Our Best 22

[Nicco_jj]

With Jolly, L.Brown, N.Brown, Caff, Johnson to return from injury, and Goldsack pushing for senior selection every week (along with Fasolo, Keefe and others) who do we drop to make way for them?

I think Wood is obviously going to get dropped eventually, but who does L.Brown push out of the side?
When Caff is fit n ready, will he be able to break in to the side again? who misses out to give him a go?

As for N.Brown coming back in, Reid and Tarrant won't get dropped (or shouldn't), so what happens? Will Brownie be played at FB and they give Taz a run in the forward line as third tall?

Blokes who will come under scrutiny IMO will be:
Blair, Dids, Buckley, J-Mac (and wood)

however, i think these guys have been good. Especially J-Mac and Buckley. They've really prooven some people wrong (so far). As for dids and blair, they're just starting to regain some good form, and don't deserve to be dropped.

so what do we do? If blokes who are good enough to be getting regular games at other clubs are stuck playing in the 2nd for collingwood, then do we risk having them leave? Players like Dick and Goldy might wanna move on...


So many questions. Please discuss.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Said it before and I'll say it again, gonna be scary to see this side when it gets all it's players back, and players like Didak, Swan and Maxwell find form.

Can only see McCarthy deserving to lose his spot.

Wood HAS to lose his sport unfortunately for Jolly. McCarthy can go out for L. Brown. After that? No idea. Buckley should NOT be dropped. Playing far to well and when utilised properly, is a press breaking weapon.

 

[Anth_5]

Wood for Jolly - no brainer.
Eventually Caff for Mccarthy - with Didak moving into a more midfield role when he gains the extra fitness in the 2nd half of the year.
I think Ben Johnson will eventually break back into the 22 and take Buckley's spot as he has better decision making ability then Buckely.
If Nathan Brown comes back, which is a huge if, I'd say that it would result in Tarrant moving forward and playign the third tall role, which would mean Leigh Brown would not make the 22, with Dawes playing the second ruckman role, like he did on Sunday. - I'm just not sure who Nathan Brown would push out of the side for this to happen.

So the 22 would look like this.

FB - Toovey N. Brown Obrien
HB - Shaw Reid Maxwell
C - Thomas Swan Wellingham
HF - Tarrant Cloke Didak
FF - Kraqouer Dawes Sidebottom
Foll - Jolly Pendlebury Ball

I/C - Beams Blair Davis Johnson


Hopefully I haven't missed anyone!
Edit: I left Macaffer out - Can't squeeze him in, I see Tarrant playing as a forward squeezes him out as Tarrant can play that lead up option that the Caff plays.

 

[Knightmare]

In a perfect world where everyone is 100% fit. I'd go with:

F: Andrew Krakouer Chris Dawes Steele Sidebottom
HF: Dayne Beams Travis Cloke Alan Didak
CEN: Dale Thomas Luke Ball Sharrod Wellingham
HB: Heath Shaw Ben Reid Harry O'Brien
B: Chris Tarrant Nathan Brown Alan Toovey
FOLL: Darren Jolly Scott Pendlebury Dane Swan
BENCH: Leon Davis Nick Maxwell Leigh Brown
Sub: Tyson Goldsack
EMG: Jarryd Blair Ben Johnson Brent Macaffer

Notes: As a sub I like Goldsack for flexibility, great height and can play forward or back comfortably. But I regard the 21 as the best 21 we could field.

Not certain Nathan Brown will get back to senior form so probably Jarryd Blair would get into the 21 for the finals instead. Macaffer + Johnson with injuries also it's hard to say there is a certain spot for. Macaffer certainly hasn't been in form this season due to limited preseason, Johnson has been good when playing early and would be incredibly close if he can get right for finals, in my books would be fighting it out with Blair for the final spot, but I give the edge to Blair.

Brad Dick I didn't list in the emergencies because his tackling hasn't been on this year as it has in years gone past, so doesn't deserve to be in the side based on what we have seen on his this season.

Players like Buckley and McCarthy get pushed out. Both have been ok at AFL level, but I don't regard either as best 22, certainly not best 22 when we have a 100% fit side (which never really can happen anyway).

