Oppo Camp Non-Essendon AFLW Thread

[Lore]

I wanna know why soccer have one set of rules for all senior tournaments (including uniform, ball, and field specs), but AFLW is different from AFL

Like I get that their hands are generally somewhat smaller and a smaller ball is easier to mark.

But a larger, heavier ball travels further, and the further you can kick it the more valuable a mark is; while the more valuable a mark is, the more likely they are to train that skill.

You could make the argument that a bigger, heavier ball requires a more powerful kick to get it moving, but if female soccer players can kick a size 5 ball then I don't see why female Aussie rules players can't, unless we're saying Aussie women are weaker than women elsewhere in the world.

And I mean we play football don't we? It's not throwball.

If we're going to use a smaller ball to make it easier to kick, then they need to weight it or something so that they can kick it further.

Otherwise you need smaller fields, fewer players, a 10m mark instead of 15m, a 25m free kick instead of 50m.

 

[Teen Wolf]

I wanna know why soccer have one set of rules for all senior tournaments (including uniform, ball, and field specs), but AFLW is different from AFL

Like I get that their hands are generally somewhat smaller and a smaller ball is easier to mark.

But a larger, heavier ball travels further, and the further you can kick it the more valuable a mark is; while the more valuable a mark is, the more likely they are to train that skill.

You could make the argument that a bigger, heavier ball requires a more powerful kick to get it moving, but if female soccer players can kick a size 5 ball then I don't see why female Aussie rules players can't, unless we're saying Aussie women are weaker than women elsewhere in the world.

And I mean we play football don't we? It's not throwball.

If we're going to use a smaller ball to make it easier to kick, then they need to weight it or something so that they can kick it further.

Otherwise you need smaller fields, fewer players, a 10m mark instead of 15m, a 25m free kick instead of 50m.

The smaller ball was a feature of women's footy long before AFLW.

Graves designed a slightly smaller ball to suit women's hands, initially strongly opposed within the league. Partly, Graves said, it was because the ball was not a Sherrin, but there was also a feeling that women shouldn't compromise because of their sex. "But it wasn't about whether we could play like blokes, it was about broken fingers," Phillips, a tall forward for Victoria, explains.

 

[Lore]

The smaller ball was a feature of women's footy long before AFLW.

VWFL used a size 4.5 Sherrin.

AFLW uses a size 4.

The fundamental issue I wish to discuss has not been addressed.

 

[bombre-boy]

And I mean we play football don't we? It's not throwball

Bulldogs do.

 

[Teen Wolf]

The fundamental issue I wish to discuss has not been addressed.

Broken bones are the fundamental issue, as explained in the above quote. They're not going to make the ball heavier, since that would revive problems solved 25 years ago.

If there was a notable difference in broken bones caused by the ball in men's and women's soccer, they'd introduce different sized balls.

 

[Lore]

Broken bones are the fundamental issue, as explained in the above quote. They're not going to make the ball heavier, since that would revive problems solved 25 years ago.

If there was a notable difference in broken bones caused by the ball in men's and women's soccer, they'd introduce different sized balls.

20 years ago they made a size 4.5 ball because the size 5 was not a Sherrin and people were breaking their fingers trying to mark it.

Since 2016 we have gone to a size 4 ball, which is a Sherrin and without any further broken fingers with a 4.5. Why?

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Does it seem like the balls are smaller nowadays?

Way back when, they were so much bigger.

 

[Teen Wolf]

20 years ago they made a size 4.5 ball because the size 5 was not a Sherrin

...It was the 4.5 that was not a Sherrin initially. The size 5 was, of course, always a Sherrin.

Since 2016 we have gone to a size 4 ball, which is a Sherrin and without any further broken fingers with a 4.5. Why?

Oh do you have the broken finger stats from pre and post 2016?

 

[Lore]

...It was the 4.5 that was not a Sherrin initially. The size 5 was, of course, always a Sherrin.

Oh do you have the broken finger stats from pre and post 2016?

Do you have anything from after pre and post 2002 that demonstrates the 4.5 didn't fix the broken fingers problem? It's your argument, find your own evidence if you're that dedicated to it.

I am here to have a conversation about what is going on now in the AFLW, what the underlying cause is and whether and how it can be addressed, because at the moment a smaller ball is creating a smaller radius around the ball carrier in which other players can conceivably be involved in the play, which collapses the field, results in congestion, a less desirable & lower scoring product, probably more injuries and less patronage and viewership, such that further rules were justified to address the symptoms and try to make it a watchable product, and leads to a fairly solid argument in favour of smaller community grounds for what is supposed to be the pinnacle of women's football in this country.

