been dominant through that period? Why have all the dominant teams been Victorian?

Richmond benefitted from securing wantaway Gold Coast players returning to Victoria. Hawthorn benefitted from the priority pick system that was removed when non-Vic teams fell down the ladder. West Coast couldn't benefit from either.

How much has the free agent and father son systems benefitted Victorian clubs compared to non-Vic? Is that balanced by academies, of which only some non-Vic clubs even have?

Does something as simple as the soft cap limit a powerhouse financial club like West Coast from succeeding? Collingwood probably get better value per soft cap dollar due to inherent benefits from being located in Victoria but West Coast, Adelaide and Fremantle can't overspend to compensate

Surely you’re not seriously asking why we couldn’t roll a dominant period. We only won 15 games in our GF appearance year for a start. Compare our finishing position that year against the norm for 15 wins sides.

 

[dogs105]

Quite cool:

 

[jackster83]

I agree but I'm wondering if systemic Vic Bias is also preventing non-Vic teams from more consistently making the grand final.

Sure Richmond and Hawthorn were dominant in the 2010s but why couldn't Sydney, West Coast or even us have been dominant through that period? Why have all the dominant teams been Victorian?

Richmond benefitted from securing wantaway Gold Coast players returning to Victoria. Hawthorn benefitted from the priority pick system that was removed when non-Vic teams fell down the ladder. West Coast couldn't benefit from either.

How much has the free agent and father son systems benefitted Victorian clubs compared to non-Vic? Is that balanced by academies, of which only some non-Vic clubs even have?

Does something as simple as the soft cap limit a powerhouse financial club like West Coast from succeeding? Collingwood probably get better value per soft cap dollar due to inherent benefits from being located in Victoria but West Coast, Adelaide and Fremantle can't overspend to compensate

Free agency has been the biggest thing to help the big Vic clubs.

Hawthorn, Geelong and Richmond have been the biggest beneficiaries of being able to bring in elite players and top up with solid role players without giving up any draft currency.

Meanwhile, look at our own record with free agency:

Brought in: Betts, Pods (DFA)

Lost: Knights, Dangerfield (matched bid/trade), CEY, Atkins, Hartigan, Kelly, B. Crouch, Doedee?

It's an absolute fail that we've only brought in one decent player in over a decade.

 

[TubbsFarquhar]

Free agency has been the biggest thing to help the big Vic clubs.

Hawthorn, Geelong and Richmond have been the biggest beneficiaries of being able to bring in elite players and top up with solid role players without giving up any draft currency.

Meanwhile, look at our own record with free agency:

Brought in: Betts, Pods (DFA)

Lost: Knights, Dangerfield (matched bid/trade), CEY, Atkins, Hartigan, Kelly, B. Crouch, Doedee?

It's an absolute fail that we've only brought in one decent player in over a decade.

Hinge was a DFA. That said, your point still very much stands that we've only managed to lure one free agent in the main FA period.

 

[Scorpus]

Surely you’re not seriously asking why we couldn’t roll a dominant period. We only won 15 games in our GF appearance year for a start. Compare our finishing position that year against the norm for 15 wins sides.

Our issues are mostly self inflicted but what systems were we able to take advantage of?

Zero father sons. Zero academy players. Zero draft concessions. Soft cap limited to hamper our coaching panel. One free agent. Lost more players to interstate than gained. Lost our best midfielder to free agency. We were only able to bring in depth players from other clubs.

Collingwood just won a flag with three All Australian father sons, a first round Academy pick, they took on Mitchell for cheap, and brought Hill back to Victoria.

Last year Geelong won a flag largely built on free agency, father sons, and retention or acquisition of Victorians for cheap. They followed up their flag gaining a pick in a salary dump from Gold Coast and obtaining a first round draftee from GWS for cheap that wanted home.

Would we have been able to dominate if we were given top end players at a huge draft discount with a steady stream of available free agents?

 

[Scorpus]

Free agency has been the biggest thing to help the big Vic clubs.

Hawthorn, Geelong and Richmond have been the biggest beneficiaries of being able to bring in elite players and top up with solid role players without giving up any draft currency.

Meanwhile, look at our own record with free agency:

Brought in: Betts, Pods (DFA)

Lost: Knights, Dangerfield (matched bid/trade), CEY, Atkins, Hartigan, Kelly, B. Crouch, Doedee?

It's an absolute fail that we've only brought in one decent player in over a decade.

And we've only brought in decent players via trade recently because we're crap, can pay up, had draft capital and were lucky they were from SA.

 

[PeterSalt]

It's going to be interesting to see if building a decent facility at Thebarton has any impact on luring any players over

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

The three game Grand Final series is the only true solution.

Highest ranked team gets 1st and 3rd games in the series.

Then you need a regular season that is at least based in fairness, 17 + 5 system would makes more sense than the current joke of a fixture.

NEVER.
GOING.
TO.HAPPEN.

It's like dreaming that somehow the AFL umpires will be neutral ... pipe dreams.

The 3rd game could be played in a neutral venue.

 

[kirky]

Sampson and Jameson both pulled muscles in first 10 minutes

Keating played in 1998 GF, Sampson and Jameson were in the 1997 GF.

From memory in the 1998 GF, Ellen spent most of his time on the interchange bench with Keating.

 

[kirky]

Just the Bombers, Carlton of the big Vic clubs left to get a premiership for now ... or the two fairytales of Saints / North? Such a hard job at AFL house.

57 - Saints
28 - Carlton
24 - North
23 - Essendon
8 - Hawthorn
7 - Western Bulldogs
3 - Richmond
2 - Melbourne
1 - Geelong
0 - Collingwood

Compared to the non-victorians:

29 - Fremantle*
25 - Adelaide
20 - Brisbane
19 - Port
13 - Gold Coast*
12 - GWS*
11 - Sydney
5 - West Coast

My biggest fear is we make it to the big dance in the next few years and our opponent is Carlton.

Not concerned with either Saints or North as neither will get there in the near future.

 

[FR0GGY]

It's going to be interesting to see if building a decent facility at Thebarton has any impact on luring any players over

Obviously things change with time but I’d be interested to see in order the best facilities of clubs.