 

[Nicco_jj]

hmmm, some good points from you guys... will be interesting to see what MM thinks.. I would be surprised to see Tarrant playing Back Pocket though.

I just don't think buckley should be dropped... Leigh Brown will struggle to break in to a fully fit team i think.

Its a fantastic problem to have, but a problem nonetheless.

If everyone 100% fit, i think you would have to say the grandfinal team from last year, but minus (someone???) for Tarrant. I dunno... its too hard...

If buckley and McCarthy aren't getting regular games by the end of the year i think they will request a trade, which might be a good time for us to trade them both for a top notch ruckmen along with cam wood.

Bare in mind that Nathan Brown will have put on a crap load of muscle weight during his time out of the team and will (like Tarrant) be quite capable of playing in the forward line. He is really fast and a good kick for goal - chuck him in the forward pocket (or half forward) for a game and see how he goes.... last time we tried it he kicked two goals and that was like a year or 2 ago...

Caff will take a while to get back. I think Johnson will unfortunately edge buckley out... but i would be really happy with bucks in the team. Brad Dick will not get back in to the side till next year (presuming he'll still be at collingwood).

Add to that the possibility of Fasolo and Keefe breaking in to the side.... if we didn't have 5 or so injuries both our seniors and VFL teams would be smashing teams by 100 points. VFL magpies are going to get some of the following playing more football with them possibly:
Johnson, McCarthy, Caff, L.Brown, N.Brown or Taz, Buckley, Blair, Dick, Goldy..............

We have not lost depth. We've just got some crap injuries.

 

[Nicco_jj]

Wood for Jolly - no brainer.
Eventually Caff for Mccarthy - with Didak moving into a more midfield role when he gains the extra fitness in the 2nd half of the year.
I think Ben Johnson will eventually break back into the 22 and take Buckley's spot as he has better decision making ability then Buckely.
If Nathan Brown comes back, which is a huge if, I'd say that it would result in Tarrant moving forward and playign the third tall role, which would mean Leigh Brown would not make the 22, with Dawes playing the second ruckman role, like he did on Sunday. - I'm just not sure who Nathan Brown would push out of the side for this to happen.

So the 22 would look like this.

FB - Toovey N. Brown Obrien
HB - Shaw Reid Maxwell
C - Thomas Swan Wellingham
HF - Tarrant Cloke Didak
FF - Kraqouer Dawes Sidebottom
Foll - Jolly Pendlebury Ball

I/C - Beams Blair Davis Johnson


Hopefully I haven't missed anyone!
Edit: I left Macaffer out - Can't squeeze him in, I see Tarrant playing as a forward squeezes him out as Tarrant can play that lead up option that the Caff plays.

I would say this is likely, but feel that MM would have a lot of confidence in L.Brown... so i dunno... maybe Taz gets dropped??? i would find this unlikely though... i think N.Brown will be the most unlikely to break in and they'll call it 'erring on the side of caution'....

With ur interchange... who's the sub? Blair? cause i don't think u would have beams, davis or johnson sub. I think Blair and Dids are the likely candidates for subs if we make the GF

 

[Knightmare]

hmmm, some good points from you guys... will be interesting to see what MM thinks.. I would be surprised to see Tarrant playing Back Pocket though.

I just don't think buckley should be dropped... Leigh Brown will struggle to break in to a fully fit team i think.

Its a fantastic problem to have, but a problem nonetheless.

If everyone 100% fit, i think you would have to say the grandfinal team from last year, but minus (someone???) for Tarrant. I dunno... its too hard...

If buckley and McCarthy aren't getting regular games by the end of the year i think they will request a trade, which might be a good time for us to trade them both for a top notch ruckmen along with cam wood.

Bare in mind that Nathan Brown will have put on a crap load of muscle weight during his time out of the team and will (like Tarrant) be quite capable of playing in the forward line. He is really fast and a good kick for goal - chuck him in the forward pocket (or half forward) for a game and see how he goes.... last time we tried it he kicked two goals and that was like a year or 2 ago...

