Our List 2005

[Dogga]

Now that our season is as good as over I have been having a think about our list for next year. So here is what I would do, who to retain, who is retiring, who to delist, who to trade & some potential recruiting targets.

Retain:
Johncock, Welsh, M Stevens, Goodwin, Edwards, Torney, McGregor, Begley, Hart, Bassett, Hentschel, Ricciuto, McLeod, Bock, Reilly, Biglands, Mattner, S Stevens, Jericho, Watts, Krueger, Hudson.

Retiring:
Carey, Clarke, Burns, Smart.

Trade:
Stenglein. By all reports he wants to go home, so we might as well trade while his value is at its highest.
Perrie. He has had enough chances. Package him in a deal with Stenglein. KPP & must be mildly attractive to WCE. I'd think those 2 in a deal would net us either Butler/Waters + a 2nd round pick.
Burton. AFC's reluctance to play him as a forward, his disposal & lack of team skills has made him very tradeable. Despite this, he would be attractive to many clubs & would net us a good player or perhaps even a 1st round pick.

Playing for their future over the next 10 weeks: The poorest performed would be Delisted (or Traded if any club is willing). I realise we can't delist them all as we require some "depth" for next year so in no particular order: Bode, Skipworth, Ladhams, Doughty, Massie, Gallagher, Rutten, Schuback, Shirley with the best 4 or 5 performed for the remainder of the season to be retained.

Rookies: Parker & Andrews would be considered for an upgrade to the senior list but neither Hazell, Dabrowski or Smith have perfromed consistently enough.

Recruiting targets:
Much will depend on whether we obtain a priority pick and our position in the pre-season draft. I would assume that we will end up winning 6-7 games and finish 14th-15th. There are going to be some clubs towards the top of the ladder with salary cap issues eg St Kilda, Geelong, Brisbane, Melbourne & Port. I would be heavily targetting players from these clubs to take advantage of the room that will be opening up within our salary cap.

Brad Ottens. Although not from one of the club mentioned above, if he wants to come home we should make a big play for him. His form has not been fantastic over the last 2 years so we may be able to talk his value down a little. If he is out of contract we may even be able to get him in the pre-season. Would solve problems in ruck & forward divisions.

Matt Maguire & Nick Dal Santo. St Kilda's young stars are going to be reaching the stage where they are going to be wanting a bigger piece of the salary cap pie. The Saints would not look at trading the likes of Riewoldt, Koschitzke, Goddard etc so if we set our sights a little lower we may still end up with a bargain. Both were taken in the same draft as Reilly but are much more advanced at the same stage.

Corey Enright. Again, many of Geelong's young players who are having good seasons(eg Chapman, Ablett, Mooney etc) are going to be looking for pay rises. With the salary cap squeeze on perhaps they may look to offload someone like Enright who is an ex-South Australian. Hasn't had much game time of late, has even spent time in the VFL but he would be a great pick up for us & again we may be able to get him on the cheap.

Anyone from Brisbane would be a good get. They are so tight & professional up there I doubt we would be able to lure anyone away (Richmond threw the kitchen sink at Copeland before the pre-season draft but he still wouldn't leave) but with salary cap issues perhaps we could get one of their 2nd liners eg a Notting or Shattock with the promise of becoming a top-liner at Adelaide along with a pay increase.

Jared Rivers. Melbourne may also be feeling salary cap pressure after an improved season. He is an ex-SA boys so he is another we may be able to lure home. He is odds-on for the rising star so our chances of getting him are slim at best, but our football dept should be going flat out to get someone of his talent. He will be a key position star for the next 10 years.

Damon White. Can't crack a permanent spot at Port Adelaide, so it may be time for a move. I really rate him & know that he is highly regarded at North Adelaide. Surely he would be better value to us than a Perrie or a Scott Stevens and with Primus coming back next year & assuming Port will be looking to give game time to young talls Chaplin, Gilham & Pettigrew we may be able to convince White to leave the dark side.

I know this is all pie in the sky (we don't even know who will be coach yet) and we would need to offer more than I have listed above but our list needs a drastic overhaul & these are a few players that I think we should be trageting. We need to act aggressively & astutely during the trade period or unfortunately, we could be stranded at the foot of the table for a few years yet.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by Dogga
Anyone from Brisbane would be a good get. They are so tight & professional up there I doubt we would be able to lure anyone away (Richmond threw the kitchen sink at Copeland before the pre-season draft but he still wouldn't leave) but with salary cap issues perhaps we could get one of their 2nd liners eg a Notting or Shattock with the promise of becoming a top-liner at Adelaide along with a pay increase.

