Our Future Midfield

[mdc]

Don't agree with your potential for Wellingham at all. I think he has more natural talent than just about any of our mids. I would give him a 9 or even 9.5 potential, just with less chance of reaching that potential than someone like Pendlebury (although so far this season he's done a good job of getting closer to it). There is no other midfielder in our side that is as good a mark and kick and with as much pace, athleticism, poise under pressure and inside ability as he has. He still has to work on decision making and concentration, but he has more physical and technical skills than any other mid on our list. I've said this for the last 2 years but didn't think he would put it together, happy he is finally starting to do just that.

The more I watch football, the more I think that things like effort, decision-making and concentration cannot be learnt, and must in fact be treated like any other talent. Thus the 8 for Wellingham. On a given night, he might well be close to a 9.5, but I don't see him as having the potential to do it consistently over season/s.

That said, he has started this season very well, and his hands below the knees while running at pace are absolutely ridiculous.

 

[robertg22]

Good thread guys.
I was excited before Friday's game because I thought the future of our midfield was on show. We were beaten (soundly) but still think there's a good core group there.
Wellingham is significantly further ahead of Macaffer both in current output and potential. He could even be leading the Copeland currently.
I still think we need an outside runner with good finishing skills. Wellingham has this ability but plays more of an inside role most of the time.
I wonder if we can combine Barham's speed with Sidebottom's foot skills? lol

 

[Brent24]

This deserves a Winty award nomination. Bad call Gary, terrible call.

Haha. Particularly Blight, probably has the most potential of any of our youngsters.

 

[alfiiee]

No mention of Blair either.
Very consistent year last year.
tough, fast, skillful and hopefully still growing.

Was the leading ball winner again for the 2's on the weekend with 24 touches and laid an outstanding 10 tackles.
Tackling is playing a bigger role in footy as time goes on.
Will definitely get his chance..

 

[daneswan36]

Wellingham will soon be my favorite player if he keeps his form up.

I love how he is so clean when he is in traffic.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

The more I watch football, the more I think that things like effort, decision-making and concentration cannot be learnt, and must in fact be treated like any other talent.

I am at least a partial subscriber to this theory too. I agree they are talents, or abilities, but I think they are perhaps less absolute than say, pace or athleticism at the elite level which you seem to either have or not have. Concentration, I believe, can be trained. Effort and decision-making I feel are more innate.

No mention of Blair either.
Very consistent year last year.
tough, fast, skillful and hopefully still growing.

Was the leading ball winner again for the 2's on the weekend with 24 touches and laid an outstanding 10 tackles.
Tackling is playing a bigger role in footy as time goes on.
Will definitely get his chance..

I think he played very well on the weekend, and his 10 tackles were phenomenal. Obviously there was a lot of chasing tail in the first half, but Blair got plenty of the ball and used it really well. I'm not so sure he'll get his opportunity though. Wait and see, I guess.

 

[didak#4]

I have 2 main points to make.

Firstly I really like wellingham but he will not get to the next level until he improves his kicking and decision making by foot. He isn't damaging enough.

Secondly, I hope I'm wrong but McCarthy appears to be heading down a very similar road to many of our other very highly rated young players of the past, eg Stanley, cook, egan and the list goes on. They dominate in cfl and just look out of place in the big league. However I still have hope for him.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Consistent game time.
Consistent game time.
Consistent game time.

McCarthy, Dawes, MacAffer, Reid... none of them can be assessed even remotely accurately until they get it.

 

[didak#4]

Between the 4 of them they have played around 25 to 30 games. You would think one of those 25 to 30 games would have been a really good one.

 

[1eye]

My addittion to the thread is that our future coach needs to be our midfield coach NOW.

Not sure what training he is getting coaching the forward line. Play to your strengths.

 

[The Sqawka]

This deserves a Winty award nomination. Bad call Gary, terrible call.

I tell you what.. remember this statement and difference of opinion, because I truly dont think they will ever become premier midfielders, and i think history shows, premiership clubs are riddled with A grade midfielders.

