Our Defence

[kelvin_sheedy]

New topic born out of the thread by MWNN. being hijacked..

In terms of our defensive structure. I'm not sure how we can go into a game and expect to win when we have the following.

(Age, games)

Pears(19,9) Daniher(19,6) Slattery(23,56)
Dempsey(21,14) Fletcher(1000, 999) Quinn (19, 2)

Way too inexperienced and young. We need stronger bodies to help the kids out.

 

[ant555]

What stronger body tall defenders do we have to change that ??
Easy to say they are way too young but who do you bring in ?
NLM who has proven to be a disapointment in the back half before or who else ?
The next in line on form is Hooker.

 

[saladin]

we need hurley back. his one game and 19years should fix it

 

[BringBackCransberg]

It (including Myers) did pretty well against Freo and Carlton. We didn't lose today because of our backline. Our skills, inaccuracy and the fact that we didn't want the win as bad as NM -- they were the problems.

There did seem to be a lot of strong marks by NM in their forward 50, but (I'm no expert) our gameplan seems to be focused on other things, and when that gameplan comes off it doesn't require us to worry so much about that sort of thing. Of course it can't be forgotten, but we don't yet have the experience to dominate every aspect of the game. And right now the kids are getting that experience, whilst not, IMO, costing us games now. It's other things. We could've easily won with the side on the paddock today. That's obvious I reckon.

 

[OzBomber]

New topic born out of the thread by MWNN. being hijacked..

In terms of our defensive structure. I'm not sure how we can go into a game and expect to win when we have the following.

(Age, games)

Pears(19,9) Daniher(19,6) Slattery(23,56)
Dempsey(21,14) Fletcher(1000, 999) Quinn (19, 2)

Way too inexperienced and young. We need stronger bodies to help the kids out.

Awesome, can't wait to see Fletch play his 1000th game this week.

 

[Jono B]

With a full squad we could probably afford to put McVeigh back there. But we need him at the coal face to give Jobe support ATM.

I would not be too aggressive with the changes anyway, as we need the backline to become a group and that only happens when they play games as a group.

 

[bOmBeR_BoY1]

I actually think our defensive structure has improved dramatically compared with last year, despite what people may think regarding the age & experience of the players playing down there... and may improve further once Hurley returns (big wraps on a kid who has played the 1 game, granted, but the guy is a gem)...

I know we lost today, but I think it was more due to errors (not just defensive, but all around the ground, particularly goal kicking) but we restricted North to 10 goals in perfect conditions when they got a lot more of the ball (we had more scoring shots and really should of polished them off and perhaps had a win, but that's another story). In the first four games, we are in the top 5 or 6 defensively for points conceded, this time last year I am pretty sure we were lingering right near the bottom. It's only early, but a good start. We will go places quicker with a more sound defensive structure than allowing our opposition to kick 20-25 goals per game and hoping we kick 26.

The forward line, in my opinion, seems to be a bigger concern right at the moment. Particularly a couple of our more experienced players who may need a break elsewhere to recapture some form. No need to name names.

 

[warney7]

How exactly is this a new topic?

We ALL know that our defence is young and inexperienced.
We ALL know that it is vital that Fletcher plays on in 2010
We ALL hope that these kids (Hurley, Pears, Daniher, Myers, Dempsey) are good enough to be a Premiership Defence down the track.

It's all a matter of time, and there's no other option but to keep playing the kids.

 

[james_omahoney]

Useless thread.

 

[yaco55]

New topic born out of the thread by MWNN. being hijacked..

In terms of our defensive structure. I'm not sure how we can go into a game and expect to win when we have the following.

(Age, games)

Pears(19,9) Daniher(19,6) Slattery(23,56)
Dempsey(21,14) Fletcher(1000, 999) Quinn (19, 2)

Way too inexperienced and young. We need stronger bodies to help the kids out.

Are you anally retentive.

EFC didn't lose the game because of our backline.

I guarantee that if EFC hold teams to 10 goals every week, they will at least 17 to 18 wins.

 

[Kong]

Useless thread.

I'll co-sign that.
Kelvin_Sheedy, I am actually going to agree with ant555 on this one; you continually mention the negatives within the team, yet offer no solution. Who are these older, more experienced and stronger players you suggest we bring in?
I only watched and listened to parts of the game today, so I can't comment too much (unlike some, I believe in seeing a game before forcing my opinion on it to others), but from what I heard it sounded as though our general field kicking was what let us down; not our backline.

 

[stay true]

New topic born out of the thread by MWNN. being hijacked..

In terms of our defensive structure. I'm not sure how we can go into a game and expect to win when we have the following.

(Age, games)

Pears(19,9) Daniher(19,6) Slattery(23,56)
Dempsey(21,14) Fletcher(1000, 999) Quinn (19, 2)

Way too inexperienced and young. We need stronger bodies to help the kids out.

