Our playing list

[lunacy]

After watching us week in week out this year than watching Bulldogs today dismantle the Kangaroos, we have some clear defficiencies in list.

We have too many similar players who are either too slow, poorly skilled or both. Particularly in the small/running players.

Reilly - slow
Symes - slow, Poor skills
Thompson - slow and can occasionally turn the ball over (but has some great qualities and you can certainly have 1 or 2 of his type).
Van Berlo - I wouldnt say terrible skills but can certainly turn the ball over.
Cook - Poorly skilled
Doughty - similar to VB. Not quick but not slow. Average - ok skills.
Schmidt - slow, Poorly skilled.
Sloane - reasonably slow and not great skills (but great endeavour see Thomo).
Petrenko - pretty average skills, but fast and hard at it.
Porps - slow, but very skilled

Douglas and Vince have pretty good skills (particularly Vince) but neither are very quick (especially Vince).

We have some very slow and vanilla type midfielders and desperately need to introduce and recruit some skilled and quick players with at least one of those being an inside and outside mid. Nothing new but gees it stands out when we play bad.

Also our rucks are very average. I think we need to introduce a 2nd ruck who can provide something different around the ground (either Sellar or McKernen). At the moment we have too rucks who neither win a lot of hitouts, nor take marks, nor get enough of the ball.

We have Johncock, Knights, Otten and hopefully Martin to come into the side at some stage so at least there is some speed and skill to come in.

I dont think we can carry Symes, Reilly, Schmidt in the side at once. Its hard because we dont have much depth in these positions.

 

[jackster83]

I think the performance of Dustin Martin today not only won them the game, but highlighted the type of player we are badly lacking. Strength through the hips, AWARENESS, pace, skill and a thumping kick on him. He reminded me so much of a young Ricciuto out there today.

Our recruiting team should be taken out and shot if they use our first rounder on anything other than the best available midfielder this year.

 

[spexau]

It's no secret we're 1 or 2 quality mids away from being a really good side. It's where we get exposed the most because the crop we currently have aren't consistent enough or good enough to win games off their back. Having said that scoreboard pressure is a wonderful thing and we haven't been able to do anything of the sort over the past 2 weeks and that really isn't our midfielders problem.

Otten, Knights and Johncock certinally all add speed, agility, intelligence and skill to our team and Martin is fairly skillful, has a lot of endevour and very pacey so he's always a welcome addition.

Very interesting off season this year. Need to target a couple of softer outside mids to compliment Reilly, Thompson and Dangerfield going full time midfielder next year.

 

[ronnie1234]

Yep, can't wait to see Knights, Johncock, Martin and the long forgotten Andy Otten back in the side next year The best thing we could do now is get all our players fit and firing for 2011 now, and hopefully we won't have to face another dodgy pre season

 

[Mismatched]

After watching us week in week out this year than watching Bulldogs today dismantle the Kangaroos, we have some clear defficiencies in list.

We have too many similar players who are either too slow, poorly skilled or both. Particularly in the small/running players.

Reilly - slow
Symes - slow, Poor skills
Thompson - slow and can occasionally turn the ball over (but has some great qualities and you can certainly have 1 or 2 of his type).
Van Berlo - I wouldnt say terrible skills but can certainly turn the ball over.
Cook - Poorly skilled
Doughty - similar to VB. Not quick but not slow. Average - ok skills.
Schmidt - slow, Poorly skilled.
Sloane - reasonably slow and not great skills (but great endeavour see Thomo).
Petrenko - pretty average skills, but fast and hard at it.
Porps - slow, but very skilled

Douglas and Vince have pretty good skills (particularly Vince) but neither are very quick (especially Vince).

We have some very slow and vanilla type midfielders and desperately need to introduce and recruit some skilled and quick players with at least one of those being an inside and outside mid. Nothing new but gees it stands out when we play bad.

Also our rucks are very average. I think we need to introduce a 2nd ruck who can provide something different around the ground (either Sellar or McKernen). At the moment we have too rucks who neither win a lot of hitouts, nor take marks, nor get enough of the ball.

We have Johncock, Knights, Otten and hopefully Martin to come into the side at some stage so at least there is some speed and skill to come in.