If your only contribution is to deny there are any problems and try to shut down conversation with no evidence and a whole lot of sea-lioning, then you're welcome to let yourself out of the Essendon board and find somewhere else to post.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Do you have anything from after pre and post 2002 that demonstrates the 4.5 didn't fix the broken fingers problem? It's your argument, find your own evidence if you're that dedicated to it.

It's actually not my argument. I'm just passing on the testimony of past female players who have gone on to be highly regarded administrators in women's football.

I am here to have a conversation about what is going on now in the AFLW, what the underlying cause is and whether and how it can be addressed, because at the moment a smaller ball is creating a smaller radius around the ball carrier in which other players can conceivably be involved in the play, which collapses the field, results in congestion, a less desirable & lower scoring product, probably more injuries and less patronage and viewership, such that further rules were justified to address the symptoms and try to make it a watchable product, and leads to a fairly solid argument in favour of smaller community grounds for what is supposed to be the pinnacle of women's football in this country.

If your only contribution is to deny there are any problems and try to shut down conversation with no evidence and a whole lot of sea-lioning, then you're welcome to let yourself out of the Essendon board and find somewhere else to post.

People with far greater credentials and influence (than you or me) in women's football, such as Laura Kane, say there's no evidence a smaller ball creates more congestion. And the opposite goes for a smaller ground.

 

[Lore]

It's actually not my argument. I'm just passing on the testimony of past female players who have gone on to be highly regarded administrators in women's football.

I wouldn't listen to Matthew Lloyd's advice based on 20 year old AFL experience, let alone the word of a suburban footballer.

One wonders how many broken fingers were the result of poor skills, poor coaching, or playing in poor conditions that were the only opportunities available to women 20 years ago, for those who pushed hard enough to even have those opportunities.

People with far greater credentials and influence (than you or me) in women's football, such as Laura Kane, say there's no evidence a smaller ball creates more congestion. And the opposite goes for a smaller ground.

You don't know my credentials and you don't speak for me

Altogether we have a series of adapted rules in AFLW that are supposed to reduce congestion and open the game up in the hope of increased scoring. Congestion, and scoring are both pretty reliant on accurate long kicking, otherwise you have to get the ball a lot closer to goal to have a chance and that is another opportunity for more congestion.

It's pretty clear that women have shorter kicking distances than men in Aussie Rules, and that the contrast between male and female athletes' kicking isn't as stark in other football codes. It is self-evident that a smaller, lighter ball shapes differently in the air, travels a different distance, and requires a different amount of power to propel it. You can extend this into a discussion of materials, water absorption, durability and level of grip.

Regardless, if you don't kick it then you don't have an opportunity to mark it, and if you can't mark it you don't have the stoppage that would allow for a more open game with a kick-mark playing style. If you can't kick it as far then you are less likely to bother kicking it, because it is not as valuable for taking territory. If the ground is smaller then again you are reducing the strategic value of a long kick and mark game style as compared to other game styles. The congestion problem is caused by the strategic problem which flows on from a combination of factors that result in shorter kicks and less high speed running.

To rectify that, there are other options besides the size of the ball, or with a smaller ball, that can be useful. Adapting the weight, width, and other variables could be beneficial. You can make it heavier, lighter, slipperier, more aerodynamic. Other forms of protective equipment may have a bigger impact on protecting the hands and increasing grip for marking without the associated problems of a smaller ball.

Other factors such as skill mastery and self-efficacy can also be addressed, but will take longer and may not fully rectify the issue. It will also depend on biomechanics to some extent, and associated strength and conditioning to get the most power and best kick with the body you have. I would be interested to see AFL players using a size 4 ball and see how much difference the ball size makes for them, to establish a baseline where variables like skill and biomechanics are moot.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Regardless, if you don't kick it then you don't have an opportunity to mark it, and if you can't mark it you don't have the stoppage that would allow for a more open game with a kick-mark playing style. If you can't kick it as far then you are less likely to bother kicking it, because it is not as valuable for taking territory.

I don't know what you're talking about. Kicks and marks are more frequent in AFLW than AFL.

 

[Lore]

I don't know what you're talking about

Yeah I've noticed. seeya

 

[ghostdog]

I thought I'd start this because;

• there isn't one
• I noticed there was some trash talk on West Coast
• Most of us are still getting to know the women's team
• By extension, most of us are still getting to know the women's comp
• Here we can share what we learn and build each other's knowledge

So, I noticed that Jasmine Garner from North stacks up well. Also, the girl from GWS whose name I can't recall, Anne someone... or Alyce...

