Our Midfield

[Elton Johns Wig]

How many taps he win?

Taps won, bare stats

Nank 21
Soldo 11
32


Flynn 14
Riccardi 3
Green 1
Himmelberg 1
19

 

[captain blood 17]

Taps won, bare stats

Nank 21
Soldo 11
32


Flynn 14
Riccardi 3
Green 1
Himmelberg 1
19

But **** mate, those 14 taps from Flynn were ELITE. We were just lucky GWS had an off day. But not Flynn. I heard his tap to advantage ratio totally rooted us.

 

[captain blood 17]

See now i'm just a little confused. The poster who claims GWS had an off day has then proceeded to try and show me how they beat our midfield with stats. OOOOOOOPSY. Sometimes it's not real hard is it Elton Johns Wig ?

 

[Elton Johns Wig]

See now i'm just a little confused. The poster who claims GWS had an off day has then proceeded to try and show me how they beat our midfield with stats. OOOOOOOPSY. Sometimes it's not real hard is it Elton Johns Wig ?

When you present stats, it's best not to be selective, that's what I've found....

 

[captain blood 17]

When you present stats, it's best not to be selective, that's what I've found....

Or argue that a team/midfield had an off day then try and argue the other way with selective stats.

 

[Simche]

See now i'm just a little confused. The poster who claims GWS had an off day has then proceeded to try and show me how they beat our midfield with stats. OOOOOOOPSY. Sometimes it's not real hard is it Elton Johns Wig ?

You do seem confused. I never claimed they 'beat our midfield', I was illustrating that we didn't 'mash them' in the middle which was a ridiculous claim and you seem unable to comprehend the difference.

The game wasn't won in the middle, it's been illustrated above re our best three players on the day being in the back half (Short, Broad and Rioli).

If you want to hang your hat on the ruck stats you go right ahead. I think I'm on here somewhere illustrating that hit outs numbers in general are an extremely poor measure of a teams ability (look at last year's top 10 or so sides if you don't believe me) with sides like North, Freo, St Kilda and Collingwood regularly winning that stat. Doesn't do those sides much good.

Please keep burying your head in the sand re the midfield if you like. It's a long season and I'll be here the whole time.

I also enjoy how petty you are having a personal crack. I count four posts since my last one so I really must have rustled your jimmies. I can accept that you have a different view of the game. I just don't agree with it.

 

[mauricerioli]

You do seem confused. I never claimed they 'beat our midfield', I was illustrating that we didn't 'mash them' in the middle which was a ridiculous claim and you seem unable to comprehend the difference.

The game wasn't won in the middle, it's been illustrated above re our best three players on the day being in the back half (Short, Broad and Rioli).

If you want to hang your hat on the ruck stats you go right ahead. I think I'm on here somewhere illustrating that hit outs numbers in general are an extremely poor measure of a teams ability (look at last year's top 10 or so sides if you don't believe me) with sides like North, Freo, St Kilda and Collingwood regularly winning that stat. Doesn't do those sides much good.

Please keep burying your head in the sand re the midfield if you like. It's a long season and I'll be here the whole time.

I also enjoy how petty you are having a personal crack. I count four posts since my last one so I really must have rustled your jimmies. I can accept that you have a different view of the game. I just don't agree with it.

We need to improve our midfield work, there’s no denying that.
We’ve regularly been losing the clearance and contested ball battle for a long time.

Every week people come on on here and post stats showing we were smashed at clearance and contested ball and saying our midfield was poor and got smashed, and they’re correct.

But when we finally win a midfield battle we need to give our midfield credit, not try and downplay it.
If these stats were the other way around it would be correctly used as proof our midfield got smashed again.

Yes we still need to do this on a weekly basis for a sustained period to say we have an improved or good midfield, but this is a very comfortable midfield win over one of the best teams in the league in this area, and it went a long way to helping us win the game.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

You do seem confused. I never claimed they 'beat our midfield', I was illustrating that we didn't 'mash them' in the middle which was a ridiculous claim and you seem unable to comprehend the difference.

The game wasn't won in the middle, it's been illustrated above re our best three players on the day being in the back half (Short, Broad and Rioli).

If you want to hang your hat on the ruck stats you go right ahead. I think I'm on here somewhere illustrating that hit outs numbers in general are an extremely poor measure of a teams ability (look at last year's top 10 or so sides if you don't believe me) with sides like North, Freo, St Kilda and Collingwood regularly winning that stat. Doesn't do those sides much good.