Blight may have been a bad call, and perhaps i jumped the gun on that one. But the others just don't impress me at all. Macaffer gets in the wrong positions, he is slow to react, and seems a fish out of Water. McCarthy fumbles the ball everytime he gets near it, he falls over and cant keep his feet, whilst his decision making is useless. Now you cant blame a lack of game time for their output to date. If you cant break into our sides best 22, how can you be rated a high future prospect. Macaffer was put on our rookie list in the 2007 Rookie Draft, therefore this is his forth season with the club. McCarthy was taken in the 2007 Draft proper which means this is his third season now.

Lets comprare these players to other players in their 3rd and 4th seasons.
To be even fairer I will leave out top 10 draft picks Gibbs, Selwood, Boak, Cotchin, Cale Morton, Armitage etc etc

Cyril Rioli
Brad Ebert
Jack Grimes
Andy Otten
Callan Ward
Chris Mayne
Brad Dalziell
Ricky Petterd
Alwyn Davey
Robbie Gray
Josh Hill
Nathan Krakouer
Leroy Jetta

And the list goes on.. Macaffer and Jmac are just simply no where near any of the players mentioned above. so to state it again...

IMO Macaffer, Cook, McCarthy are fill in players and will never gain a position into our midfield which will lead us forward to premiership glory..

I retract the addition of Blight, however it must be said he doesn't seem close to senior selection, and really good midfielders usually get games early in their career (Otten, Rich, Yarran, Zaharakis, S.Hill, Rioli, Ziebel, Hannebery) they don't sit on a list for 2 years without forcing their way into selection considerations on a weekly basis. (However I am aware Jarrad Blight is only in his second year at the club, but he is miles of passing Sidey or Beamsy at the selection table, so its hard to have him in our future midfield hence why i put him on my list of players to not reach their potential)

 

[E Returns]

Simply we are lacking that midfielder who has it all. Pace/hard ball gets/disposal etc, eg a Ablett/Judd/Hayes/Hodge. Obv they are not easy to find though.

Can't see that changing anytime soon.

I firmly believe that Dale Thomas is the one who can become that player. he has it all and is tracking like gary Ablett did at similar age. He has been in the midfield more this year than previously and has had some really good moments this year. I imagine him finishing this year in the same sentence as Pendlebury and then establishing himself as our star midfelder next year!

 

[Invigoration]

I tell you what.. remember this statement and difference of opinion, because I truly dont think they will ever become premier midfielders, and i think history shows, premiership clubs are riddled with A grade midfielders.

Blight may have been a bad call, and perhaps i jumped the gun on that one. But the others just don't impress me at all. Macaffer gets in the wrong positions, he is slow to react, and seems a fish out of Water. McCarthy fumbles the ball everytime he gets near it, he falls over and cant keep his feet, whilst his decision making is useless. Now you cant blame a lack of game time for their output to date. If you cant break into our sides best 22, how can you be rated a high future prospect. Macaffer was put on our rookie list in the 2007 Rookie Draft, therefore this is his forth season with the club. McCarthy was taken in the 2007 Draft proper which means this is his third season now.

Lets comprare these players to other players in their 3rd and 4th seasons.
To be even fairer I will leave out top 10 draft picks Gibbs, Selwood, Boak, Cotchin, Cale Morton, Armitage etc etc

Cyril Rioli
Brad Ebert
Jack Grimes
Andy Otten
Callan Ward
Chris Mayne
Brad Dalziell
Ricky Petterd
Alwyn Davey
Robbie Gray
Josh Hill
Nathan Krakouer
Leroy Jetta

And the list goes on.. Macaffer and Jmac are just simply no where near any of the players mentioned above. so to state it again...

IMO Macaffer, Cook, McCarthy are fill in players and will never gain a position into our midfield which will lead us forward to premiership glory..

