Our midfield in order.

[rgauci]

If our midfield were put in order of ability, who are our best players:

1. Hasleby
2. Bell
3. J.Carr
4. M.Carr
5. H.Black
6. Cook
7. Schammer
8. Headland
9. Dodd
10. Walker
11. Crowley
12. Peake (i think he'll pass 8 of those above him by next year to rate in the top 4)
13. Schofield
14. Smith
15. Webster
16. Browne
17. Siegert

Oops i forgot about Dunn and McManus. Probably slot in somewhere just after Peake. Thats a bucket load of midfield type players of which all our best are of the in and under type. Most players on that list wouldn't get a game at other clubs. Its surprising to remember that H.Black would occasionally be omitted from the Saints line up. Was one of their fringe players. We obviously need to inject some pace with class near the top of that list. Hopefully by drafting some quick midfielders. Peake could develop into a very handy midfielder, but we need more of his type. It becomes obvious when you list the players like i have done that Peake is the rareity amongst the group.

Its also important to remember that our two best midfielders have been injured for the majority of the season. So hopefully by next year we draft some pacy midfielders for the future, also hope that Bell and Hasleby are fully fit. That would definately make our chances alot better.

Its becoming more and more obvious that midfields get you into finals. Who wins the finals becomes questionable. Defence, forwards, midfield, coaches etc. Who knows? But midfield depth and class seems a necessity for finals appearances.

 

[BB gun]

This year
1. Bell
2 H black
3 Hasleby
3. J.Carr
4. M.Carr
6. Cook
7. Schammer
8. Headland
9. Dodd
10. Walker
11. Crowley
12. Peake
13. Schofield
14. Smith
15. Webster
16. Browne
17. Siegert

Based on talent and next year
1 Hasleby
2 Schammer
3 H black
4 J carr
5 P Bell
6 D Headland

we need Schammer and Headland to step up next year. As well as improvement from Hasleby and J carr

 

[Dr Ralph Dagg]

There are some serious flaws in your analysis. Heath Black played 20 games last year. That hardly qualified as being a fringe player. Not sure why you put Headland in the midfield when he played up forward every game he played including pre-season. Bell was injured for 5 games -- thats not the majority of the season.

The most glaringly incorrect statement is that most players would not get a game at other clubs. Have you looked at other clubs?

My last bone of contention is that pace will be the answer. This year we got knocked over by Essendon twice, and Port on Saturday. Neither has pace in the midfield. We beat Melbounre, Bulldogs and Geelong that have plenty of pace. I think skills is our biggest issue. That and our system of play. We just get beaten too often by teams that just play a brand of tough consistent footy.

 

[dominguez]

Based on this season Black is number one, and when everyone is fit and playing well he would be number 2 behind Hasleby because those 2 are the most likely to hurt the opposition.

From memory the only time Heath Black was dropped at saint kilda was after the incident at training with Riewoldt, apart from that he was entrenched in their 22.

 

[rgauci]

There are some serious flaws in your analysis. Heath Black played 20 games last year. That hardly qualified as being a fringe player. Not sure why you put Headland in the midfield when he played up forward every game he played including pre-season. Bell was injured for 5 games -- thats not the majority of the season.

The most glaringly incorrect statement is that most players would not get a game at other clubs. Have you looked at other clubs?

My last bone of contention is that pace will be the answer. This year we got knocked over by Essendon twice, and Port on Saturday. Neither has pace in the midfield. We beat Melbounre, Bulldogs and Geelong that have plenty of pace. I think skills is our biggest issue. That and our system of play. We just get beaten too often by teams that just play a brand of tough consistent footy.

Essendon not having pace is the biggest farce in the game. Sheedy talking about the game being won in and under i liken to Ali telling Foreman he was gonna dance. We were the dope that got roped. We had every in and under player on our list on the field and got murdered by pace.

If you don't think pace is our biggest issue have a look at our centre clearances. Whenever our on-ballers get 1st hands on the ball they are rarely able to clear it. They get tackled and cough it up. We need Hasleby in top form because his handpasses are lightning and create space. He use to regularly handball to space or to the running player. All our on-ballers have been fumbling the taps or second grabbing the ball this year, its that split second mistake that means our clearances are ineffective because we can't use our pace to clear the ball. BECAUSE WE DONT HAVE ANY. You can't rely on perfect ball skills to clear the ball under pressure. But players don't get any slower under pressure. So yes our skills need improving but skills look better when you have time to use them. If we got McManus to jog into 40m and slot goals at training he'd probably bag 90%. Tell him to do it with Peake chasing him at full pelt and he'd be lucky to bag 20%.

Skills have everything to do with having the time to balance yourself and execute your kick/handball under minimal pressure.

I agree with most of the other criticisms of my post. Bell wasn't injured most of the year, but you have to consider he didn't have a preaseason.

