Our bottom six

[WAnchor]

With the bye upon us, it is too reminiscent of the 'off season'. Time for one of those 'list' threads.

Over on the main board, there's a thread on the team with the bottom six. Collingwood have obviously sown it up. Made me wonder, though, where we'd draw the line on the bottom six of our best 22. What follows is my effort. Thoughts?

If a Freo best 22 consisted of the following (as contentious as it is), I'd say that the bold would be bottom six.

B: Tendai Mzungu, Antoni Grover, Nic Suban

HB: Greg Broughton, Luke McPharlin, Paul Duffield

C: Nathan Fyfe, David Mundy, Adam McPhee

HF: Kepler Bradley, Christopher Mayne, Stephen Hill

F: Hayden Ballantyne, Alex Silvagni, Anthony Morabito

Foll: Aaron Sandilands, Matthew Pavlich, Garrick Ibbotson

I/C: Michael Barlow, Rhys Palmer, Matthew de Boer, Nick Lower

This 22 leaves out names like Michael Johnson, Jack Anthony, Ryan Crowley, Jay van Berlo, Michael Walters and Dylan Roberton, who could lay claim to being in best 22.

I must say that after Monday's game, I feel ruthless in omitting Van Berlo and placing bold around our Accidental Hero, Keplar.

Apologies to Pitt - just haven't quite seen enough yet.

Could be exciting times ahead for Freo.

 

[PurpleGreenRed]

With the bye upon us, it is too reminiscent of the 'off season'. Time for one of those 'list' threads.

Over on the main board, there's a thread on the team with the bottom six. Collingwood have obviously sown it up. Made me wonder, though, where we'd draw the line on the bottom six of our best 22. What follows is my effort. Thoughts?

If a Freo best 22 consisted of the following (as contentious as it is), I'd say that the bold would be bottom six.

B: Tendai Mzungu, Antoni Grover, Nic Suban

HB: Greg Broughton, Luke McPharlin, Paul Duffield

C: Nathan Fyfe, David Mundy, Adam McPhee

HF: Kepler Bradley, Christopher Mayne, Stephen Hill

F: Hayden Ballantyne, Alex Silvagni, Anthony Morabito

Foll: Aaron Sandilands, Matthew Pavlich, Garrick Ibbotson

I/C: Michael Barlow, Rhys Palmer, Matthew de Boer, Nick Lower

This 22 leaves out names like Michael Johnson, Jack Anthony, Ryan Crowley, Jay van Berlo, Michael Walters and Dylan Roberton, who could lay claim to being in best 22.

I must say that after Monday's game, I feel ruthless in omitting Van Berlo and placing bold around our Accidental Hero, Keplar.

Apologies to Pitt - just haven't quite seen enough yet.

Could be exciting times ahead for Freo.

Tendai Mzungu hasn't played a game yet and your apologising to Pitt cos you haven't seen enough of him yet. Roberton has been committed all season and he doesn't make the squad?

I fail to see the positives out of naming a bottom six in our squad. Start a new thread with a positive spin eh?

 

[WAnchor]

Nothing negative in my eyes. See, to me, this indicates the awesome depth that we have accumulated. I've read a bit which suggests that Collingwood's success can be attributes to how strong their entire 22 is - they don't rely on a few stars to carry them. This reminds me of how we're starting to look. In fact, Monday's game, with the great games played by VB and Keps, is further proof of this.

As I said, I knew my selections would be contentious and I am happy that you argue some of the names I suggested. To me, your argument proves my point that we're doing a darn good job in building a very strong playing group.

 

[Bender571]

You seem to have forgoten about Roger.

 

[PurpleGreenRed]

I have no doubt we have depth. Just that we have been crippled by injury.

Keps is one example of a player who arguably has played above expectations all season. Although he and Harves would probably argue that he's finally reached his potential.