I dont think we can carry Symes, Reilly, Schmidt in the side at once. Its hard because we dont have much depth in these positions.

I think you've hit the nail on the head, we've got far too many slow, average skilled, role players in our side. Blokes who certainly give their all and play "okay" games every week, but will never be star footballers, but because they give a consistent effort and play their "role" they seem to get favoured over blokes who, whilst perhaps not being as consistent to begin with, have the potential to be A-grade footballers.

 

[thebirdman 24]

Where are we going to play Otten? I'm thinking because he was so good down back in 2009 he will stay there and we hopefully won't leak so bad.

Is Knights going to come back into the midfield or continue his role at HF? or both? I think the latter which should add some hardness, but we all know what his field kicking is like.

Martin i'm looking forward to getting back, quick, small, skillful, wish he didn't do his knee last year.

I wouldn't call Sloane reasonably slow, i would say he's pretty quick. Some are underestimating players speed, i do agree its a problem but i'd say the only really slow plodders we have are Stevens and Symes. And yet we put them together in the backline.

 

[Pariah]

We need to see what happens during trade week before we decide on what type of players to take in the draft.
If no weaknesses are solved then I think we should draft the following types of players:
One or two inside midfielders.
One or two outside midfielders.
A ruck man .
A mid sized half back with good skills, pace and has footy smarts.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

....

 

[Sando Pets]

One thing I picked up on today was how Dusty Martin and Cousins played with a real understanding for each other. They played as a partnership, in the middle and around the stoppages.

I may be wrong, but I don't detect any 'dynamic duos' amongst our mids. Surely, this would be a good thing to develop?

As a side note, young Justin Bollenhagen debuted for Freo today, kicked two goals. He is a left footer and a Reynella boy. We should be keeping an eye on him for sure.

 

[SydCrow]

we were smashed in the centre again today

it can't be just our rucks because Richmond had Graham

maybe Sloane can go in there and try to get his hands on the ball - he generally uses it well by hand

the speed thing is overated IMO - I'd rather have guys who can kick - which is more the hallmark of the Dogs than blistering pace

 

[Mismatched]

we were smashed in the centre again today

it can't be just our rucks because Richmond had Graham

maybe Sloane can go in there and try to get his hands on the ball - he generally uses it well by hand

the speed thing is overated IMO - I'd rather have guys who can kick - which is more the hallmark of the Dogs than blistering pace

Well the issue is a lot of them are slow and can't really kick either. I'm more than happy to have guys like Porplyzia, Vince or Walker in our side, for whilst they may be slow, they are generally great kicks of the footy and are in general, quality footballers.

 

[thebirdman 24]

we were smashed in the centre again today

it can't be just our rucks because Richmond had Graham

maybe Sloane can go in there and try to get his hands on the ball - he generally uses it well by hand

the speed thing is overated IMO - I'd rather have guys who can kick - which is more the hallmark of the Dogs than blistering pace

I'd say Dogs have both. Pace is now crucial in today's game. Our forward pressure was terrible before the introduction of Jaensch and Henderson. Teams need speed all over the ground to force a turnover. We missed Johncock severely today, who can usually minimize the amount of easy goals a team gets against us, but maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea for Craig to use Dangerfield back there and Petrenko next year (like he should've all this year). Once the ball hits the ground in our defensive 50 we often get scored against easily because we have so many tall or slow players back there to mop up.

Yeah i don't understand that either why Sloane doesn't get extended runs in the middle, and how we make our rookies serve their apprenticeship up forward whilst we let our veterans go back (edwards, goodwin, now doughty). This is the complete opposite of most teams who give their rookies an easy HB role to give them confidence, and let the veterans use their class up forward (eg Macca).

 

[smoovy]

I'm from the Craigy school of thought that out and out pace isn't an issue. I think all sides have there 1 or 2 really quick players and 1 or 2 really slow players everyone else is about the same.

What makes you look quick is quickness of ball movement and quickness in decision making. A lot of our players are slow by mind.

In terms of running what is more important is the gut busting runs up and down the ground. What defined us during our good patch last year and which was commented on by a number of commentators was our ability and also willingness to work up and down the ground and get to areas where you can have an influence.

