Ongoing Test match XI speculation thread.

[Footy Smarts]

Burns just shouldn't be anywhere near the team. He's played in easy conditions and been ok at best. He can't buy a run at the moment and he averages under 40 at first class level. All the evidence shows he's a solid first class player but no more and we've got others bashing the door down. Harris should be well ahead of him in the pecking order and he doesn't deserve a spot either.

If Warner's not fit for the first test I'd be asking Paine to do a job opening the batting with Pucovski. He's got the technique for it and he'll tough it out against the new ball. Better than dropping a better performed batsman for Burns or shifting around Lab or Smith and it allows us to bat Green at 7. Once Warner's fit he comes in, Paine drops down and one of Head/Wade/Green are the unlucky ones to make way.

Pucovski, Labuschagne, Smith, Wade, Head and Green are clearly our best 6 fit bats on talent and form. Don't leave one out for a struggling player just because they're an opener. Worst case Paine doesn't work as an opener and you likely get a similar result to picking Burns anyway.

 

[Kapow!!!]

Yeah cos Smith only averages 67 batting at 3, would kill the side to bat him there...

If I were to conceed anything it would be to swap Smith and Marnus in the order (ala what The Falcon Strike suggests). Marnus opening however is a terrible idea. There's a reason he pushed down the order in the Shield. At least at 3 he can see what the ball is doing for a few overs before strolling out to the crease.

 

[Kapow!!!]

Burns just shouldn't be anywhere near the team. He's played in easy conditions and been ok at best. He can't buy a run at the moment and he averages under 40 at first class level. All the evidence shows he's a solid first class player but no more and we've got others bashing the door down. Harris should be well ahead of him in the pecking order and he doesn't deserve a spot either.

If Warner's not fit for the first test I'd be asking Paine to do a job opening the batting with Pucovski. He's got the technique for it and he'll tough it out against the new ball. Better than dropping a better performed batsman for Burns or shifting around Lab or Smith and it allows us to bat Green at 7. Once Warner's fit he comes in, Paine drops down and one of Head/Wade/Green are the unlucky ones to make way.

Pucovski, Labuschagne, Smith, Wade, Head and Green are clearly our best 6 fit bats on talent and form. Don't leave one out for a struggling player just because they're an opener. Worst case Paine doesn't work as an opener and you likely get a similar result to picking Burns anyway.

My thing here is that, long term, you'd want Green at 6 (or even 5 if he keeps tracking as is). And when Warner comes back, who drops out?

 

[eddiesmith]

If I were to conceed anything it would be to swap Smith and Marnus in the order (ala what The Falcon Strike suggests). Marnus opening however is a terrible idea. There's a reason he pushed down the order in the Shield. At least at 3 he can see what the ball is doing for a few overs before strolling out to the crease.

With Burns and a debutant at the top, he won’t have time to see anything

Ever since Smith came back in there has been a big thing about he has to bat 4, he can’t bat 3 and it never made sense to me so thought you were another of those!

But Labs has said he is happy to open and for one test why not try it? Langer has said he isn’t dropping the incumbents so the only open spot if opening. So if Labs doesn’t move up, then Green misses out, seems a bad choice. Puck has potentially blown his chance and Green taken his.

 

[anchor man]

Regardless of whether Warner is fit or not, I think that Burns is signed in already.
But I am not in his corner.I think one of his draw backs, is that fact that he is a very ordinary fieldsman.They can't hide him at test level.
I remember a few years back when he and Kahwaja were on the outer, they were both told to improve their fielding.I don't think that Burns has.

 

[Badesumofu]

If you can bat 3, you can open. Green coming in for Burns massively strengthens the side, and bottom line he's too good to leave out.

Labuschagne
Pucovski
Smith
Head
Wade
Green
Paine
Starc
Cummins
Lyon
Hazlewood

Then when one of the quicks inevitably has a niggle, Pattinson or Swepson comes in depending on the surface. Having Green in there means you can give more serious consideration to playing a second spinner when warranted. When Warner comes back, whichever batter is underperforming can make way. Labuschagne being able to open and Green being a genuine all-rounder gives you so much flexibility. Should use it.

 

[Kapow!!!]

With Burns and a debutant at the top, he won’t have time to see anything

Ever since Smith came back in there has been a big thing about he has to bat 4, he can’t bat 3 and it never made sense to me so thought you were another of those!

But Labs has said he is happy to open and for one test why not try it? Langer has said he isn’t dropping the incumbents so the only open spot if opening. So if Labs doesn’t move up, then Green misses out, seems a bad choice. Puck has potentially blown his chance and Green taken his.

Why would you even risk moving Labs after he has found a role at 3 (or potentially 4)? Opening is a completely different kettle of fish requiring a different temperament, one he previously struggled with. Considering he scored a large chunk of our runs last summer I'd say he fills a pretty important role.

