Our ageing List

[CaptainDangerfield]

Regardless of where we finish this year there will be come interesting times ahead. Trigg has already stated that we won't carry non-1st tier players past the age of 30. If that's the case, by the start of season 2010 Torney, Welsh, Burton, Perrie and Biglands will all have been retired/delisted. And then throw in 1st tier players in Roo, Macca, Edwards, Bassett and possbly Goody, that's a hell of alot of experience to lose in just 2 years.

To ease the pain, IMO we need to delist 3, at the very least 2, of the above at the end of this year. I for the life of me can't think who though.

-Welsh would be a likely candidate, although we probably need him as insurance should Roo break down again in 08.
-Burton - Has his body had it. Has been riddled with injury since about round 17/18 of last year. 30 next year.
-Torney. Would be a tough call. One of my favourites.
-Biglands. Will be 31 next year but would be really harsh to delist a player returning from a serious injury. If he does play, he must become our 4th choice ruckman behind Huddo, Maric and Griff. He may look for opportunities elsewhere, although at his age he would be struggling.
-Perrie - Has also been riddled with injury over the last 2 years but can we afford to delist one of the few kpp's we have. I don't think so.
-No chance of being retired in 2008 - Goody, Edwards, Bassett, Macca and fingers crossed Roo.

Tough decisions ahead.

Thoughts.

 

[bus24]

It comes down to whether we want to get serious about building a side a future, or whether we want to keep plodding along finishing 6th or 7th for a few years.

I think they've integrated some younger guys in to the side pretty well so far, but at the end of 2007 it's crunch time.

 

[Drummond]

Thoughts.

Biglands MUST be moved on unless he plays as a permanent forward in 2008 and beyond. I know it’s harsh delisting players who’ve just suffered a knee reconstruction but with the continued development of Maric and Griffin you cannot have a 30+ mediocre ruckman with no upside. The right decision is to move him on, but are we tough enough to go through with it? This will be a big story.

I see no reason why Torney shouldn’t play on. Hinge is probably the one to take over his position but he’s probably not quite read yet to play an entire season. Keep him on for next season but if his form waivers and Hinge continues to improve, then make the switch.

Welsh will be retained because unfortunately we’ve got very little else up forward. He survives for another year, but I would think 2008 will be his last.

Burton and Perrie are as safe as houses.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Biglands MUST be moved on unless he plays as a permanent forward in 2008 and beyond. I know it’s harsh delisting players who’ve just suffered a knee reconstruction but with the continued development of Maric and Griffin you cannot have a 30+ mediocre ruckman with no upside. The right decision is to move him on, but are we tough enough to go through with it? This will be a big story.

I see no reason why Torney shouldn’t play on. Hinge is probably the one to take over his position but he’s probably not quite read yet to play an entire season. Keep him on for next season but if his form waivers and Hinge continues to improve, then make the switch.

Welsh will be retained because unfortunately we’ve got very little else up forward. He survives for another year, but I would think 2008 will be his last.

Burton and Perrie are as safe as houses.

So you would only delist 1 player from the guys I mentioned?

 

[Drummond]

So you would only delist 1 player from the guys I mentioned?

Ricciuto will retire, there’s no question in my mind. His body was in tatters last season, he decided to play on in 2007 and look how it’s gone. He grimaces almost every time he runs and for his sake he should retire. He’ll chip in with 1 or 2 goals every game for the remainder of the season but I’m afraid it’s all over at seasons end.

One man I think you should have included was Matty Bode. This is his 7th season with the AFC and he’s only managed 3 seasons with 10+ games. If it were up to me I would keep him on the list in 2008 but his body must be a concern.

Retire: Ricciuto
Delist: Biglands, Gill (although he does need to be tried), Jericho
Trade: Meesen (only if he requests a move home)

 

[*PAF]

Like always, contracts will play a big part on who goes and who stays.
Who is out of contract this year?