Salary Cap could be an issue, as Eddie McGuire & Co were successful in getting the Lion's concessions reduced. The Lions may be forced to let go a useful player or 2, which could be worth targeting given we should have room in the salary cap if they are reasonably young & fit into our future plans.

 

[maccas_no1]

I think that is one of the big advantages we are going to have at not only getting a great coach but also some good player's in the trading/drafting period as we have to cash to throw around. I also think that we can offer players more than what even port could as I reakon there would be salary cap pressure over at Alberton.

I would like to add Chad Cornes to the list of possible targets, he is improving and would be also in the boat of asking for more money could we possibly snare him??? What could we offer Port for him?? Burton and a 2nd Rnd pick????

 

[tribey]

Originally posted by maccas_no1
I would like to add Chad Cornes to the list of possible targets, he is improving and would be also in the boat of asking for more money could we possibly snare him??? What could we offer Port for him?? Burton and a 2nd Rnd pick????

No chance. If we offered Port that for him they'd spit in our faces.

 

[maccas_no1]

Originally posted by dyertribe
No chance. If we offered Port that for him they'd spit in our faces.

So what could we offer for him????

 

[tribey]

Originally posted by maccas_no1
So what could we offer for him????

Nothing. He's got all the tools to be the best CHB in the league - and would be head to head with McPharlin for the AA spot in that position right now.

He's untradeable. Ask this question on the Port board and see how far you get.

 

[Jars458]

Originally posted by dyertribe
Nothing. He's got all the tools to be the best CHB in the league - and would be head to head with McPharlin for the AA spot in that position right now.

He's untradeable. Ask this question on the Port board and see how far you get.

I would prefer McGregor over Cornes as a centre half back.

We would use Cornes as a forward but I take your point.

 

[napsyd]

Originally posted by Dogga
Retain:
Johncock, Welsh, M Stevens, Goodwin, Edwards, Torney, McGregor, Begley, Hart, Bassett, Hentschel, Ricciuto, McLeod, Bock, Reilly, Biglands, Mattner, S Stevens, Jericho, Watts, Krueger, Hudson.

Agree generally, although may be worth thinking about trading one of our senior midfielders (possibly Goodwin or Edwards). Lets face it, by the time we are in a real position to have a crack at a flag, our main midfield brigade will be over the hill or retired. These guys have value now, but each year that goes by, their value decreases. We may get a first rounder.

Originally posted by Dogga
Retiring:
Carey, Clarke, Burns, Smart.

Must still try and convince Carey to go on, but very doubtful I'd say.

Originally posted by Dogga
Trade:
Stenglein. Perrie. Burton.

Can't agree on Burton. Played well last season and was often in our best players. Has value to our team through his versatility and will be required next season when stocks are going to be very thin.

On Perrie, agree if we get some sort of win out of a package to West Coast, otherwise we may as well keep him around for one more year for the reasons above. Also, has shown a number of times that he cannot play with Carey around for some reason. Well, come 2005 problem solved more than likely.

Originally posted by Dogga
Playing for their future over the next 10 weeks: The poorest performed would be Delisted (or Traded if any club is willing). I realise we can't delist them all as we require some "depth" for next year so in no particular order: Bode, Skipworth, Ladhams, Doughty, Massie, Gallagher, Rutten, Schuback, Shirley with the best 4 or 5 performed for the remainder of the season to be retained.

Would consider Massie a certain retain personally. Schuback is young enough and I think promising enough to be put on the retain list now. Shirley will probably be required if Stenglein goes and showed more late last year when the chips were down than many of his higher profiled team mates. The rest all need to show something in the next few weeks.

Brad Ottens is not the solution to our current or long term situation IMO. Has not lived up to his potential and may never do so. If we can't get him for a bargain, I would keep the draft picks.

 

[tribey]

Originally posted by Jars458
I would prefer McGregor over Cornes as a centre half back.

McGregor would be great if he could take the competition's leading CHFs and tall roaming FFs on a regular basis. Why is it he never gets Tredrea? Why is it we've never anyone to take Tarrant? Why wasn't he tried on Fevola instead of Smart(?!)...