Caff will take a while to get back. I think Johnson will unfortunately edge buckley out... but i would be really happy with bucks in the team. Brad Dick will not get back in to the side till next year (presuming he'll still be at collingwood).

Add to that the possibility of Fasolo and Keefe breaking in to the side.... if we didn't have 5 or so injuries both our seniors and VFL teams would be smashing teams by 100 points. VFL magpies are going to get some of the following playing more football with them possibly:
Johnson, McCarthy, Caff, L.Brown, N.Brown or Taz, Buckley, Blair, Dick, Goldy..............

We have not lost depth. We've just got some crap injuries.

I'd absolutely play Tarrant in the back pocket if N.Brown is right to go. Tarrant is great because he has the ability to play on talls or smalls. Could very easily take the 3rd tall without any issues. Much better down back than he is up forward. Has been a near AA FB over the past two seasons.

L.Brown is also important and would along with all the other talls get a game. Structurally he is important because he can play that 15% ruck time but also fit nicely into our forwardline to compliment Dawes + Cloke. Without L.Brown in the side we have seen a decline in production from Dawes + Cloke and I feel a big reason for this is not having L.Brown in the side as an extra tall helping them up forward.

Buckley + McCarthy would be great players to trade. But no certainty that there is much demand for either. McCarthy would be a great addition to the GWS midfield. And Buckley could possibly be an ok add for a team. But if either did get traded, it would only be for a useless late draft pick.

With ruckman the question is whether we get a 20-25 year old type with the intention of having them replace Jolly a bit like what we did with Wood to replace Fraser (which hasn't worked). Or whether we wait till Jolly retires and then trade into the best available ruckman on the market (which personally I am favouring at this stage - to give kids like Ceglar and possibly Witts if we get him through the NSW/ACT rookie program the greatest opportunity).

Our VFL team is very young and we absolutely would not be smashing (most teams) by 100 points. With the key retirements of Lockyer, O'Bree, Medhurst and Fraser moving to GCS we lost so much experience that even with a full list to choose from at VFL level we are only a boarderline top 8 side. The VFL league is played at a deceptively high standard and many VFL players are better than our AFL listed players because we have so many 1st year players who are still in the early stages of development. Fasolo + Keeffe though are amongst the more promising VFL players and might both get a game if they continue their fantastic form.

I would argue our best 22 on paper is better than it was in 2010, but certainly not our depth. Too much experience gone and you just can't make up that many games. But we still have a strong core group of 28-30 players to choose from which is still a strength for our senior side keeping our whole senior side accountable.

 

[Nicco_jj]

I'd absolutely play Tarrant in the back pocket if N.Brown is right to go. Tarrant is great because he has the ability to play on talls or smalls. Could very easily take the 3rd tall without any issues. Much better down back than he is up forward. Has been a near AA FB over the past two seasons.

L.Brown is also important and would along with all the other talls get a game. Structurally he is important because he can play that 15% ruck time but also fit nicely into our forwardline to compliment Dawes + Cloke. Without L.Brown in the side we have seen a decline in production from Dawes + Cloke and I feel a big reason for this is not having L.Brown in the side as an extra tall helping them up forward.

Buckley + McCarthy would be great players to trade. But no certainty that there is much demand for either. McCarthy would be a great addition to the GWS midfield. And Buckley could possibly be an ok add for a team. But if either did get traded, it would only be for a useless late draft pick.

With ruckman the question is whether we get a 20-25 year old type with the intention of having them replace Jolly a bit like what we did with Wood to replace Fraser (which hasn't worked). Or whether we wait till Jolly retires and then trade into the best available ruckman on the market (which personally I am favouring at this stage - to give kids like Ceglar and possibly Witts if we get him through the NSW/ACT rookie program the greatest opportunity).

Our VFL team is very young and we absolutely would not be smashing (most teams) by 100 points. With the key retirements of Lockyer, O'Bree, Medhurst and Fraser moving to GCS we lost so much experience that even with a full list to choose from at VFL level we are only a boarderline top 8 side. The VFL league is played at a deceptively high standard and many VFL players are better than our AFL listed players because we have so many 1st year players who are still in the early stages of development. Fasolo + Keeffe though are amongst the more promising VFL players and might both get a game if they continue their fantastic form.