And Ebony Marinoff from Adelaide is the kind of defensive player you want in your side, averaging 11 tackles albeit 2 games into the season.

And WC are apparently as bad as a side can get but have brought in 14 new players during the off-season.

Wow, that's all sorts of West Coast pain. Maybe they want to relocate to Tassie.

 

[ghostdog]

I wouldn't listen to Matthew Lloyd's advice based on 20 year old AFL experience, let alone the word of a suburban footballer.

One wonders how many broken fingers were the result of poor skills, poor coaching, or playing in poor conditions that were the only opportunities available to women 20 years ago, for those who pushed hard enough to even have those opportunities.

You don't know my credentials and you don't speak for me

Altogether we have a series of adapted rules in AFLW that are supposed to reduce congestion and open the game up in the hope of increased scoring. Congestion, and scoring are both pretty reliant on accurate long kicking, otherwise you have to get the ball a lot closer to goal to have a chance and that is another opportunity for more congestion.

It's pretty clear that women have shorter kicking distances than men in Aussie Rules, and that the contrast between male and female athletes' kicking isn't as stark in other football codes. It is self-evident that a smaller, lighter ball shapes differently in the air, travels a different distance, and requires a different amount of power to propel it. You can extend this into a discussion of materials, water absorption, durability and level of grip.

Regardless, if you don't kick it then you don't have an opportunity to mark it, and if you can't mark it you don't have the stoppage that would allow for a more open game with a kick-mark playing style. If you can't kick it as far then you are less likely to bother kicking it, because it is not as valuable for taking territory. If the ground is smaller then again you are reducing the strategic value of a long kick and mark game style as compared to other game styles. The congestion problem is caused by the strategic problem which flows on from a combination of factors that result in shorter kicks and less high speed running.

To rectify that, there are other options besides the size of the ball, or with a smaller ball, that can be useful. Adapting the weight, width, and other variables could be beneficial. You can make it heavier, lighter, slipperier, more aerodynamic. Other forms of protective equipment may have a bigger impact on protecting the hands and increasing grip for marking without the associated problems of a smaller ball.

Other factors such as skill mastery and self-efficacy can also be addressed, but will take longer and may not fully rectify the issue. It will also depend on biomechanics to some extent, and associated strength and conditioning to get the most power and best kick with the body you have. I would be interested to see AFL players using a size 4 ball and see how much difference the ball size makes for them, to establish a baseline where variables like skill and biomechanics are moot.

Seems logical to me. Smaller ball is harder to pick up, therefore more contests will appear and thus congestion.

 

[Zach Package]

So it seems the AFL have made the decision to hide all player weights on the app and website.

Can see why but disappointing that they’ve foreseen the need to preemptively do it.

 

[Lore]

So it seems the AFL have made the decision to hide all player weights on the app and website.

Can see why but disappointing that they’ve foreseen the need to preemptively do it.

AFLW weights have never been publicly available because it's a part-time competition, mental health, body image issues, etc.

 

[rumply]

Kiss doing the GF.

 

[eth-dog]

Kiss doing the GF.

Wrong one

 

[ant555]

Wrong one

Maybe they got a two for one deal

 

[ant555]

Seems like the EBA is pretty much as good as done.
AFLW players will be getting $70k minimum (think from next season but maybe the following)
Increase of games from next year but no number mentioned yet. Doubt it will be large. Do not see why they are not playing 17 games. Maybe the AFL likes having a draw that is not equal.

 

[Lore]

#professional

 

[ant555]

So with the good half still in the middle of Chemotherapy but wanting to go to the game last week we noticed that in the match day info the club sent us we could not take a chair into the game due to AFL rules. This is an issue as right now she has to be careful as far as catching a cold or any infections so she needs to be able to sit with a little "social distancing " . Emailed the club and they gave the standard spiel about it being an AFL rule etc. Turn on the game today and there where people sitting on fold up chairs at Unley Oval. Same deal at Casey and yes same deal at Fremantle. Playing our home games at Nrth Port last year people brought their own chairs.
Lets just say she is not a happy camper. They can jam the membership in their ring was the exact comment.
Not sure why you can not bring a fold up chair to sit on the grass hill.

 

[rumply]

Amazing stat on GWS winning at 11 different venues this season.

 

[ant555]

Amazing stat on GWS winning at 11 different venues this season.

That would be amazing given GWS are 0-3 right now