***Official Manchester United Thread***

[McLeodMagic]

Arsenal are the main challengers at the moment and I think come seasons end they also will be up there.

Chelsea still have a fight to get out of their champions League group,

They have to play Schalke away, Rosenborg away and a final game at SB against Valencia. None of the games are guaranteed wins for Chelsea and while they should get through to the rnd 16, those tough 3 matches could cost them points in the premiership.

Arsenal should get through first easy as should we.

IMO this year will be

Man U
Arsenal



Chelsea
Liverpool










Newcastle


everyone else

Newcastle won't be close to 5th.

 

[Shinboners]

Was just wondering who you guys still see as your number 1 title challanges are as on other message boards people still see Chelsea as being the number 1 challanger.

Arsenal have been fantastic this season and Chelsea have seemed to have gotten over the Mourinho departure sooner then what most would have thought and then there is Liverpool who are well....Liverpool so lets not worry about them at the moment.

Wenger thinks the Christmas period will decide their season while Chelsea are really going to be hurt by the African Cup of Nations.

I still think come seasons end Man U and Chelsea will still be top 2 but just wanted to get your thoughts?

I agree with Wenger. The Christmas/New Years fixtures will shake out a couple of the pretenders.

For Chelsea to win the title, they needed to build up a lead, but at the moment, they're trying to catch up.

Liverpool's best hope is if they get knocked out of Europe and hope that United, Arsenal, and Chelsea suffer from a fixture pile up if these sides make it to the latter stages of the Champions League.

With Fergie's comments in the media after the Arsenal game, it's pretty obvious that he considers Wenger's team to be his main rivals for the Premiership. And I think Fergie is right.

 

[apollo_creed]

I hardly think they're playing catch-up.

What are they? 2 or 3 points behind Manchester United?

Cech's injured again, Terry's been missing, Ashley Cole has been out for 2 or 3weeks, Ferreira's injured. It's all about how they cope.
Last season they couldn't cope with the defensive injuries, while this season they've suffered the injuries and they're again quite frequent but the main difference being - defensive depth and the quality of the replacements.
It's hard to see them being out of the race, even in December.
Remembering - at home they're usually a lock. The 2-2's last season were odd - and will only happen again rarely.
They've already played Liverpool and Manchester United - AWAY.

If they can get through the next month or so without Cech (which may only be two games) and at least maintain the current deficit then they'll be in and around the mark. Possibly even favouites. (save for one thing - actually a big thing - which obviously cancels out the favouritism)

When it comes to December, they probably have squad depth better than anybody to cope with the fixture pile-up. I could only compare Manchester United when it comes to squad depth of quality - and while Manchester United are stronger in some areas (width) overall Chelsea still have far greater depth. Even then - I don't think either of the top four managers will use any more players than they need to during the December/January pile-up.
So it's probably about how the first choice players cope with fatigue/injuries.

I think the big question with Chelsea will come in January.

When 45 (give or take 40) of their players are off to Africa for the nations cup.

Obviously they'll buy but whoever they bring in - won't appropriately replace Drogba and Essien. So if they're already 6 or 7 points behind going into January, then they are gone. Almost officially.

At the moment it's 2 or 3. With a HOME game to come this weekend.
And the knowledge of a home game against Manchester United later in the season.

I guess one other thing - albeit small - is League Cup participation. Three are there. One isn't. A minor advantage.

 

[Shinboners]

I hardly think they're playing catch-up.

What are they? 2 or 3 points behind Manchester United?

If it was only one team ahead of Chelsea, then that gap is really nothing. But with two teams ahead of them, they need both United and Arsenal to drop points in order to truly close the gap.

You also have to remember that Arsenal have a game in hand on Chelsea too. So potentially, Chelsea could be trailing the top team by 6 points.

Chelsea are an extraordinarily resilient side, as they showed last season. If they don't win the Premiership, it won't be from a lack of trying.

 

[Lowie01]

And it's been a few seasons now since a team overcame any sort of deficit going into the new year. I can't remember exactly what the gap was between United and Chelsea last season but I seem to recall the gap was almost exactly the same at the end of the season. 2003 was probably the last year a team overcame a worthwhile points deficit?

 

[Shinboners]

And it's been a few seasons now since a team overcame any sort of deficit going into the new year. I can't remember exactly what the gap was between United and Chelsea last season but I seem to recall the gap was almost exactly the same at the end of the season.

I think that after the New Years fixtures, United's lead was 4 points, and at the end of the season, the gap was 6.