I'd have Green in over Wade whose most valuable contribution last summer was amusing the world with his ability to take and dance around a Wagner short ball

 

[eddiesmith]

Why would you even risk moving Labs after he has found a role at 3 (or potentially 4)? Opening is a completely different kettle of fish requiring a different temperament, one he previously struggled with. Considering he scored a large chunk of our runs last summer I'd say he fills a pretty important role.

I'd have Green in over Wade whose most valuable contribution last summer was amusing the world with his ability to take and dance around a Wagner short ball

Wade is averaging 50 since he got moved up to no5 in the last test of the Ashes. So really there is no reason to drop anyone in the middle order. So the only spot available is at opener.

 

[Kapow!!!]

Wade is averaging 50 since he got moved up to no5 in the last test of the Ashes. So really there is no reason to drop anyone in the middle order. So the only spot available is at opener.

Hilarious. Wade last summer failed to score a ton, 2 50's (a 50 and a 60) and had 2 not outs (30* and 38*) from 8 starts, conveniently padding those stats. Both of those nots were in a very strong position set from the openers and Marnus where a declaration was made

Nice try, just as disingenuous with those stats as ever Ed


EDIT: in fact only 1 fifty, I missed read my nites I jotted down as I'm at work and can only write things down at the back of a crowded exercise book

 

[eddiesmith]

Hilarious. Wade last summer failed to score a ton, 2 50's (a 50 and a 60) and had 2 not outs (30* and 38*) from 8 starts, conveniently padding those stats. Both of those nots were in a very strong position set from the openers and Marnus where a declaration was made

Nice try, just as disingenuous with those stats as ever Ed

Nothing disingenuous about the fact he is averaging 50 since they moved him from 6 up to 5. That is a fact.

Also harsh to try and blame not outs for padding the stats, it’s not his fault Australian pitches are so flat that even your no5 is robbed of an opportunity to make runs.

 

[Phone]

After the 2015 Ashes people for some reason worked themselves into believing Smith was valuable at 3, that 4 would be a better spot. It was stupid then and it's stupid now. But that's what it is. It's basically canon now. I can picture a circumstance in the future where Labuschagne opens, but it's not in a home summer with a mostly healthy team.

 

[Kapow!!!]

Nothing disingenuous about the fact he is averaging 50 since they moved him from 6 up to 5. That is a fact.

Also harsh to try and blame not outs for padding the stats, it’s not his fault Australian pitches are so flat that even your no5 is robbed of an opportunity to make runs.

It's 9 innings over which is padded with 2 not outs, 1 ton, 1 50 and a string of failures against quality opposition in NZ.

It's very disingenuous

 

[Footy Smarts]

My thing here is that, long term, you'd want Green at 6 (or even 5 if he keeps tracking as is). And when Warner comes back, who drops out?

Green batting at 7 for his debut is absolutely fine. He's just playing as a middle order bat. It would only be because we don't have a 2nd opener in the team and I'd prefer Paine be sacrificed as opener rather than shifting one of Wade, Head or Green who aren't suited to opening in tests.

Once Warner's back one of Green, Wade and Head has to go out. If Green has to bide his time behind 2 solid players in good form like Head and Wade fair enough. If he's good enough he'll be in soon enough and a full season of shield cricket to build his fitness wouldn't be the worst thing. But leaving him out for Burns who can't buy a run right now and whose record is ordinary despite playing a lot of games in Aus against very ordinary opponents would be a waste.

 

[eddiesmith]

It's 9 innings over which is padded with 2 not outs, 1 ton, 1 50 and a string of failures against quality opposition in NZ.

It's very disingenuous

It’s current form, his most recent stint in the side he is doing nothing wrong. If you want to drop a batsman averaging 50 because that’s easier than getting a batsman to move up the order then fine but it’s harsh to end a blokes career when he is performing.

Of course if Green comes in at 6 then Head has to move up when he dies better at 6 than 5. Wade outperformed Head last summer so why is Wade the one to go? Other than a long standing hate of the bloke?

 

[Kapow!!!]

It’s current form, his most recent stint in the side he is doing nothing wrong. If you want to drop a batsman averaging 50 because that’s easier than getting a batsman to move up the order then fine but it’s harsh to end a blokes career when he is performing.

Of course if Green comes in at 6 then Head has to move up when he dies better at 6 than 5. Wade outperformed Head last summer so why is Wade the one to go? Other than a long standing hate of the bloke?

Averaging 50 is very generous use of the average. If we take his last 5 innings (aka his last test series) he averages 29.75 (with 1 not out, 0 50s, 0 tons).

I'd say that's trending poorly enough to warrant re-evaluation.

 

[Kapow!!!]

It’s current form, his most recent stint in the side he is doing nothing wrong. If you want to drop a batsman averaging 50 because that’s easier than getting a batsman to move up the order then fine but it’s harsh to end a blokes career when he is performing.

Of course if Green comes in at 6 then Head has to move up when he dies better at 6 than 5. Wade outperformed Head last summer so why is Wade the one to go? Other than a long standing hate of the bloke?