Cornes can make the contest, is quicker, more athletic and has far greater aerial ability than KMac - and remembering this is only his first season as a CHB he is still learning and will only get better - he'll learn not to zone off so much and give his man as much latitude as he sometimes does for instance.

 

[maccas_no1]

Originally posted by dyertribe


He's untradeable. Ask this question on the Port board and see how far you get.

I would but I am sort of banned from the Port Board

 

[Jars458]

Originally posted by dyertribe
McGregor would be great if he could take the competition's leading CHFs and tall roaming FFs on a regular basis. Why is it he never gets Tredrea? Why is it we've never anyone to take Tarrant? Why wasn't he tried on Fevola instead of Smart(?!)...

Cornes can make the contest, is quicker, more athletic and has far greater aerial ability than KMac - and remembering this is only his first season as a CHB he is still learning and will only get better - he'll learn not to zone off so much and give his man as much latitude as he sometimes does for instance.

He has beaten Jonathon Brown on more than one occasion.

he beat Cornes in the Showdown from Centre Half Forward

He can only do the tasks that the coach gives him.

Cornes is too loose as a backman IMO.

 

[spindoctor]

Originally posted by Jars458


Cornes is too loose as a backman IMO.

Agreed. McPharlin is streets ahead of Cornes as a CHB.

Cornes is overrated as a backman, even McGregor made him look the fool in the Showdown when he exposed him for zoning off too much, and McGregor is not really much guff as a CHF.

Jonathan Brown trounced him in Brisbane.

He is too unaccountable. More value as a floating tall than an actual key defender.

 

[tribey]

Originally posted by Jars458
Cornes is too loose as a backman IMO.

Hence my previous comment "and remembering this is only his first season as a CHB he is still learning and will only get better - he'll learn not to zone off so much and give his man as much latitude as he sometimes does for instance."

 

[maccas_no1]

Originally posted by Jars458


Cornes is too loose as a backman IMO.

Does Williams play him that way or is that his style of play????

 

[MrMeaner]

Originally posted by maccas_no1
Does Williams play him that way or is that his style of play????

I suspect it's his style of play. It is consistent with someone who has played forward for much of their career (at least his AFL career). He doesn't seem to me to be an instinctive defender. He may be able to be taught though.

 

[spindoctor]

Originally posted by dyertribe
Hence my previous comment "and remembering this is only his first season as a CHB he is still learning and will only get better - he'll learn not to zone off so much and give his man as much latitude as he sometimes does for instance."

Yes but you also said he would be pushing for AA honours with McPharlin.

IMO, he is well behind AA honours.

McPharlin would be in there with the top chance, McGregor has been pretty damn consistent (do you remember a game where McGregor has been beaten? I don't...that is pretty damn good), Jared Rivers has been pretty damn good, Matt Maguire also.

I'd rate any of them equal to, and some a fair bit better than Cornes.

 

[tribey]

Originally posted by spindoctor
Yes but you also said he would be pushing for AA honours with McPharlin.

IMO, he is well behind AA honours.

I disagree. While Chad has tailed off in his last couple, he was absolutely sensational before that and should be in the reckoning for the position come the end of the year.

At present he'd be just behind McPharlin, but ahead of Rivers and Maguire - I reckon McGregor has played far too much footy up forward to be considered this season and our win/loss record would be doing him no favours whatsoever. Besides, his name is never mentioned by the people that matter for this type of award.

 

[spindoctor]

Pity, because although I may be slightly biased, of all those CHBs I mentioned, Kenny has been the most consistent one in terms of shutting his opponent down.

McPharlin and Cornes are more obvious because they run off their opponent and try and push into the forward line. But the flipside is they don't negate their opponent to the extent McGregor does - albeit McPharlin does it a lot better than Cornes.

McGregor is possibly the best CHB in the league in the sense that he rarely gets beaten, something McPharlin and Cornes can't lay claim to.

His mauling of Rocca a few weeks ago was a perfect example.

A CHB's main role should be to shut down the opposition CHF, who is meant to be the route to goal. Running off and creating options should always be secondary to that, and only if safe as houses to do so.

Cornes and to a lesser extent, McPharlin, often get killed on the rebound and therefore never properly shut down their opponent.