I would argue our best 22 on paper is better than it was in 2010, but certainly not our depth. Too much experience gone and you just can't make up that many games. But we still have a strong core group of 28-30 players to choose from which is still a strength for our senior side keeping our whole senior side accountable.

yep, see ur point. i was very much over exaggerating the 100 point victory thing haha.
however if taz plays pocket then either tooves or davis are out. or....?

type the team that you would have go in to a GF right now - presuming there are no injuries

 

[Knightmare]

yep, see ur point. i was very much over exaggerating the 100 point victory thing haha.
however if taz plays pocket then either tooves or davis are out. or....?

type the team that you would have go in to a GF right now - presuming there are no injuries

This is the team I posted earlier in the thread.

F: Andrew Krakouer Chris Dawes Steele Sidebottom
HF: Dayne Beams Travis Cloke Alan Didak
CEN: Dale Thomas Luke Ball Sharrod Wellingham
HB: Heath Shaw Ben Reid Harry O'Brien
B: Chris Tarrant Nathan Brown Alan Toovey
FOLL: Darren Jolly Scott Pendlebury Dane Swan
BENCH: Leon Davis Nick Maxwell Leigh Brown
Sub: Tyson Goldsack
EMG: Jarryd Blair Ben Johnson Brent Macaffer

Personally I have no issue with the balance of this side because up forwad Cloke + Dawes play better with another mark target (L.Brown who is also critical to backup Jolly) and Tarrant can play different sizes down back, many clubs rest their no.2 ruckman forward, so Tarrant and N.Brown for this reason can co-excist along with Reid. Within this team it also appears to have an incredibly loaded backline. But remember our players have great flexibility (eg. Leon can play mid + forward also for short periods, Maxwell + Goldsack can play forward for short periods, Shaw can play up on a wing when he needs to) so I think this could be a very workable best 22.
Within the rotation you would also see plenty of rotating between the forwardline and midfield with Swan, Pendlebury and Thomas spending short periods up forward with Krakouer, Sidebottom, Didak and Beams all pushing into the midfield for periods.
It takes on a very similar image to the 2010 premiership side with an equally backline focused 2nd grand final side.

Changes to 2010 grand final (2nd grand final side)
IN: Chris Tarrant, Andrew Krakouer, Leon Davis
OUT: Ben Johnson, Brent Macaffer, Jarryd Blair

 

[mattys123]

I think who is in/out of our best 22 is almost irrelevant, simply because when it comes to September/October this year, we are going to have players injured, it's been guaranteed thanks to the new sub rule.

This is why Mick goes one about wanting 28-30 players to choose from, and I believe during last year's finals series when the VFL had finished we still had a squad of about 27 training week in, week out.

The same will happen this year, as the VFL ends a few weeks before the AFL finals begins (unless we play VFL finals which looks unlikely), so there's no doubt we will have a squad of 27-28 as our training squad throughout the finals.

Now, having said that, here's my absolute best 22; (Ignoring all injuries)

B: Toovey, N.Brown, O'Brien
HF: Maxwell, Reid, Shaw
C: Thomas, Ball, Wellingham
HF: Didak, Cloke, Beams
F: Krakouer, Dawes, Sidebottom
Foll: Jolly, Swan, Pendlebury
Int: Johnson, L.Brown, Davis, Tarrant

Emergencies: Blair, MaCaffer, Goldsack

I still firmly believe that if fit, Ben Johnson is in our best 15 players, let alone our best 22.

The side above also has a lot of versatility, with the likes of Tarrant, Leigh Brown and Davis all able to play back and forward (as well as 2nd ruck for Leeroy).

If we took that 22 into September, we would win the flag, of that I have no doubt.

 

[damuzzdu]

I think who is in/out of our best 22 is almost irrelevant, simply because when it comes to September/October this year, we are going to have players injured, it's been guaranteed thanks to the new sub rule.