Also if we're including the Head comparison: Head averaged 43 against NZ including a ton and a 50. So no, Wade did not infact outperform Head

 

[eddiesmith]

Also if we're including the Head comparison: Head averaged 43 against NZ including a ton and a 50. So no, Wade did not infact outperform Head

Yet for the summer, Wade averaged 43 and Head 39. We discounting Pakistan because Head failed?

 

[Doashuey]

Green batting at 7 for his debut is absolutely fine. He's just playing as a middle order bat. It would only be because we don't have a 2nd opener in the team and I'd prefer Paine be sacrificed as opener rather than shifting one of Wade, Head or Green who aren't suited to opening in tests.

Once Warner's back one of Green, Wade and Head has to go out. If Green has to bide his time behind 2 solid players in good form like Head and Wade fair enough. If he's good enough he'll be in soon enough and a full season of shield cricket to build his fitness wouldn't be the worst thing. But leaving him out for Burns who can't buy a run right now and whose record is ordinary despite playing a lot of games in Aus against very ordinary opponents would be a waste.

FMD Paine opening? That simply will not happen. He is not a great bat at the best of times, least of all against the new ball and a very good attack. Opener is not a sacrificial position, getting off to a good start is very important, you dont throw that away. Lets just tell India they only need to take 9 of our wickets. Wade is an opening option.
Green is a better player than either Head or Wade and he does not sit out games because we have "solid" players in reasonable form. He is an exceptional player in superb form and should be given chances above both Wade and Head if something needs to give. Leaving him out for Burns- agree total waste. Leaving him out for Wade or Head- also a waste.

Footy Smarts=/= cricket smarts

 

[Footy Smarts]

It's 9 innings over which is padded with 2 not outs, 1 ton, 1 50 and a string of failures against quality opposition in NZ.

It's very disingenuous

That's a terrible summary of his summer. Against Pakistan he came in with us in a dominant position both times and got a 60 and 38*. He did fine and didn't get the chance to really pad his stats.

Against NZ in Perth he went in under lights in both innings when the conditions were really tough. In the first innings it was against the 2nd new ball as well and he was out for 12. In the 2nd innings he batted for 10 overs before stumps and survived while Burns, Labuschagne, Smith, Head and Paine were all dismissed in the last 15 overs before stumps. He was the one guy who survived the really tough conditions. He was out the next morning caught in the deep trying to push the run rate.

He got 38 and 30* in Melbourne and failed against the 2nd new ball in Sydney in his one innings. Basically the times he looked good he was either not out or got out trying to up the run rate and in Perth he had to come in twice in easily the most difficult batting conditions of the summer.

He made 2 centuries in tough conditions in the ashes, he's averaging 70 in 4 shield innings this year and going by the T20 match is seeing it like a beach ball. He's barely put a foot wrong and would be very stiff to be left out.

 

[MALTSY]

Green has basically picked himself with thus performance for Aust A. Love his ability to bowl short but impacting spells. Game changer.

 

[Kapow!!!]

Yet for the summer, Wade averaged 43 and Head 39. We discounting Pakistan because Head failed?

I'm happy you mentioned that because that brings me to my core point: You're very intellectually dishonest. You set the parameters wide to remove the context and then establish your own

Lets look at those other knocks vs Pakistan shall we?

Wade

60
38*

Head

24
DNB


Now lets add some context: 1st test Wade comes in at 3-358 - Pretty comfortable position, low pressure but not necessarily quick runs for a declaration. Scores 60. Head comes in at 4-468 when it absolutely is time for quick runs to force a declaration.

Second test: Wade 38* coming in at 3/490 when Warner is nearly 300*. Head doesn't even bloody bat.

As always, context is key to statistics. The NZ showed more

 

[Pippen94]

It’s current form, his most recent stint in the side he is doing nothing wrong. If you want to drop a batsman averaging 50 because that’s easier than getting a batsman to move up the order then fine but it’s harsh to end a blokes career when he is performing.

Of course if Green comes in at 6 then Head has to move up when he dies better at 6 than 5. Wade outperformed Head last summer so why is Wade the one to go? Other than a long standing hate of the bloke?

Head is younger with better record

 

[Coasters7]

If the options are Wade, Green and Burns then im happy for Wade to open. Can’t be any worse than Burns surely and it allows us to play Green.

The way I see it 3-5 are locked in with zero movement up or down. Surely a Wade opening/Cam Green combo is better than a shaky Burns and Wade at 6?

 

[Nuke Fremantle]

Wade was thoroughly unconvincing last summer. His method for dealing with Neil Wagner was to let the ball hit him. Can't see that working againsnt Bumrah and the like. But I predict he'll retain his spot in the side because although Green bats like champ and bowls like the wind he hasn't as yet shown an ability to "yap".

 

[eddiesmith]

If the options are Wade, Green and Burns then im happy for Wade to open. Can’t be any worse than Burns surely and it allows us to play Green.

The way I see it 3-5 are locked in with zero movement up or down. Surely a Wade opening/Cam Green combo is better than a shaky Burns and Wade at 6?

If 3-5 are locked in then Wade is locked in? Wade has been 5 and Head 6 since the last Ashes test