The more games we get into these kids the better. I see no reason why we shouldn't persist with them.

It's not like it was their fault we lost to North. They consistantly got let down by their team mates who turned the ball over on too many occasions.

 

[Bomberlicious]

I guarantee that if EFC hold teams to 10 goals every week, they will at least 17 to 18 wins.

Seconded.

If you kept a team to 69 points every game, you'd concede 1518 points for the year, which is 252 points less than in 2000 when we destroyed everyone.

Thanks for the evocative thery, kelvin

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

What stronger body tall defenders do we have to change that ??
Easy to say they are way too young but who do you bring in ?
NLM who has proven to be a disapointment in the back half before or who else ?
The next in line on form is Hooker.

NLM has played some good footy down back. Are we forgetting that or we just hanging him out to dry for being played out of position in the second half of last year.

His stronger body could make the difference and provide a better contest then some of the kids.

As for the the others that think our defence is ok then look at the goals yesterday. North kicked 10 and of those 9 came from marks. Pretty lopsided and it highlights their games plan.

What people don't understand in this thread is we didn't keep em down to 69. They kept us down and won the game. It was brilliant work by Laidley. He knew he couldnt' go head to head with us and decided to exploit our weakness. Slowed the game right down and then relied on his big guys to outmuscle our defenders.

As for selections well we either have to play NLM down back or look at McVeigh back there in a Hodge type role. Stronger bodies next to the kids makes them more confident.

 

[ant555]

NLM has played some good footy down back. Are we forgetting that or we just hanging him out to dry for being played out of position in the second half of last year.

His stronger body could make the difference and provide a better contest then some of the kids.

As for the the others that think our defence is ok then look at the goals yesterday. North kicked 10 and of those 9 came from marks. Pretty lopsided and it highlights their games plan.

What people don't understand in this thread is we didn't keep em down to 69. They kept us down and won the game. It was brilliant work by Laidley. He knew he couldnt' go head to head with us and decided to exploit our weakness. Slowed the game right down and then relied on his big guys to outmuscle our defenders.

As for selections well we either have to play NLM down back or look at McVeigh back there in a Hodge type role. Stronger bodies next to the kids makes them more confident.

NLM has played some very poor footy down back as well.
I do not know why you are pinning your hopes on Natrat. He can be just as big of a problem in defence as Nash can be.
You have offered up one name that has a checkered history as a defender.

I do not know how you can even say it was a brilliant effort by Laidley.
If our kicking efficiency was even 5% better we win the game.

 

[SirJimi05]

NLM has played some good footy down back. Are we forgetting that or we just hanging him out to dry for being played out of position in the second half of last year.

His stronger body could make the difference and provide a better contest then some of the kids.

I think i have said this on more than one occasion now but i will say it again. You are losing the plot, if in infact it isn't already lost.

a. Our defence is the least of our concerns at the monent. We are not going to be challenging for a flag anytime soon so it is important that we get games into the youngsters and i think we can safely say that Pears, Daniher and Hurley have all shown promising signs.

b. NLM is not a defenders arseh*le. He is weak ass piss, way to loose, and then when he does manage to find his opponents he is easily pushed out of the contest or fails to even make any contact with the man or the ball. I am absolutely shocked that you think he is a decent defender. Sure, he goes ok as a forward but a defender? Get off the drugs.

This is almost as bad as your call last season where you rubbished me for starting a thread saying that Michael is finished and needs to be dropped and then 2 weeks later he was out of the team for good.

Instead of always getting stuck into our youngsters why dont you take a close look at the senior players who should be leading the way.

Lucas has been a champ and i love the guy but i dont think we can make excuses for him any longer and i dont know how long Knights patient approach can last. He is a liability to the team at the moment and i would rather see a young kid such as Hooker have a crack and get some game time.

 

[james_omahoney]

a. Our defence is the least of our concerns at the monent. We are not going to be challenging for a flag anytime soon so it is important that we get games into the youngsters and i think we can safely say that Pears, Daniher and Hurley have all shown promising signs.

b. NLM is not a defenders arseh*le. He is weak ass piss, way to loose, and then when he does manage to find his opponents he is easily pushed out of the contest or fails to even make any contact with the man or the ball. I am absolutely shocked that you think he is a decent defender. Sure, he goes ok as a forward but a defender? Get off the drugs.

This is almost as bad as your call last season where you rubbished me for starting a thread saying that Michael is finished and needs to be dropped and then 2 weeks later he was out of the team for good.

I pretty much agree that our defence is the least of our worries and that NLM isn't an alternative. I felt the same about Michael too.

 

[Yoda_]

Well who are we going to play down back then Kelvin_Sheedy.