Mind you, there was a time (albeit mid-match) where Chelsea did get ahead of United on the table. IIRC, they were beating Bolton, and we were 0-2 down against Everton. If it stayed the same, Chelsea would have been top on goal difference. I think Chelsea ended up losing that game, Everton fell apart, and we finished the day 6 points ahead of them.

2003 was probably the last year a team overcame a worthwhile points deficit?

Yep. And even then, with about 6 weeks to go in the season, Arsenal looked like they had the title wrapped up. It was an amazing end of season collapse by Arsenal.

 

[DaSawx]

Even though history suggests it doens't happen very often I don't really subscribe to thses theories.

If we had a 6 point lead on Jan 1 I still wouldn't be really comfortable, there would still be a tonne of football to be played while any of Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal could catch fire and go on a 10+ game unbeaten run (African Cup Nations or not) it can happen, while on the flip side teams can hit a bump and drop a couple of games, injuries or not.

We started the season off slowly and have already overtaken Chelsea, they could still overtake us again if we hit another bump.

I wouldn't be comfortable with 5-6 point lead until there were about 4 games left.

I guess I can be a pessamist when we are out in front

 

[TheNextBigThing]

We started the season off slowly and have already overtaken Chelsea, they could still overtake us again if we hit another bump.

Thats exactly right, after 3 games this season i think Chelsea were 5pts clear of United and then within a couple of weeks United were a few points clear of Chelsea.

Things can change around very easy and with teams having to play a bunch of fixtures over the Christmas and New Years period things could easily turn around then.

Here are the teams fixtures over that time anyway.

Chelsea
Sat Dec 22 2007 Blackburn Rovers (A) 15:00
Wed Dec 26 2007 Aston Villa (H) 15:00
Sat Dec 29 2007 Newcastle United (H) 15:00
Tue Jan 01 2008 Fulham (A) 15:00

I would be confident to win 3 of those, Blackburn would be a big chane of taking points of us.

Man United
Sat Dec 22 2007 Everton (H) 15:00
Wed Dec 26 2007 Sunderland (A) 15:00
Sat Dec 29 2007 West Ham United (A) 15:00
Tue Jan 01 2008 Birmingham City (H) 15:00

Would be surprised if any points were dropped here.

Arsenal
Sat Dec 22 2007 Tottenham Hotspur (H) 15:00
Wed Dec 26 2007 Portsmouth (A) 15:00
Sat Dec 29 2007 Everton (A) 15:00
Tue Jan 01 2008 West Ham United (H) 15:00

Two tough away trips to Pompey and Everton where they could drop points.

Liverpool
Sat Dec 22 2007 Portsmouth (H) 15:00
Wed Dec 26 2007 Derby County (A) 15:00
Sat Dec 29 2007 Manchester City (A) 15:00
Tue Jan 01 2008 Wigan Athletic (H) 15:00

Could drop points at Man City and a very slim chance against Pompey, but you would think 9pts at least.

I can see all of Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal dropping points over that period while expect United to take maximum points and perhaps open up a bit of a gap up the top. Thats if nothing major happens between now and then.

 

[Shinboners]

Thats exactly right, after 3 games this season i think Chelsea were 5pts clear of United and then within a couple of weeks United were a few points clear of Chelsea.

However, these swings usually happen in the opening months of the season. New players are introduced, tactics need to be bedded down, and enthusiastic opponents cause a few upsets. After that, most sides usually settle into a pattern. As Lowie01 has pointed out, since 98/99, only the United 02/03 team has been able to come from behind after the Christmas/New Years fixtures to win the Premiership.

Also, the Premiership winning sides have been so mentally strong that they've been able to stay in front despite the challengers chasing them. If any team out of United, Arsenal, and Chelsea come out of the New Years fixtures with a lead of 5 points or more, recent Premiership history shows that they'd have the right to be confident that they'll finish the season on top.

 

[apollo_creed]

If it was only one team ahead of Chelsea, then that gap is really nothing. But with two teams ahead of them, they need both United and Arsenal to drop points in order to truly close the gap.

A potential 5 or 6 point game with 20+ games remaining including two fixtures against Arsenal. Clearly a team Chelsea have had the better off in recent times. Assuming Malouda isn't playing - I don't expect that to change this season. So effectively Chelsea already have 4 points from those two games.

You also have to remember that Arsenal have a game in hand on Chelsea too. So potentially, Chelsea could be trailing the top team by 6 points.

I like Arsenal but they will falter.