This is why Mick goes one about wanting 28-30 players to choose from, and I believe during last year's finals series when the VFL had finished we still had a squad of about 27 training week in, week out.

The same will happen this year, as the VFL ends a few weeks before the AFL finals begins (unless we play VFL finals which looks unlikely), so there's no doubt we will have a squad of 27-28 as our training squad throughout the finals.

Now, having said that, here's my absolute best 22; (Ignoring all injuries)

B: Toovey, N.Brown, O'Brien
HF: Maxwell, Reid, Shaw
C: Thomas, Ball, Wellingham
HF: Didak, Cloke, Beams
F: Krakouer, Dawes, Sidebottom
Foll: Jolly, Swan, Pendlebury
Int: Johnson, L.Brown, Davis, Tarrant

Emergencies: Blair, MaCaffer, Goldsack

I still firmly believe that if fit, Ben Johnson is in our best 15 players, let alone our best 22.

The side above also has a lot of versatility, with the likes of Tarrant, Leigh Brown and Davis all able to play back and forward (as well as 2nd ruck for Leeroy).

If we took that 22 into September, we would win the flag, of that I have no doubt.

I will not waste posting space and just say... This

Matty you have hit the ball out the park yet again. Just about the perfect team. Pace, experience, players can play many positions...heck we could end up with 17 goalkickers....have to take skipper out he can only kick "goals" at the wrong end of the ground.

Win the flag - we would give it a massive shake with that team that is for sure...

 

[Jelly Bean]

In a perfect world where everyone is 100% fit. I'd go with:

F: Andrew Krakouer Chris Dawes Steele Sidebottom
HF: Dayne Beams Travis Cloke Alan Didak
CEN: Dale Thomas Luke Ball Sharrod Wellingham
HB: Heath Shaw Ben Reid Harry O'Brien
B: Chris Tarrant Nathan Brown Alan Toovey
FOLL: Darren Jolly Scott Pendlebury Dane Swan
BENCH: Leon Davis Nick Maxwell Leigh Brown
Sub: Tyson Goldsack
EMG: Jarryd Blair Ben Johnson Brent Macaffer

Notes: As a sub I like Goldsack for flexibility, great height and can play forward or back comfortably. But I regard the 21 as the best 21 we could field.

Not certain Nathan Brown will get back to senior form so probably Jarryd Blair would get into the 21 for the finals instead. Macaffer + Johnson with injuries also it's hard to say there is a certain spot for. Macaffer certainly hasn't been in form this season due to limited preseason, Johnson has been good when playing early and would be incredibly close if he can get right for finals, in my books would be fighting it out with Blair for the final spot, but I give the edge to Blair.

Brad Dick I didn't list in the emergencies because his tackling hasn't been on this year as it has in years gone past, so doesn't deserve to be in the side based on what we have seen on his this season.

Players like Buckley and McCarthy get pushed out. Both have been ok at AFL level, but I don't regard either as best 22, certainly not best 22 when we have a 100% fit side (which never really can happen anyway).

You don't have any rotating mids on the bench. It is a waste to have Maxwell taking up a bench spot, when these spots NEED to be filled by people who can come into the midfield and give people a rest. Even Brown would be looked to to change on into the forwardline instead of the bench for the most part to allow mids on the bench.

Similar for the sub. We generally don't use the sub for a flexible player, we use it for a midfielder who can come on late in the game and run through the middle. Someone like Blair, Krakouer, etc.

 

[Anth_5]

I would say this is likely, but feel that MM would have a lot of confidence in L.Brown... so i dunno... maybe Taz gets dropped??? i would find this unlikely though... i think N.Brown will be the most unlikely to break in and they'll call it 'erring on the side of caution'....

With ur interchange... who's the sub? Blair? cause i don't think u would have beams, davis or johnson sub. I think Blair and Dids are the likely candidates for subs if we make the GF

I would play Blair as the Sub in a best 22 scenario, although I would not be surprised if Davis is used as the sub as he can play at both ends, an advantage over Blair. But in saying that, Leon has been playing so well in his role down back I wouldn't want to unsettle this.