 

[Drummond]

Headland is one of the most overrated players in the AFL. Maybe you should look at trading him, could get someone decent in return. Black was easily your best midfielder this season.

 

[masai]

Headland is one of the most overrated players in the AFL. Maybe you should look at trading him, could get someone decent in return. Black was easily your best midfielder this season.

If you had said the same thing about Headland a month or so ago, I would have easily agreed. To me he was just a seagull, but in the last 3 or 4 games I have seen a remarkable change. Des is now hitting the ball, player and tackling alot harder, this is a very good transformation.

I am prepared to give Des one more season to prove his new tough approach is not just a flash in the pan.

 

[Dr Ralph Dagg]

If you don't think pace is our biggest issue have a look at our centre clearances. Whenever our on-ballers get 1st hands on the ball they are rarely able to clear it. They get tackled and cough it up. We need Hasleby in top form because his handpasses are lightning and create space. He use to regularly handball to space or to the running player. All our on-ballers have been fumbling the taps or second grabbing the ball this year, its that split second mistake that means our clearances are ineffective because we can't use our pace to clear the ball. BECAUSE WE DONT HAVE ANY. You can't rely on perfect ball skills to clear the ball under pressure. But players don't get any slower under pressure. So yes our skills need improving but skills look better when you have time to use them. If we got McManus to jog into 40m and slot goals at training he'd probably bag 90%. Tell him to do it with Peake chasing him at full pelt and he'd be lucky to bag 20%.

You say we need pace and then say our on-ballers second grab and that Hasleby needs to be fit. I agree with that but can't see what it has to do centre clerances and with pace. And I'm not saying more pace wouldn't be very handy. If you have a look at our centre bounce clearances JLo is way ahead of anyone else. Is it because he's quick?

I am saying that it is not the No. 1 issue because I watch our players stuff up even when they're under no pressure. The second grabbing and fumbling is a skills issue not a pace issue. Heath Black doesn't steady himself when he's clear and in the latter part of the season was continually kicking over the forward's heads. Schammer, Headland, Farmer, Walker, Hasleby aren't all that reliable when under no pressure. That's not a pace issue.

 

[*PAF]

Headland is one of the most overrated players in the AFL. Maybe you should look at trading him, could get someone decent in return. Black was easily your best midfielder this season.

As an outsider that is more along the lines of how Freo should go.

Make a list of the most inconsistent players from 1 to 20 regardless of skills and ability and start trading away to bring the rest into line.
Long term it will pay off more than any trade for yet another good/great player ever will.
EDIT: Better still only include the WA players, ie the ones that do not want to go interstate. That will certainly put the wind up the other WA players and send the right message home to them.

 

[rgauci]

You say we need pace and then say our on-ballers second grab and that Hasleby needs to be fit. I agree with that but can't see what it has to do centre clerances and with pace. And I'm not saying more pace wouldn't be very handy. If you have a look at our centre bounce clearances JLo is way ahead of anyone else. Is it because he's quick?

I am saying that it is not the No. 1 issue because I watch our players stuff up even when they're under no pressure. The second grabbing and fumbling is a skills issue not a pace issue. Heath Black doesn't steady himself when he's clear and in the latter part of the season was continually kicking over the forward's heads. Schammer, Headland, Farmer, Walker, Hasleby aren't all that reliable when under no pressure. That's not a pace issue.

Heath Black use to regularly kick over the Saints forwards heads. Its not a new issue. When ppl were talking about his laser guided left boot i thought they were joking. He's never been an accurate kick over 60m. 40m perhaps but never 60m like ppl thought.

What i'm saying in the clearances is, if Judd second grabs the ball he's created a split second of time to take that second grab by opening up a metre on his player. If our players second grab they are going to be dumped into the turf because there opponent will be right on there hammer. Thats the key to pace in the middle. Hasleby could hide his lack of pace because he never second grabbed. Obviously his hernia is affecting how far he can bend over. So is probably second grabbing the balls on the ground. Hence if he's fit thats one problem fixed. But we would definately benefit from some pace around him. Hasleby is probably the only one-grab on-baller we have on our list. ANd one of the few in the league.

 

[theGav56]

Surely a big advantage in the midfield is to have variety, and therefore the potential to a) create mismatches and b) respond to the makeup of the opposition.

That is partly why Pav when used in the midfiled had some success; mismatch. Clearly the similarity in size and pace of Haselby, Bell, Cooke and J Carr limits us. And looking at the Weagles as a model for the midfield, the skill set they have in the midfield area that we lack is the tall players with speed; Judd, Embley and Stenglein. Our midfield talls don't really play midfield much; Headland, M Carr, Pavlich.

For me this is what we would ideally target. The other possibility is out and out midfield pace regardless of size, but they need to have other weapons; great disposal; one grab player; tagger (Crowley).