Please keep burying your head in the sand re the midfield if you like. It's a long season and I'll be here the whole time.

I also enjoy how petty you are having a personal crack. I count four posts since my last one so I really must have rustled your jimmies. I can accept that you have a different view of the game. I just don't agree with it.

To be fair, overall our ruckmen had a much bigger impact than their opponent/s. There are some more difficult to measure elements to this, like physical presence post hit out in stoppages, where I thought Nankervis and Soldo were good and Flynn not so. But our boys kicked 3 goals between them where Flynn and Green got 0.1 and no goal assists. Flynn had 7 disposals in 77% game time, our two rucks combined for 24 disposals in 124% games time. Flynn and Green combined for 1 tackle in the match while our boys combined for 6.

So whilst it is hard to know how many disposals Green got while he was rucking, overall, Nankervis and Soldo seem to have provided a very substantial advantage in terms of overall impact on the game versus Flynn and Green. Hitouts, hitouts to advantage, goals, disposals, tackles, contested possessions, all seem to have been way in our favour. Our rucks combined also for 15 contested possessions versus Flynn 2. OK our boys combined spent more 60% more time on the ground than Flynn but that is an absolute smashing.

The rucks form a key part of the midfield there is no getting around that and ours murdered theirs. I think that was a large part of why our midfield did so much better in rd 2. Our rucks, probably due to rustiness etc were well below competitive level in rd 1. They will of course have stiffer tests than Flynn to face, but Nankervis and Soldo should not ever do worse than in rd 1 while both are fit. While this pair compete well, I think our mid section should stand up pretty well.

 

[captain blood 17]

You do seem confused. I never claimed they 'beat our midfield', I was illustrating that we didn't 'mash them' in the middle which was a ridiculous claim and you seem unable to comprehend the difference.

The game wasn't won in the middle, it's been illustrated above re our best three players on the day being in the back half (Short, Broad and Rioli).

If you want to hang your hat on the ruck stats you go right ahead. I think I'm on here somewhere illustrating that hit outs numbers in general are an extremely poor measure of a teams ability (look at last year's top 10 or so sides if you don't believe me) with sides like North, Freo, St Kilda and Collingwood regularly winning that stat. Doesn't do those sides much good.

Please keep burying your head in the sand re the midfield if you like. It's a long season and I'll be here the whole time.

I also enjoy how petty you are having a personal crack. I count four posts since my last one so I really must have rustled your jimmies. I can accept that you have a different view of the game. I just don't agree with it.

Lol, I love the fact you keep coming back for more. You only seem capable of believing your own posts and not the other data supported not only by myself but from other posters. But ,hey, they had an off day. What can i say. And nice melt. They got belted in the midfield for reasons already stated. Your argument just hasn't stacked up.

 

[Dr Tigris]

To be fair, overall our ruckmen had a much bigger impact than their opponent/s. There are some more difficult to measure elements to this, like physical presence post hit out in stoppages, where I thought Nankervis and Soldo were good and Flynn not so. But our boys kicked 3 goals between them where Flynn and Green got 0.1 and no goal assists. Flynn had 7 disposals in 77% game time, our two rucks combined for 24 disposals in 124% games time. Flynn and Green combined for 1 tackle in the match while our boys combined for 6.

So whilst it is hard to know how many disposals Green got while he was rucking, overall, Nankervis and Soldo seem to have provided a very substantial advantage in terms of overall impact on the game versus Flynn and Green. Hitouts, hitouts to advantage, goals, disposals, tackles, contested possessions, all seem to have been way in our favour. Our rucks combined also for 15 contested possessions versus Flynn 2. OK our boys combined spent more 60% more time on the ground than Flynn but that is an absolute smashing.

The rucks form a key part of the midfield there is no getting around that and ours murdered theirs. I think that was a large part of why our midfield did so much better in rd 2. Our rucks, probably due to rustiness etc were well below competitive level in rd 1. They will of course have stiffer tests than Flynn to face, but Nankervis and Soldo should not ever do worse than in rd 1 while both are fit. While this pair compete well, I think our mid section should stand up pretty well.

Nankoldo are one of the more physical ruck teams in the league. They both hit like medieval knights with poll axes, and try to dominate the contest physically (do it differently though). If they are playing well they make the job of our other mids so much easier. It's not sexy, few stats, but they change the whole complexion of the game when in form.