 

[shawthing09]

As others have said it's all good and well to play hypothetical but there is no certainty in regards to form and fitness.

There are a number of things that may happen. Firstly I don't think Goldsack is in our best 22 if we have a full side to choose from. Also people holding onto the ideal that a "utility" player is the ideal sub clearly haven't been paying attention. The sub has had minimal impact but there is literally nothing to gain from picking a versatile sub.

McCarthy, Buckley and Wood are the three most likely outs from my perfect world best 22. Macaffer, Jolly and Johnson come back in.

If N Brown was fit and ready this season (and that is doubtful) I'd suggest N Brown to full back. Tarrant to the forward line, Dawes to chop out in the ruck.

There is a core of players who I think are safe as houses. They are core of the backline Toovey, Harry, Tarrant, Reid, Maxwell

The core of the midfield Ball, Swan, Pendles, Thomas, Wellingham, Didak

The core of the forwardline Sidebottom, Cloke and Dawes

There are a fair few players not listed playing good footy who's spot in the side is safe, but I think the above names are so important to our structure that they are highly unlikely to be dropped ever.

 

[Quicky]

Presuming everyone is fit (excluding N Brown who we know is highly unlikely to return):

FB: ------O'Brien-----Tarrant-----Toovey-----
HB: -------Shaw-------Reid------Maxwell-----

C: -------Thomas-----Swan------Wellingham---
Fol: -------Jolly--------Ball-------Pendlebury---

HF: -------Didak-------Cloke-----Sidebottom---
FF: ------Krakouer-----Dawes-----Macaffer-----

Int: Brown, Davis, Beams Sub: Johnson

I think much of that team is self explanatory. Macaffer of course is the most contentious inclusion. Assuming he is fit I think he really provides us with a different type of forward option. As he is so good overhead and in contested situations I think he provides us with a genuine alternative to Cloke and Dawes and makes us less predictable. Provides the forwardline with better balance. His ability to win important one on ones I also think is crucial in finals games. For me he is a must provided he gets back from his injuries.

Davis pips Buckley and Goldsack as our seventh defensive player because his form has been so damn good.

 

[sr36]

As others have said it's all good and well to play hypothetical but there is no certainty in regards to form and fitness.

There are a number of things that may happen. Firstly I don't think Goldsack is in our best 22 if we have a full side to choose from. Also people holding onto the ideal that a "utility" player is the ideal sub clearly haven't been paying attention. The sub has had minimal impact but there is literally nothing to gain from picking a versatile sub.

McCarthy, Buckley and Wood are the three most likely outs from my perfect world best 22. Macaffer, Jolly and Johnson come back in.

If N Brown was fit and ready this season (and that is doubtful) I'd suggest N Brown to full back. Tarrant to the forward line, Dawes to chop out in the ruck.

There is a core of players who I think are safe as houses. They are core of the backline Toovey, Harry, Tarrant, Reid, Maxwell

The core of the midfield Ball, Swan, Pendles, Thomas, Wellingham, Didak

The core of the forwardline Sidebottom, Cloke and Dawes

There are a fair few players not listed playing good footy who's spot in the side is safe, but I think the above names are so important to our structure that they are highly unlikely to be dropped ever.

I agree with this one. I reckon there are about 15 or so who are definites and the the last 7 comes down to form, fitness, structure and game plan. The one thing that I disagree with is that I think that there is a distinct possibility that in the fit N. Brown scenario, resulting in Tarrant going forward, the match committee could easily opt to go with L. Brown over Dawes for the forward/ruck role. Thus I don't think that Dawes is 100% safe.

 

[Knightmare]

Disagree entirely with everyone who says Goldsack isn't the ideal sub.
Hasn't been used yet in that role from memory, but come grand final day I would absolutely take Goldsack as sub over anyone to inject into the game.

Versatility means he can cover anyone if early injury. But also the fact that he could come on half way through the final quarter is the other reason I would absolutely choose Goldsack. Along with Dale Thomas there is not a player who closes the game as hard and lifts as much when the game is on the line. Watch the intensity he plays the final minutes of any game. Watch the game he played against Geelong. Plays with that intensity to close the game consistantly.