If Chelsea are playing so well now, not conceding and everything with all of their injuries, what happens when most in their squad are available and fit?

Not to mention Roman will happily splash the dollars in January for Grant to bring in some of his own footballers. This = squad strength + a manager further advanced in putting together his own team.

Chelsea = ready to pounce
Arsenal = ready to falter

Chelsea are an extraordinarily resilient side, as they showed last season. If they don't win the Premiership, it won't be from a lack of trying.

This season they're far better equipped though.

Ok - they can't replace Cech. Regardless of Cudicini's quality.

So during his abscence (again) the difference is the quality of central defensive options. Last season with Terry + Cech out the defence was easily penetrable and the keeper busy. Alex v Boularhouz - Huge difference. Chelsea can cope with Terry's regular injury holidays this season - even Ben-Haim provides some quality in depth.

The point is - they won't be tested in this regard. Exposed? they will not be.
You want to beat them? you'll have to keep winning and winning.
None of these 2-2 draws at home this season. Not a chance.

 

[apollo_creed]

Mind you, there was a time (albeit mid-match) where Chelsea did get ahead of United on the table. IIRC, they were beating Bolton, and we were 0-2 down against Everton. If it stayed the same, Chelsea would have been top on goal difference. I think Chelsea ended up losing that game, Everton fell apart, and we finished the day 6 points ahead of them.

Almost.

note - that Chelsea v Bolton game was @ Stamford Bridge. the indestructable fortress aka Stamford Bridge. Teams don't even entertain the idea of winning there much less actually doing it.

Chelsea 2 Bolton 2

That day did decide it all though.

At half time it looked so good/positive for Chelsea but things quickly turned sour.

Unusually their defence again conceded two - at home. I think there was at least 3 games at Stamford Bridge last season with that scoreline.

just on another note - I remain very, very suspicious about Phil Neville's own goal that day. and the vision does him no favours either. it can never be proven but imo he deliberately put the ball through his own net.

 

[apollo_creed]

Here are the teams fixtures over that time anyway.

Chelsea
Sat Dec 22 2007 Blackburn Rovers (A) 15:00
Wed Dec 26 2007 Aston Villa (H) 15:00
Sat Dec 29 2007 Newcastle United (H) 15:00
Tue Jan 01 2008 Fulham (A) 15:00

I would be confident to win 3 of those, Blackburn would be a big chane of taking points of us.

You always perform v Blackburn.

No problems with 'Sparky' and this Thugburn hacks.

Villa, Newcastle, Fulham = Win, Win, Win

12 points.

Man United
Sat Dec 22 2007 Everton (H) 15:00
Wed Dec 26 2007 Sunderland (A) 15:00
Sat Dec 29 2007 West Ham United (A) 15:00
Tue Jan 01 2008 Birmingham City (H) 15:00

Would be surprised if any points were dropped here.

Precisely.

12 points with their eyes closed.

Although, I guess West Ham might have most of their injured 'stars' back.

Arsenal
Sat Dec 22 2007 Tottenham Hotspur (H) 15:00
Wed Dec 26 2007 Portsmouth (A) 15:00
Sat Dec 29 2007 Everton (A) 15:00
Tue Jan 01 2008 West Ham United (H) 15:00

They won't beat Pompey, Tottenham will be tough, Everton as well.

Likely 6 or 7 points.

Liverpool
Sat Dec 22 2007 Portsmouth (H) 15:00
Wed Dec 26 2007 Derby County (A) 15:00
Sat Dec 29 2007 Manchester City (A) 15:00
Tue Jan 01 2008 Wigan Athletic (H) 15:00

9 or 12.

Pompey will be tough though.

 

[DaSawx]

Predicitons are too easy, in hingsight, any team can have an off day

 

[DaSawx]

Rooney out 4 weeks, ankle injury in training

 

[McLeodMagic]

Rooney out 4 weeks, ankle injury in training

Giggs better not play upfront, cmon Louis!!!

 

[DaSawx]

Giggs better not play upfront, cmon Louis!!!

damn right

 

[youngsaint]

time to see if saha can put some games together with rooney out for 4 weeks... thats 4 epl games and champions league match i would suggest..
Perhaps Dong will get a run now he has scored 3 goals in 2 games in the reserves i think

 

[Corrosion]

A potential 5 or 6 point game with 20+ games remaining including two fixtures against Arsenal. Clearly a team Chelsea have had the better off in recent times. Assuming Malouda isn't playing - I don't expect that to change this season. So effectively Chelsea already have 4 points from those two games.