 

[Pride of SA]

Meesen (only if he requests a move home)

ONLY if he requests a trade? Hes shown nothing in the SANFL to indicate he`ll ever even tear them apart there let alone AFL level. I`d rather have him off my books than Gill, who is too good for SANFL but hasnt even been tried (which is ironic considering our makeshift forwardline is pedestrian at best). Cut our losses, yet another first rounder dud.

Retire/Delist: Ricciuto Biglands Bode Doughty and Meesen if not traded.

I think Goodwin will probably retire at the end of 2008 too. add Welsh and Perrie to the delistings if hopefully Sellar has fixed a spot up forward. God if Westhoff can kick 4 a game with that body and less talent Sellar needs to be given enough time, persisting with Perrie/Bock/Bode/ etc up front is just mediocre at best.

time for a sweep of the broom, we need to see exactly which of these young kids can play before they are exposed by the retirement of the fab 4.

 

[*PAF]

Any of these been extended?

From your contracts thread.

3 Year Contract until end of 2007:

Edwards
Reilly
Hentschell
Hudson
Rutten


2 year contract until end of 2007:

van Berlo
Vince
Douglas


1 year contract until end of 2007:

Ricciuto
Porplyzia
Maric
Meesen
Welsh

 

[swanfan]

Neil Craig has to make the hard call with regards to retirements, delistings and trades. I think he is too much a believer in the second chance saloon. Until he makes the hard calls that need to be made, we are not going to move forward as a team or a club.

 

[Drummond]

I`d rather have him off my books than Gill, who is too good for SANFL but hasnt even been tried (which is ironic considering our makeshift forwardline is pedestrian at best).

Start a poll mate; see who people would rather on the list next year. If you honestly would rather Gill on the list next year over Meesen, then I don't know why I'm even bothering.

ONLY if he requests a trade? Hes shown nothing in the SANFL to indicate he`ll ever even tear them apart there let alone AFL level. Cut our losses, yet another first rounder dud.

Again I’ll say it again because people never seem to learn. Hamish McIntosh was pick 9 in the 2002 draft and only played 1 game in his first 3 years on the list. This year, his 5th, he is averaging 16 possessions and 19 hit-outs per game.

Ruckmen take time; I'm really not sure why people don't understand this.

 

[swanfan]

Ruckmen take time; I'm really not sure why people don't understand this.

My vision isn't as blurred as yours mate when it comes to the red and blue . Meesen has been here long enough now to show some promise. Yes, he has had his injury problems but what I have seen at Norwood has not impressed me and Maric has overtaken him in his development and what I had seen of Tippett in his short time playing the game impressed me more than Meesen.

 

[pjcrows]

Again I’ll say it again because people never seem to learn. Hamish McIntosh was pick 9 in the 2002 draft and only played 1 game in his first 3 years on the list. This year, his 5th, he is averaging 16 possessions and 19 hit-outs per game.

Ruckmen take time; I'm really not sure why people don't understand this

Give it up, Drummond.

 

[Pride of SA]

Ruckmen take time; I'm really not sure why people don't understand this.

Yeah they do, and Griffin and Maric have shown him how it should have been done. Our ruck stocks were low enough this year with Biglands out Clarke gone and Maric injured that he could have easily gotten into the side had he shown anything.

I`m not sure if all things were equal I`d pick Gill over Meesen either, but Gill at least has shown enough at the SANFL level to justify thinking he could show something at least at AFL level, and lets face it, he has a lot more chance of getting a go given our makeshift forward line. Meesen doesnt even look like hes improving at the SANFL level.

Question, can the three we have to get rid of at the end of the year before the draft include retirements?

 

[Drummond]

Yeah they do, and Griffin and Maric have shown him how it should have been done. Our ruck stocks were low enough this year with Biglands out Clarke gone and Maric injured that he could have easily gotten into the side had he shown anything.

What? Meesen suffered a knee injury in the pre-season and was out for 12 weeks. Weren't you aware of this?

I`m not sure if all things were equal I`d pick Gill over Meesen either, but Gill at least has shown enough at the SANFL level to justify thinking he could show something at least at AFL level, and lets face it, he has a lot more chance of getting a go given our makeshift forward line. Meesen doesnt even look like hes improving at the SANFL level.