I honestly see not a lot of positives in analysing our depth to the degree we pigeon hole players in terms of best 6/bottom 6. I think our strength lies in that when one player dips in a game another ups to cover the shortfall. McPharlin went so far to say that he couldn't have held Hall pointless and to 5 touches had the rest of the defence helped out.

Not sure what this thread really achieves tbh.

 

[TIME IS NOW]

Ridiculous thread.

As someone already mentioned how can you have Mzungu in best 22? when he hasnt played a game?

Really dumb thread.

 

[Sman-21]

Grover bottom 6?
He is holding up our defense with mcpharlin
Yes he will be gone in a year or 2 but he cannot be replaced right now therefore very important.
Ibbo fantastic on the weekend kicking was great an also ran back into packs putting body on the line. As good as Subans been ibbos game was better.

 

[Freosiren]

Grover not in our current best 22? Pffffftt!

 

[GordonGecko]

Good thread, constructive thread, enlightening thread.

Really makes you question who is fighting for their spot and the depth of the squad.

I'd suggest Roberton is in the best 22 comfortably.

Id bet my bottom dollar if Mzungu plays a couple of good games in the WAFL upon return he'll slot straight into Broughton position, Broughton to the middle.

One of Palmer or Lower will go out.

Certainly getting tougher to spot the weak links.

At the moment I'd say they are Palmer, Crowley and Johnson.

 

[Belnakor]

Crowley, Johnson, Mayne, Pitt, Lower and De Boer would be our bottom 6 from a nominal "starting 22"

 

[Freodoc]

Crowley, Johnson, Mayne, Pitt, Lower and De Boer would be our bottom 6 from a nominal "starting 22"

You jest surely?!?

 

[Alfonz]

Well, by Rd 1 of next year I think/hope the changes from the team on the weekend could be something like this (ignoring retirements/drafting/trading, and assuming Pitt continues to improve):

OUT: Johnson, Crowley, Crichton, Lower, Palmer, Van Berlo
IN: Silvagni, Suban, Mzungu, Broughton, Barlow, Morabito

Gives us a fairly substantial increase in players who can impact games. Down a defensive mid maybe, but I prefer to have a whole team of ball winners/users who can hurt with their disposal. If one needs to sacrifice touches for a defensive role then so be it, they couldn't do any worse than Crowley.

 

[WAnchor]

To further indicate how strong our current 22 is, consider the below names:
Ryan Murphy, Steven Dodd, Matthew Carr, Shaun McManus, Byron Schammer, Brett Peake, Luke Webster.

Whilst the above were at times great servants to our club, it is interesting to note that they were all in the best 22 of our 2006 prelim final against Sydney.

 

[samseenee]

Crowley, Johnson, Mayne, Pitt, Lower and De Boer would be our bottom 6 from a nominal "starting 22"

You jest surely?!?

+ 1000000000

 

[Seppo]

Bottom six from our current starting 22:

1. Michael Johnson
2. Michael Johnson
3. Michael Johnson
4. Michael Johnson
5. Ryan Crowley
6. Michael Johnson



*Disclaimer: For all #37 lovers, no Michael Johnsons were harmed in the making of this list.

 

[Kenny_01]

Crowley, Johnson, Mayne, Pitt, Lower and De Boer would be our bottom 6 from a nominal "starting 22"

Dumbest post of the year. Mayne would be in the first 10 picked easily and De Boer not far behind. Mayne is so critical to our structure and provides a good forward target while having extremely good defensive pressure which is one aspect we try to excel in. De Boer is tough as nails and has been released from the fwd line as a defensive specialist. He was excellent on the weekend again with his work at stoppages and hardness at the ball.

 

[valkorum]

What I am getting from this post is that it is getting harder to pick our bottom 6 players. Which IMO is a good thing

 

[Seppo]

What I am getting from this post is that it is getting harder to pick our bottom 6 players. Which IMO is a good thing

valid point there Valko, I am finding it harder this year to pick the 'hacks' we have to include in the team.