I like Arsenal but they will falter.

If Chelsea are playing so well now, not conceding and everything with all of their injuries, what happens when most in their squad are available and fit?

Not to mention Roman will happily splash the dollars in January for Grant to bring in some of his own footballers. This = squad strength + a manager further advanced in putting together his own team.

Chelsea = ready to pounce
Arsenal = ready to falter



This season they're far better equipped though.

Ok - they can't replace Cech. Regardless of Cudicini's quality.

So during his abscence (again) the difference is the quality of central defensive options. Last season with Terry + Cech out the defence was easily penetrable and the keeper busy. Alex v Boularhouz - Huge difference. Chelsea can cope with Terry's regular injury holidays this season - even Ben-Haim provides some quality in depth.

The point is - they won't be tested in this regard. Exposed? they will not be.
You want to beat them? you'll have to keep winning and winning.
None of these 2-2 draws at home this season. Not a chance.

Yeah, Nip, Chelsea have really had the wood over Arsenal recently. All those win......errrr....I mean draws over the past couple of season, with a Chelsea win against a bunch of kids in the Carling Cup. Yeah, real dominant.

Everyone has been saying Arsenal will falter since the start of the season. We are much better than previous seasons. We will challenge for the title.

Anyways, to get back on topic. Shame about Rooney. Maybe Blackburn could snatch a point this weekend, probably not, though.

 

[apollo_creed]

Yeah, Nip, Chelsea have really had the wood over Arsenal recently. All those win......errrr....I mean draws over the past couple of season, with a Chelsea win against a bunch of kids in the Carling Cup. Yeah, real dominant.

Everyone has been saying Arsenal will falter since the start of the season. We are much better than previous seasons. We will challenge for the title.

Anyways, to get back on topic. Shame about Rooney. Maybe Blackburn could snatch a point this weekend, probably not, though.

I seem to recall those two 'draws' last season.

One of them - they hit the post/bar three times and completely ran over the top of you.

Very lucky you were.

The second one - again w/10 team (noticed you left that part out) they dominated the second half and came back from a goal down.

As for your 'kids' in the CC final. I suggest you look at some of the names on your team sheet that day. You were beaten 2-1. Again.... by Chelsea.

Arsenal FC = Property of Chelsea FC.

 

[Benno_900]

One of them - they hit the post/bar three times and completely ran over the top of you.

Very lucky you were.

The second one - again w/10 team (noticed you left that part out) they dominated the second half and came back from a goal down.

As for your 'kids' in the CC final. I suggest you look at some of the names on your team sheet that day. You were beaten 2-1. Again.... by Chelsea.

I remember that first game well; we were missing both our starting CBs (Toure/Gallas), a few midfielders (Rosicky/Hleb IIRC) and Henry. We still managed to take the lead at their ground despite their dominance with their full team; I didn't expect a result after seeing the team sheets.

Did any team really care about the second league match? Season was over by then.

All well and good to mention we had half our A side out there (2 starters, 3 subs ), but they had their best side. And you'd claim their best lineup > our best anyway.

 

[RoosterLad]

I am amazed that Nippy labeled Arsenal's game against Spurs as "tough".

 

[Bourky23]

Rooney out 4 weeks, ankle injury in training

apparently tripped on equipment

 

[Bourky23]

Rooney injured falling over training equipment
November 09, 2007

Manchester United striker Wayne Rooney injured his ankle yesterday after falling over some training equipment!

The Sun says the Manchester United and England star - now ruled out for four weeks - was waiting by the side of the training pitch when he took a step back.

He got his leg tangled in a metal piece of apparatus which the players use to run round.

Rooney, 22, fell to the ground holding his twisted ankle and immediately called for treatment.

He was carried from the pitch and left the training ground on crutches for a scan on his ligament injury.

The right ankle is twisted and badly bruised and United believe he will not play again for at least a month.

Rooney may not actually play again for United until their trip to Liverpool on Sunday December 16.

This is the second major injury set-back for Rooney this season.

He broke his metatarsal in the opening game of the season against Reading at home and missed the next five games.

what a clown

 

[Punchy Bassett]

apparently tripped on equipment

Was waiting to hear it was Saha that did it with a bad challenge in training

 

[youngsaint]

You boys signed that kid from Burnley.. John Cofie.. 14yo striker german born with Ghanaian in him as well....

http://www.theworldgame.com.au/home/index.php?pid=st&cid=99473