One major difference, Meesen has just turned 21 and Gill is almost 25. When Gill was Meesen's age he was playing in the VFL and struggling to have an impact. Of course he's showing great promise now, but 3-4 years ago he was average at best.

How isn't Meesen improving?

In 2005 as a 18 year-old he played 9 games kicking 7 goals. In 2006 he averaged 13 possessions, 13 hit-outs and 5 marks per game in 20 games. And this season he suffered an injury people are seemingly underrating. He dislocated his knee cap and had surgery to re-attach the tendon. That’s one very serious injury and he was always going to take his time to find his best.

 

[pjcrows]

Bloody hell, Drummond! You seem to able to make a very convincing argument, but you're just simply wrong.

When Griffin started to struggle a few weeks ago - and when he suffered an ankle injury - the two ruck options to come in were Maric and Meesen.

1) If Meesen was so close to AFL standard, then he would have come in before Maric, who was far more underdone and out-of-form than Meesen.

2) Reid and Craig both mentioned McGregor and Perrie as ruck options ahead of Meesen when Maric wasn't available. Not once did they even mention Meesen's name. If he was close, they would be mentioning his name - like they are with Gill and like they were with Douglas. I haven't heard the name "Meesen" come out of the mouths of the coaching staff at the Crows since he got injured in February.

He's just not going to play in the ruch for Adelaide, mate.

 

[bus24]

Bloody hell, Drummond! You seem to able to make a very convincing argument, but you're just simply wrong.

When Griffin started to struggle a few weeks ago - and when he suffered an ankle injury - the two ruck options to come in were Maric and Meesen.

1) If Meesen was so close to AFL standard, then he would have come in before Maric, who was far more underdone and out-of-form than Meesen.

2) Reid and Craig both mentioned McGregor and Perrie as ruck options ahead of Meesen when Maric wasn't available. Not once did they even mention Meesen's name. If he was close, they would be mentioning his name - like they are with Gill and like they were with Douglas. I haven't heard the name "Meesen" come out of the mouths of the coaching staff at the Crows since he got injured in February.

When Maric was struggling, Meesen wasn't even on the park.

 

[Drummond]

Bloody hell, Drummond! You seem to able to make a very convincing argument, but you're just simply wrong.

When Griffin started to struggle a few weeks ago - and when he suffered an ankle injury - the two ruck options to come in were Maric and Meesen.

1) If Meesen was so close to AFL standard, then he would have come in before Maric, who was far more underdone and out-of-form than Meesen.

2) Reid and Craig both mentioned McGregor and Perrie as ruck options ahead of Meesen when Maric wasn't available. Not once did they even mention Meesen's name. If he was close, they would be mentioning his name - like they are with Gill and like they were with Douglas. I haven't heard the name "Meesen" come out of the mouths of the coaching staff at the Crows since he got injured in February.

He's just not going to play in the ruch for Adelaide, mate.

You are unbelievable. Points 1 and 2 are BOTH completely wrong. How about we look at the FACTS?

• Maric made his return to the SANFL seniors in round 6. He played 2 reserves matches before this so he returned to football in round 4.

• Meesen returned in round 9, 6 weeks after Maric. In his return game he played half a game in the reserves. So all up he’s played 6 games in 2007; 4 for Norwood reserves, 1 for West reserves, and 1 league game.

How on earth was Maric "far more underdone and out-of-form than Meesen". And as for point 2, not at ANY STAGE this season has Meesen been available when Maric hasn't.

Get. A. Clue.

Thankyou.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Any of these been extended?

From your contracts thread.

3 Year Contract until end of 2007:

Edwards
Reilly
Hentschell
Hudson
Rutten


2 year contract until end of 2007:

van Berlo
Vince
Douglas


1 year contract until end of 2007:

Ricciuto
Porplyzia
Maric
Meesen
Welsh

Reilly, Hudson and van Berlo have all extended and Maric has agreed to terms IIRC.