Have a look at all our defenders:

Jarrod Atkinson, 24 y.o, 5 games, 192cm, 81kg,
Darcy Daniher, 19 y.o, 7 games, 191cm, 89kg,
Courtenay Dempsey, 21 y.o, 14 games, 186cm, 82kg,
Dustin Fletcher, 34 y.o, 298games, 198cm, 93kg,
Michael Hurley, 18 y.o, 2 games, 193cm, 91kg,
Cale Hooker, 20 y.o, 2 games, 196cm, 93kg,
Nathan Lovett-Murray, 26 y.o, 85 games, 190cm, 85kg,
David Myers, 19 y.o, 9 games, 190cm, 85kg,
Jay Nash, 23 y.o, 45 games, 188cm, 84kg,
Tayte Pears, 19 y.o, 9 games, 191,cm, 91kg,
Patrick Ryder, 20 y.o, 56 games, 197cm, 90kg,
Tyson Slattery, 18 y.o, 189cm, 81kg,
Henry Slattery, 23 y.o, 56 games, 185cm, 86kg,

Out of all those players who do you play with real genuine experience, there is no one there (bar Fletcher) who has played in defence at AFL level on a consistant basis, and done well.

Your explanation of NLM is flawed and he has let the team down on occasions, he is just going to be a gap filler this year, and when the likes of T.Slattery, J.Atkinson, D.Daniher, C.Hooker come into their own as utilities, it would not sadden me to see the back of him.

One thing that Matthew Knights has implored is the growing of youth, especially with the defensive back 6, yes Fletcher is still our best defender at 34, but the other "kids" have not really had a go there, so get games into them and see them grow Kelvin_Sheedy, it may actually surprise you to see the improvement in these kids, hopefully sooner rather than later in life

NOTE: it is hard to get games into Jay Neagle and Scott Gumbleton when they are injured or do not warrant selection.

 

[Spikey]

I would think the bigger problem with our defence is some of them (Pears, Slatts & Quinn) are not exactly the best of kicks...

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Your explanation of NLM is flawed and he has let the team down on occasions, he is just going to be a gap filler this year, and when the likes of T.Slattery, J.Atkinson, D.Daniher, C.Hooker come into their own as utilities, it would not sadden me to see the back of him.

Like I said already - NLM must play for strength or experience or we need to use McVeigh in a sweeper type role.

As for him being a gap filler then what makes you think any of those kids listed will be better than him. He has played better footy then all of them. The likely hood is only one, maybe 2 will make it.

Why do people assume kids will automatically be better than players we have.

I can recall people saying the same about Ryder being our next best ruck, Gumby our saviour, Myers our elite mid and rubbishing the likes of Stanton, Watson, Winderlich, etc, etc.

 

[Yoda_]

Like I said already - NLM must play for strength or experience or we need to use McVeigh in a sweeper type role.

As for him being a gap filler then what makes you think any of those kids listed will be better than him. He has played better footy then all of them. The likely hood is only one, maybe 2 will make it.

Why do people assume kids will automatically be better than players we have.

I can recall people saying the same about Ryder being our next best ruck, Gumby our saviour, Myers our elite mid and rubbishing the likes of Stanton, Watson, Winderlich, etc, etc.

I never said that at all, how do we know if they are no good if we dont give them game time... NatRat gives a contest but it is his decison making, not just with the ball in his hands but also when he doesnt that costs the team.

 

[daffo]

I think we need to play another stronger body down back. What lost us the game yesterday was our kicking efficiency, but 2nd was our defence. There were at least eight-ten times were Daniher/Pears got outmarked where if Ryder/Fletcher were in that position they would of spoiled.
Where that body comes from is another matter, I have liked us playing Ryder forward but against the kanga/blues he hasn't shown much. IMO he doesn't get enough of the ball in the forward line. Knights said that he wanted Ryder up forward, which I did agree with, but with Hurley getting injured then Myers finding himself in the 2nds, I don't think Knights reacted properly. If Fletcher played on Hale and Ryder went to Petrie then I think we would of won.
McPhee is our other option but I feel as though he is doing enough in roaming up the flanks. He is a much better player in the forward line.

 

[daffo]

Oh, and I don't want NLM back in our side, he doesn't fit our game style at all. All he does is chip 20m kicks sideways and is crappy in 1-1 contests.

 

[Jaymin]

I can handle Daniher/Pears getting outmarked as they are young and dont have the strength.

However, does anyone remember the play where Daniher was rebounding on the 50m line...we turned it over and instead of Daniher running back to pick up his man who was standing in the goal square by himself, he followed the ball back into the centre of the ground. Kangaroos got the ball and kicked it straight down to his man (I think it was Hale at the time).

That was perplexing.

 

[Jaymin]

Oh, and I don't want NLM back in our side, he doesn't fit our game style at all. All he does is chip 20m kicks sideways and is crappy in 1-1 contests.

Surely him or Atkinson is a better option than Quinn at this stage.