This doesn't mean use him as sub during the H+A season. He needs to play full games during the season proper and the rotational policy for the season proper is the correct approach. But for the final two weeks of September I certainly would use Goldsack as sub because in this role he would in my view be the most effective player due to both his versatility but also his ability to close out games.

 

[sr36]

Disagree entirely with everyone who says Goldsack isn't the ideal sub.
Hasn't been used yet in that role from memory, but come grand final day I would absolutely take Goldsack as sub over anyone to inject into the game.

Versatility means he can cover anyone if early injury. But also the fact that he could come on half way through the final quarter is the other reason I would absolutely choose Goldsack. Along with Dale Thomas there is not a player who closes the game as hard and lifts as much when the game is on the line. Watch the intensity he plays the final minutes of any game. Watch the game he played against Geelong. Plays with that intensity to close the game consistantly.

This doesn't mean use him as sub during the H+A season. He needs to play full games during the season proper and the rotational policy for the season proper is the correct approach. But for the final two weeks of September I certainly would use Goldsack as sub because in this role he would in my view be the most effective player due to both his versatility but also his ability to close out games.

I don't really get Goldsack's supposed versatility. I can't recall him ever having much influence up forward or in the midfield. To me he is purely a medium defender and thus one of the least versatile players we've got. I do like the idea of injecting his incredible intensity late into a game, but would probably prefer a more attacking sub, who is going to get more of the ball. I'm pretty confident that come the finals our sub will be the last picked midefielder.

 

[magpiewarrior]

Just as an aside, the statements that several players, (JMac, Buckley, even the sack) should be traded or will want to be traded at seasons end, may well be wrong. With the Messiah taking over they may think that there is still a chance for them with us. I personally think that this is the best case scenario as they put the pressure on the players that are in the side, this is depth that so many clubs cannot maintain. Another reason why the Messiah will take the reins and we will benefit from it more than changing the plan now. MM knows this and that is why he will stand by his contract, he could be part of the greatest dynasty of the modern era.

 

[mattys123]

I don't really get Goldsack's supposed versatility. I can't recall him ever having much influence up forward or in the midfield. To me he is purely a medium defender and thus one of the least versatile players we've got.

I agree with this, I've never seen Goldsack as anything more then a half back flanker, to me, he is no more versatility then a Toovey, Maxwell or O'Brien, in fact Harry may be the most versatile of all of those, but he's needed down back so he doesn't get a chance up forward, well, ever.

I'd love to see Harry tried up forward maybe against one of the weaker teams (Melbourne, Gold Coast etc) because I think if Nathan Brown does come into the side later in the year (as unlikely as that is) Harry could be option number 2 behind Tarrant to move forward from the defensive half.

 

[SwanBet]

B: A.Toovey, C.Tarrant, N.Maxwell
HB: H.Shaw, B.Reid, H.Obrien
C: D.Thomas, L.Ball, S.Wellingham
HF: A.Didak, T.Cloke, S.Sidebottom
F: A.Krakouer, C.Dawes, J.Blair
R: D.Jolly, S.Pendlebury, D.Swan

I: L.Brown, L.Davis, B.Johnson Sub: D.Beams

E: B.Macaffer, T.Goldsack, S.Buckley

leaving J.Mcarthy, B.Dick, C.Wood, N.Brown sitting in the ressies.

That is phenomenal strength, i left Nathan Brown out because i simply don't see the club risking him, there is no urgent need for him to come back in, Tarrant is doing well enough.

Davis has done enough to justify his position in the team running of the half back, Benny Johnson still just ahead of goldsack and buckley if he gets his fitness right, as a defensive wing type player for mine. Buckley has been great, wouldn't be disappointed if he gets a gig, he and goldsack for that matter can roost the ball 60+ meters.

Beams makes it as a sub, I just view him as a game breaker, can go forward or through the midfield if required.

Macaffer just misses, loved him in GF2 but has lost the spark this year. Great thing for our team depth wise we have been able to give mcarthy and wood and even dick 4-5 straight in the AFL just adding depth to our side come september.