 

[Grrr]

Nankoldo are one of the more physical ruck teams in the league. They both hit like medieval knights with poll axes, and try to dominate the contest physically (do it differently though). If they are playing well they make the job of our other mids so much easier. It's not sexy, few stats, but they change the whole complexion of the game when in form.

Can they do it against Gawn? Big lanky fellow, why not. WC did it against Grundy in the FD, by 3/4 time he was bashed and bruised. Have not been a fan of the two rucks but I think the trade off is worth it. Mids can rest a bit up forward and or have one less rotation off the bench. Keeps the rucks fresher and you lose nothing when one or the other has a spell.

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Can they do it against Gawn? Big lanky fellow, why not. WC did it against Grundy in the FD, by 3/4 time he was bashed and bruised. Have not been a fan of the two rucks but I think the trade off is worth it. Mids can rest a bit up forward and or have one less rotation off the bench. Keeps the rucks fresher and you lose nothing when one or the other has a spell.

After reading the first question in your post, I thought you were going to go the other way. ie Let's wait and see how they go against teams with two capable rucks, rather than a team with only one newbie ruck.
Having said that, both Nank and Soldo are both experienced big body ruckmen now, so I know some here are questioning us using both in games, but I am hope we stay with them both.

 

[Grrr]

After reading the first question in your post, I thought you were going to go the other way. ie Let's wait and see how they go against teams with two capable rucks, rather than a team with only one newbie ruck.
Having said that, both Nank and Soldo are both experienced big body ruckmen now, so I know some here are questioning us using both in games, but I am hope we stay with them both.

I probably was but I talked myself out of it. Goldfish syndrome.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Can they do it against Gawn? Big lanky fellow, why not. WC did it against Grundy in the FD, by 3/4 time he was bashed and bruised. Have not been a fan of the two rucks but I think the trade off is worth it. Mids can rest a bit up forward and or have one less rotation off the bench. Keeps the rucks fresher and you lose nothing when one or the other has a spell.

Was interesting to watch Mab getting hold of Gawn (until Mab tired as he does) on the weekend. Jumped 2 feet higher than him and won hitouts to advantage in the centre square, even out-bodied him in a couple of around the ground stoppages.

We've never played them with both Soldo and Nank available, so I really hope we get to see that in a few weeks' time.

 

[Grrr]

Was interesting to watch Mab getting hold of Gawn (until Mab tired as he does) on the weekend. Jumped 2 feet higher than him and won hitouts to advantage in the centre square, even out-bodied him in a couple of around the ground stoppages.

We've never played them with both Soldo and Nank available, so I really hope we get to see that in a few weeks' time.

Good to hear Mab went well. Always thought he could make a great ruckman ala Paddy Ryder but would take a while because he is pretty raw as far as ruckman go. Got some special talent that boy, maintaining it is biggest problem.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Good to hear Mab went well. Always thought he could make a great ruckman ala Paddy Ryder but would take a while because he is pretty raw as far as ruckman go. Got some special talent that boy, maintaining it is biggest problem.

Still has stamina issues, he was out on his feet by the last quarter, but playing key forward/2nd ruck with Witts the iron horse (who has rucked solo most of his time there) is probably as suitable a role as he'll get.

He did some exciting things, would be a contender for mark of the year, but it wasn't paid. Took a couple of great pack marks up forward and was really dangerous with his centre square hit-outs during his brief ruck stints. Ironically he kicked 1:2 and probably should have had at least two of them, let himself down a bit with his kicking for goal, though his field kicking to leading targets was sublime.

Still had a couple of instances where he wasn't competitive enough in the air, but overall they'd be really happy with his game. Commentators were talking him right up as a 'really exciting great acquisition' and I think he will be for them.

 

[JR82]

Nankoldo are one of the more physical ruck teams in the league. They both hit like medieval knights with poll axes, and try to dominate the contest physically (do it differently though). If they are playing well they make the job of our other mids so much easier. It's not sexy, few stats, but they change the whole complexion of the game when in form.

Another thing our rucks are doing is forcing teams to play 2 against us instead of 1 + a hybrid.
Flynn did indeed get smashed by our blokes, so much so he got dropped for this week.
Looking back at Rd 1 our rucks getting beaten wasn't the greatest surprise, Nank had been locked up in his house for a week & it was Soldo's 1st proper game since sept '20, they were always going to be better for rd 2 & indeed they were. There is a 3rd advantage to playing both, it limits their game time & essentially keeps them fresher as the yr goes on, this should help extend their careers all going well

 

[Mr Magic]

Just on our midfield, I would just like to thank the powers at be at our club investing in our forward line and backline.