I retract the addition of Blight, however it must be said he doesn't seem close to senior selection, and really good midfielders usually get games early in their career (Otten, Rich, Yarran, Zaharakis, S.Hill, Rioli, Ziebel, Hannebery) they don't sit on a list for 2 years without forcing their way into selection considerations on a weekly basis. (However I am aware Jarrad Blight is only in his second year at the club, but he is miles of passing Sidey or Beamsy at the selection table, so its hard to have him in our future midfield hence why i put him on my list of players to not reach their potential)

Your initial statement wasn't that none of them would become premier midfielders, if it was, I would have agreed. None of them probably will, but that's probably more due to the fact that none of them are midfielders, not genuine ones anyway.

Your initial statement was 'none of them would be part of a premiership team'. Which is absolutely ludicrous and right up there with the stupidest statements I've read on this website.

The rest of your post isn't much better either, I mean, you've cited Alwyn Davey and Leroy Jetta as yardsticks for **** sake... It isn't even worth rebutting the post.
Your description of Macaffer at AFL level is so far off the mark I get the feeling you are just making shit up to try and support your argument.

Anyway, this is going to derail the thread and there's no need for it. Time will tell the tale for all 3 of those boys, but there is no substance behind writing them this early.

Dane Swan, Harry O'Brien, Heath Shaw, the list goes on. The same judgment was passed on all these guys back at the same points in their respective careers, we all know how that turned out.

 

[vampies]

Our Midfield did not let us down. It was accuracy on goal, plain and simple

 

[Quicky]

I am at least a partial subscriber to this theory too. I agree they are talents, or abilities, but I think they are perhaps less absolute than say, pace or athleticism at the elite level which you seem to either have or not have. Concentration, I believe, can be trained. Effort and decision-making I feel are more innate.

I think concentration has been Wellinghams issue. This I agree can be improved. I think at the elite level improved fitness helps a lot with concentration, and probably decision making too. It's hard to maintain focus and make the right decision consistently when you're f'd.

Consistent game time.
Consistent game time.
Consistent game time.

McCarthy, Dawes, MacAffer, Reid... none of them can be assessed even remotely accurately until they get it.

Agreed. And considering some of the bad performances from senior players like Lockyer, O'Bree, Fraser etc and Johnsons injury really there should be room in the team for a few of them at least.

 

[4#Didak#4]

I thought the final against Adelaide was a good glimpse of what Sidebottom can bring to the side. I love McCarthy however he has not shown anything to get very excited about yet. He has the package, but can he put it together. The one thing he is missing is composure - something very underated. Hopefully he finds this in time.

 

[mdc]

^^^I'd point out that as impressive as Sidebottom was in that Adelaide final, he did not do it in the midfield. He played primarily on the HBF/wing as a link player.

 

[robertg22]

Lets comprare these players to other players in their 3rd and 4th seasons.
To be even fairer I will leave out top 10 draft picks Gibbs, Selwood, Boak, Cotchin, Cale Morton, Armitage etc etc

Cyril Rioli
Brad Ebert
Jack Grimes
Andy Otten
Callan Ward
Chris Mayne
Brad Dalziell
Ricky Petterd
Alwyn Davey
Robbie Gray
Josh Hill
Nathan Krakouer
Leroy Jetta

And the list goes on.. Macaffer and Jmac are just simply no where near any of the players mentioned above. so to state it again...

Do you think that Caff & JMac are really that far behind the guys in bold?
Dalziell (23 years old) , Davey (25 years old) & Jetta (spud) especially.
Ebert has not shown me much at all. Dalziell can't get a game for the Eagles who haven't won a game. Jetta will be delisted at the end of this year. He is terrible. I don't rate Davey.

McCarthy was a bottom aged recruit who has had a run of injuries and has shown plenty. Good size, speed, skills. He's only 20 years old BTW!

Macaffer was recruited as an undersized full forward and has gradually made the transition into midfielder/utility. What about his game do you not rate? Did you see the SF vs Adelaide last year? I thought he was one of our best on the ground that night.