In the end it depends on the opposition we play, as mick has said he is a horses for courses man.

 

[Pie eyed]

Presuming everyone is fit (excluding N Brown who we know is highly unlikely to return):

FB: ------O'Brien-----Tarrant-----Toovey-----
HB: -------Shaw-------Reid------Maxwell-----

C: -------Thomas-----Swan------Wellingham---
Fol: -------Jolly--------Ball-------Pendlebury---

HF: -------Didak-------Cloke-----Sidebottom---
FF: ------Krakouer-----Dawes-----Macaffer-----

Int: Brown, Davis, Beams Sub: Johnson

I think much of that team is self explanatory. Macaffer of course is the most contentious inclusion. Assuming he is fit I think he really provides us with a different type of forward option. As he is so good overhead and in contested situations I think he provides us with a genuine alternative to Cloke and Dawes and makes us less predictable. Provides the forwardline with better balance. His ability to win important one on ones I also think is crucial in finals games. For me he is a must provided he gets back from his injuries.

Davis pips Buckley and Goldsack as our seventh defensive player because his form has been so damn good.

Have to say I agree with that list. Agree with your thoughts on McCafe as well.
That said, one of the great joys of season 2011 is who we have to leave out.
Those mentioned plus Macarthy, Dick and Blair all having shown they can come in.

 

[mdc]

I agree with this one. I reckon there are about 15 or so who are definites and the the last 7 comes down to form, fitness, structure and game plan. The one thing that I disagree with is that I think that there is a distinct possibility that in the fit N. Brown scenario, resulting in Tarrant going forward, the match committee could easily opt to go with L. Brown over Dawes for the forward/ruck role. Thus I don't think that Dawes is 100% safe.

16 touches, 2 goals and 4 tackles a game doesn't rate?

I'll also add that last year we had 111 points per game when he played, 94/game when he didn't. This year with Dawes getting more of the ball we're at 120 per game. It's no accident.

 

[sr36]

16 touches, 2 goals and 4 tackles a game doesn't rate?

I'll also add that last year we had 111 points per game when he played, 94/game when he didn't. This year with Dawes getting more of the ball we're at 120 per game. It's no accident.

Don't get me wrong. I rate Dawes. I just don't think that he is that far ahead of Leigh Brown at this stage of their careers. As many have suggested if N Brown comes back, Tarrant could become a tall forward. In this scenario selection would be between Dawes and Leigh Brown for a tall forward/back up ruck role. It's not out of the question that the match committee would go with Brown, particularly considering Dawes's recent form.

The stats that you quote ignore the fact that the games he missed were at the start of the year, before we got going, which could easily explain the lower scores in those games. I certainly don't think that Dawes offers the team a 26 point advantage like you are implying with those stats.

 

[mdc]

Don't get me wrong. I rate Dawes. I just don't think that he is that far ahead of Leigh Brown at this stage of their careers. As many have suggested if N Brown comes back, Tarrant could become a tall forward. In this scenario selection would be between Dawes and Leigh Brown for a tall forward/back up ruck role. It's not out of the question that the match committee would go with Brown, particularly considering Dawes's recent form.

The stats that you quote ignore the fact that the games he missed were at the start of the year, before we got going, which could easily explain the lower scores in those games. I certainly don't think that Dawes offers the team a 26 point advantage like you are implying with those stats.

Not implying a 26 point advantage, nor am I even implying the 17 point advantage of last year, simply that over a smallish sample size we've tended to score better with Dawes in (he also missed Rds 11 and 12 last year, fwiw).

All that was an aside more than anything - if you want more concrete stats take a look at his Champion Data score in 2011, where his 87.4 ranks ahead of Cloke, and most other KP forward in the competition bar a handful. Subjectively I reckon Cloke's had the slightly better year, but I would have thought Dawes is a lot closer to Cloke than to Leigh Brown.

In any case, I can't really imagine we'd re-jig our whole team to get Nate Brown in and push an in-form Tarrant to a foreign position, so this discussion's probably moot.