I watched the Bulldogs Swans game on the TV last night and it was one of the worst spectacles I have seen for two supposed top teams competing. I wish I could have those few hours back in my life. The umpiring was abhorrent as well and one sided.

The fact our supporters do not have to endure that type of crap is a testament to our club stakeholders

 

[Wooden Robot]

Just on our midfield, I would just like to thank the powers at be at our club investing in our forward line and backline.

I watched the Bulldogs Swans game on the TV last night and it was one of the worst spectacles I have seen for two supposed top teams competing. I wish I could have those few hours back in my life. The umpiring was abhorrent as well and one sided.

The fact our supporters do not have to endure that type of crap is a testament to our club stakeholders

Reality check. Richmond v GWS last week was not one for the ages.

 

[Mr Magic]

Reality check. Richmond v GWS last week was not one for the ages.

That might be fair but it left Bulldogs v Swans last night for dead.

That match last night almost scarred me for life!!!.

At least Balta showed a bit in the match versus GWS not to mention Bolton. Name me a highlight in the Swans Bulldogs ugly snore fest?

Gibcus's mark was a highlight to

 

[tigs2010]

That might be fair but it left Bulldogs v Swans last night for dead.

That match last night almost scarred me for life!!!.

At least Balta showed a bit in the match versus GWS not to mention Bolton. Name me a highlight in the Swans Bulldogs ugly snore fest?

Weightman milking frees was the highlight

 

[Wooden Robot]

That might be fair but it left Bulldogs v Swans last night for dead.

That match last night almost scarred me for life!!!.

At least Balta showed a bit in the match versus GWS not to mention Bolton. Name me a highlight in the Swans Bulldogs ugly snore fest?

Gibcus's mark was a highlight to

Not disagreeing.
I could name Bontrempelli's foot skills as the only highlight.
Class rises.
The rest was pretty mediocre, umpiring espevially.

 

[Pattiger]

To be fair, overall our ruckmen had a much bigger impact than their opponent/s. There are some more difficult to measure elements to this, like physical presence post hit out in stoppages, where I thought Nankervis and Soldo were good and Flynn not so. But our boys kicked 3 goals between them where Flynn and Green got 0.1 and no goal assists. Flynn had 7 disposals in 77% game time, our two rucks combined for 24 disposals in 124% games time. Flynn and Green combined for 1 tackle in the match while our boys combined for 6.

So whilst it is hard to know how many disposals Green got while he was rucking, overall, Nankervis and Soldo seem to have provided a very substantial advantage in terms of overall impact on the game versus Flynn and Green. Hitouts, hitouts to advantage, goals, disposals, tackles, contested possessions, all seem to have been way in our favour. Our rucks combined also for 15 contested possessions versus Flynn 2. OK our boys combined spent more 60% more time on the ground than Flynn but that is an absolute smashing.

The rucks form a key part of the midfield there is no getting around that and ours murdered theirs. I think that was a large part of why our midfield did so much better in rd 2. Our rucks, probably due to rustiness etc were well below competitive level in rd 1. They will of course have stiffer tests than Flynn to face, but Nankervis and Soldo should not ever do worse than in rd 1 while both are fit. While this pair compete well, I think our mid section should stand up pretty well.

Check out the number of taps that Soldo won when the ball was tapped to the left hand side square where there was no midfielder running to that area. Soldo tapped it to the advantage of Richmond due to the way he contests the ball and he naturally hits it to the left hand side but no richmond midfielder picks this up which leaves the ball in no mans territory rather to the advantage of richmond when the midfielder runs by. It happened
at least three times of which ie as per Cotchin kick to bolton may have resulted in goals.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Bring in rcd and sonsie to support Dow

 

[DustinsGuns]

Bring in rcd and sonsie to support Dow

Dow wasn't great despite his stats but we should be willing to stick with him. He shows alot of flashes that should be nurtured. Need to get Sonsie in ASAP unless the Coaching team have a specific reason why to keep him at the level (defensive stoppages, etc).

Unfortunately I think we need to move on from RCD. He was drafted what, 3-4 years ago and has constantly been picked over guys like Martyn, Ralphsmith, Naish, etc. How many non-KPP players all of a sudden "click" in their 4th year?