I think your judgement of these two kids is pretty far off the mark.

 

[ksardog]

the two midfielders we have to let off the leash are wellingham and thomas. these are the 2 with breakaway speed and could open up the games for others. they should have the license to attack.sidebottom is all class he will be our centreman in the future. beams is the scott burns replacement. as for mccarthy had high hopes for him but he looked terrible friday night, never been convinced on mccaffer. pendlebury , swan and didak speak for themselves. our ruckman getting first hands on the ball wouldnt go astray either, cant wait for the jolly and wood combo.

 

[4#Didak#4]

Agreed, plus you can't name guys that were picked well ahead in the draft, McCarthy went at pick 31 the only guys after that would be now worth looking at is Greenwood from North who I like but has not done much and Dalziell who is far from answering our problems.

Had we not traded for Wood we would have had pick #14 and could have landed Grimes which would be great, but we did need a ruckman at the time. Other than that the only player after 14 that has me a little concerned is Ward.

If McCarthy matches or nearly matches Ward & Grimes over his career we have had a win, because we also have a 10 year ruckman (we hope)thrown in.

 

[Old Spice]

With Wellingham, I reckon it might have been a maturity thing rather than concentration, per se. He has really burned it up so far, I just hope he doesn't get too carried away and keeps gouging away as he has been.

I'd love to see Blair and a few others given a go, form permitting, but Mick in my view will not allow that to happen in the next two years, without a catastrophic injury run. In some ways you can understand sticking with players you know, that way you don't cop any blame for outlandish experimentation if things go awry.

The problem with that approach is a/. you reward mediocrity b/. you demoralise players always rapping at the door c/. you hinder the development of young players d/. you suffer death in the slow lane as ordinary players slowly wilt and the replacements are not ready.

It's a shame because players like Blair, Reid or Cafeteria I believe are AFL ready and would create much more intense competition.

 

[person_pitch]

^ To be fair, Caf, McCarthy, Beams, Steele and Wellingham all played in our last game, and against St Kilda no less. They also played in the finals last year. It's not like we don't play young players, or give them responsibility.

It would be a pretty inexperienced (and non-muscular) looking midfield if we dropped someone along the lines of O'Bree for someone along the lines of Blair. It might make sense to allow McCarthy/Wellingham/Caf to establish themselves in the side permanently before dropping older players for more young players.

 

[AsianWithAFro]

Why do people say Caff won't make to AFL standards? I think he still has shitloads of potential

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Between the 4 of them they have played around 25 to 30 games. You would think one of those 25 to 30 games would have been a really good one.

What are you, the Borg?!

Games played by McCarthy don't help Reid gain experience. When MacAffer runs down the wing and kicks a clutch goal in a final against Adelaide, it doesn't do anything for Dawes' development.

By the way, Reid played against Melbourne and had triple the possessions of his opponent playing in defence, while keeping his opponent to one goal. Most would consider that a really good game.

Dawes kicking 3 goals in an interstate final, including a mark that would do Johnno Brown's mark-of-the-year proud, would generally be considered a really good game.

 

[Old Spice]

^ To be fair, Caf, McCarthy, Beams, Steele and Wellingham all played in our last game, and against St Kilda no less. They also played in the finals last year. It's not like we don't play young players, or give them responsibility.

It would be a pretty inexperienced (and non-muscular) looking midfield if we dropped someone along the lines of O'Bree for someone along the lines of Blair. It might make sense to allow McCarthy/Wellingham/Caf to establish themselves in the side permanently before dropping older players for more young players.

With Heath and Johnson out, it's doubtful Cafe and McCarthy would have broken through for a game.

The strength point makes sense to a degree, but Johnson does not win much of the ball through strength. OBree tackles a bit, but then again so does Blair, and not just on scrawniacs.

I'd just like to see a bit more of giving young players with plenty of development in them to be given a decent crack. Experienced players seem to be given enormous latitude to play themselves back into form.