The thread should have been more accurately titled:
Which player makes you cringe/sweat when they have possesion?

Last few years its been:
Murphy, Dodd, Schammer, Peake and dare I say it now; Deboer!

Now for me in the past few weeks its only been Johnson and to some degree McPhee from set shots (much improved kicking eff from last year).

I could make a list of a bottom 6 that is purely based on 16 players that have better skills, but that is pointless. If a team of 22 can work with each other, cover for players that are having an off day and still collect the 4 points, i can't see anything wrong with that...

 

[E Shed]

Grover? Seriously?
He's practically in career best form and even getting kudos from the Melbourne press as one of the best defenders in the comp.
FFS, I know being old is sin around here but that is just wow.

 

[Clay Davis]

Van Berlo, Pitt, Lower.

That's all I can think of. We've used 25 players this season, those three are the only ones to be dropped. Yet all have contributed.

You could make arguments about Johnson and Crowley based on output so far.

Barlow and Morabito are the only two waiting in the wings who haven't played yet who will demand a return. I would say our 15th to 25th best players are broadly equal.

 

[Freo Blood]

Good thread - no harm in debating these things. Don't feel bad for those bottom six because they are above those left out of the team. The idea is to determine the bottom six and then comment on how strong they are in comparison to other teams and our past.

For mine I think Grover holding down a key defensive must be ahead of many listed. Also Mzungu can not be included, especially against the likes of Ibbo. Silvagni also is a bit of an inbetweener for me.

So bold Mz in place of Ibbo and Silv in place of Grover. MJ in place of Lower and Suban in place of McPhee.

My bottom six therefore:
Silvagni
Keplar
Mzungu
MJ
Suban
Rhys

 

[Nickos66]

If a Freo best 22 consisted of the following (as contentious as it is), I'd say that the bold would be bottom six.

B: Tendai Mzungu, Antoni Grover, Nic Suban

HB: Greg Broughton, Luke McPharlin, Paul Duffield

C: Nathan Fyfe, David Mundy, Adam McPhee

HF: Kepler Bradley, Christopher Mayne, Stephen Hill

F: Hayden Ballantyne, Alex Silvagni, Anthony Morabito

Foll: Aaron Sandilands, Matthew Pavlich, Garrick Ibbotson

I/C: Michael Barlow, Rhys Palmer, Matthew de Boer, Nick Lower

o.

My bottom 6 from this 22 would be:

Mzungu
Suban
Silvagni
Ibbotson
Palmer
Lower

Certainly not a bad 6 to have in the side!! Compare it to the Saints bottom 6. :S

 

[Dormammu]

If you're going to create a thread like this then at least try and set some measures.

I mean, what's the criteria? Leg speed, age, kicking accuracy, aerobic capacity, ability to win the contested ball? Or any one of a dozen or so other measures?

And if it's an overall assessment, then rank your preferred measures, or better still weight them.

Not saying it has to be a CSIRO scientific study, just something that you can base an argument on, rather than the gut feel you get from watching a game from one camera angle, or a certain seat at the ground, or from listening to a particular radio station.

And you might also give some thought to the size of the list - some players will be brought in for certain games/specific opponents or match day conditions e.g., Lower being dropped because there wasn't a clear match-up, or a tall being dropped for a small and vice versa.

 

[Freo Blood]

How about you choose your first 16 selected players and the next six selected are the bottom 6 of the 22. I think that is scientific enough!!!

 

[Clay Davis]

If you're going to create a thread like this then at least try and set some measures.

I mean, what's the criteria? Leg speed, age, kicking accuracy, aerobic capacity, ability to win the contested ball? Or any one of a dozen or so other measures?

And if it's an overall assessment, then rank your preferred measures, or better still weight them.

Not saying it has to be a CSIRO scientific study, just something that you can base an argument on, rather than the gut feel you get from watching a game from one camera angle, or a certain seat at the ground, or from listening to a particular radio station.

Why don't you start?