 

[vlbl]

He's just not going to play in the ruch for Adelaide, mate.[/quote]

Yeh as much as i hate to say it this seems to be a real 'reality' now that maric and griff have shown heaps of promise. I really wanted meesen to get a game at afl this year but it is highly unlikely unless both maric and griff break down.Even worse i'm seriously starting to think meesen won't b on our list next season especailly with the return of biglands and Tippet we do have a surplus of ruckmen.

If Rutten is out next week then i would love to see meesen in the team with maric playing in the back line and meesen having a run in the ruck and they could swap over. But there is no chance this would even cross the minds of th coaching staff.

 

[Pride of SA]

And this season he suffered an injury people are seemingly underrating. He dislocated his knee cap and had surgery to re-attach the tendon. That’s one very serious injury and he was always going to take his time to find his best.

actually i didnt realise the injury was that serious no. I still think Meesen wont be in Crows colours one way or another next year, and I think its a bit harsh to delist Gill going on his form in the SANFL without giving him a go.

 

[Campbell's Chunky]

Ricciuto will retire, there’s no question in my mind. His body was in tatters last season, he decided to play on in 2007 and look how it’s gone. He grimaces almost every time he runs and for his sake he should retire. He’ll chip in with 1 or 2 goals every game for the remainder of the season but I’m afraid it’s all over at seasons end.

One man I think you should have included was Matty Bode. This is his 7th season with the AFC and he’s only managed 3 seasons with 10+ games. If it were up to me I would keep him on the list in 2008 but his body must be a concern.

Retire: Ricciuto
Delist: Biglands, Gill (although he does need to be tried), Jericho
Trade: Meesen (only if he requests a move home)

This sounds about right to me. The only questionable one there for mine would be Gill. Do we give him another go, probably not, but he is one of a couple there that could be gone.

There wont be anymore than 4 delists/retirements this year IMO, given the percieved weak draft.

 

[crowsarethebest]

It'll be pretty harsh to delist someone at the end of 2007 season. I reckon Pfeiffer is in danger. I know he was a first rounder, but that doesn't meen you should give him more time than others. He hasn't exactly set the world on fire although he has been injured and sick. It would be harsh on him, but he would be a candidate IMO. GIll hasn't been tried- Harsh to delist him. Hasn't been tried yet. Biglands was a pretty good ruckman before he did his knee- people are underating him a little. He is a candidate to be delisted for me, but I don't know whether the Crows coaching staff think he is. Roo might go but that isn't a certainty. He looks very very worn out though and is no where nearhis best. Meese might go- traded most likely.

There is no clear cut- Delist/trade/retire candidate. Very very hard to pick who should go. THe problem with our list is- A lot of them are solid/average players at AFL level at best. Doughty, Perrie, Biglands etc... all are handy AFL players but don't set the world alight. Not delist candidates but not rock solid starting 18 players. We have way way too types like them on our list- not duds but not stars. Will be interesting what the club does at the end of the year.

 

[*PAF]

This sounds about right to me. The only questionable one there for mine would be Gill. Do we give him another go, probably not, but he is one of a couple there that could be gone.

There wont be anymore than 4 delists/retirements this year IMO, given the percieved weak draft.

No it's a "windy" suggestion.
Biglands is contracted till the end of 2008 according to your contracts thread so there is no way he can be delisted unless he decides to retire.

 

[Drummond]

No it's a "windy" suggestion.
Biglands is contracted till the end of 2008 according to your contracts thread so there is no way he can be delisted unless he decides to retire.

So Alan Obst retired last year eh?

 

[Campbell's Chunky]

No it's a "windy" suggestion.
Biglands is contracted till the end of 2008 according to your contracts thread so there is no way he can be delisted unless he decides to retire.

He can be delisted. He doesn't count on our playing list, but we have to keep paying him (in the salaray cap too) until his contract runs out.

I think we have Alan Obst in our salary cap becuase he was contracted for 2 years, but delisted after one.