What do you want more? Negation, or flair with the risk of getting done on the counterattack?

I choose the former.

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by dyertribe
McGregor would be great if he could take the competition's leading CHFs and tall roaming FFs on a regular basis. Why is it he never gets Tredrea? Why is it we've never anyone to take Tarrant? Why wasn't he tried on Fevola instead of Smart(?!)...

Cornes can make the contest, is quicker, more athletic and has far greater aerial ability than KMac - and remembering this is only his first season as a CHB he is still learning and will only get better - he'll learn not to zone off so much and give his man as much latitude as he sometimes does for instance.

McGregor is a far more complete CHB than Chad at this stage.

I can't remember the last time McGregor got beaten when playing CHB, it happens so rarely.

As for the competition's leading CHF's, he has beaten Brown on all but one occasion that he's stood him - high recommendation indeed.

He took Rocca to the proverbial cleaners, when he stood him - and Rocca's no mug CHF.

The only one that he hasn't stood for competition points is Tredrea, who he gave a hiding to in the pre-season game at Kadina. Ayres is the one who picks who stands Tredrea during Showdowns - if it were my choice, it would be Kenny.

To say that Cornes is currently a better CHB, because he WILL overcome his current loose checking is erroneous. The best you could say is that you think he will develop into the better CHB if and when he overcomes his loose checking - and that's only theoretical.

Kenny is currently the better CHB of the two by proven performance in the position.

 

[tribey]

Originally posted by macca23
McGregor is a far more complete CHB than Chad at this stage.

And you'd bloody well hope so considering Kenny has been a CHB for a lot longer - Chad of course having been a forward before being moved to the backlines just this season.

Having said that, Chad will be the better CHB if he's left there to develop.

Feel free to bookmark.

 

[Jerome]

Originally posted by Dogga

Trade:
Stenglein. By all reports he wants to go home, so we might as well trade while his value is at its highest.
Perrie. He has had enough chances. Package him in a deal with Stenglein. KPP & must be mildly attractive to WCE. I'd think those 2 in a deal would net us either Butler/Waters + a 2nd round pick.
Burton. AFC's reluctance to play him as a forward, his disposal & lack of team skills has made him very tradeable. Despite this, he would be attractive to many clubs & would net us a good player or perhaps even a 1st round pick.

Playing for their future over the next 10 weeks: The poorest performed would be Delisted (or Traded if any club is willing). I realise we can't delist them all as we require some "depth" for next year so in no particular order: Bode, Skipworth, Ladhams, Doughty, Massie, Gallagher, Rutten, Schuback, Shirley with the best 4 or 5 performed for the remainder of the season to be retained.

Rookies: Parker & Andrews would be considered for an upgrade to the senior list but neither Hazell, Dabrowski or Smith have perfromed consistently enough.

I'd keep Schuback and maybe Rutten. Please move on the rest of that lot on.

The rest, I'd agree with. Perhaps even try and thrown in S Stevens (another west aussie as is Parker) with Stenglien and or Perrie to get Waters and Butler.

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by dyertribe
And you'd bloody well hope so considering Kenny has been a CHB for a lot longer - Chad of course having been a forward before being moved to the backlines just this season.

Having said that, Chad will be the better CHB if he's left there to develop.

Feel free to bookmark.

I will, I will.

I picked it before the season started that choco would probably be forced to play Cornes at CHB this year.

My guess for next year is that if Chaplin comes along as expected, that Cornes is likely to revert back to assisting Tredrea in the forward line.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Do NOT trade draft picks unless you are getting a 20 year old gun in the making.

 

[Dogga]

Originally posted by macca23

My guess for next year is that if Chaplin comes along as expected, that Cornes is likely to revert back to assisting Tredrea in the forward line. [/B]

If we are smart we should be trying to get Damon White to come over to us for this very reason!

 

[SpecialBruce]

Originally posted by maccas_no1
I would but I am sort of banned from the Port Board

Haha! That makes 2 of us. What did you do?

Out of the list that could get the chop, I reckon you keep Schuback and Rutten. They will be useful players for you down the track.

Re: One of our second liners in Shattock or Notting.

Shattock will struggle to get a game for the rest of the year. I can't see him back in our side, so he might want to leave. If thats the case, what would you offer us for him? Or Notting for that matter?