 

[Cap]

i do think its important not to go too far over the top when you've had two poor performances on the the trot.

the list isn't different from the one that beat Geelong, but is currently struggling for consistency.

 

[smoovy]

The only thing that sets our list apart from say a St Kilda are a few more hardened midfielders in the 26-30 yo age bracket, which is a vacuus space left for us by the Ayres years.

 

[Cap]

thats right smoovy, and the amazing lack of any players picked up in the 1-5 draft bracket.

 

[footy4ever]

I think you've hit the nail on the head, we've got far too many slow, average skilled, role players in our side. Blokes who certainly give their all and play "okay" games every week, but will never be star footballers, but because they give a consistent effort and play their "role" they seem to get favoured over blokes who, whilst perhaps not being as consistent to begin with, have the potential to be A-grade footballers.

Well thats the price we pay for playing finals every year (except this year).

But I cant agree with much of the OP. How does a team this so-called slow and

'average skilled', ever beat the best team in the competition?

It must have something going for it.

 

[footy4ever]

We have some very slow and vanilla type midfielders and desperately need to introduce and recruit some skilled and quick players with at least one of those being an inside and outside mid. Nothing new but gees it stands out when we play bad.

We can have the quickest and most skilled midfield in the universe, but it wont matter a **** if the forwards don't nail the goals.

 

[LC40]

Of course we need to inject some speed into our team.

Players that can run lines are invaluable and at present we are quite literally a team of plodders in terms of leg speed.
Sure fast ball movement counts but ball movement doesn't run down a player from behind.
It doesn't make an opposition player take that glance back due to inferred pressure.

We need to draft some quality midfielder no doubt about that but we also need to draft a couple of hard players who actually get down and dirty. For years we have been crying out for a couple of hard nuts who stick a tackle, make them hurt and then go in and get the ball.
Not an athlete or crossover basket baller but a Boyd, Picken, Hodge,Martin or Kirk type who can actually work in traffic with clean hands and disposal.

Our rucks need to do more around the ground period.
Ben Hudson was let go and he was the exact type of ruck we needed and still need. Love or hate Brogan he takes marks makes his presences felt and dominates games.
It not good enough to take one contested mark a week.
We all watch the games week in, week out does anyone really believe we have the game system,hardness or personnel at present to win the entire thing and that is what we are aiming for.

We have a really good squad but we are lacking some major pieces.
I fear we are so predictable, structured and respectable that nobody truly fears coming up against us.
The recruiters don't have to pull a rabbit out of the hat, just get some footballers with attitude and instil some daring.

 

[Glenno23]

The problem is not the playing list, its the application of the playing list

We looked a very fast team against the Cats, and have looked like a bunch of plodders for the past 2 weeks

We got ourselves up for that game, and have had some massive deflation. it all started against Port. They lifted to play us, put mass amounts of pressure on us. Then when it came to goal kicking, we missed a few and that confidence from the Cats game dissappeared

It followed in to today and again our goal kicking was poor.

Inconsistency will happen with a young list. And thats what we have had for the past 2 weeks. No Goody, Macca or Edwards to steady the ship. In fact no one really standing up at all.

We need someone to grab the reins and pull everyone along. But it has been lacking for the past 2

 

[Crow-mo]

I think you've hit the nail on the head, we've got far too many slow, average skilled, role players in our side. Blokes who certainly give their all and play "okay" games every week, but will never be star footballers, but because they give a consistent effort and play their "role" they seem to get favoured over blokes who, whilst perhaps not being as consistent to begin with, have the potential to be A-grade footballers.

but, but, but Craigy said only at the end of last year we had no deficiencies or needs in our playing list...

 

[Crow-mo]

i do think its important not to go too far over the top when you've had two poor performances on the the trot.

the list isn't different from the one that beat Geelong, but is currently struggling for consistency.

the going over the top happened after the geelong game

 

[Bicks]

I think our big problem in the main this year has been down to most of our players not CONSISTENTLY playing to the best of their ability, some can be excused perhaps because of poor pre-seasons or injury, some have also not quite lived up to the perceived POTENTIAL of Crows supporters.

If you rated players performances as A, B, C this year, notwithstanding injuries how many would get an A ???? My Opinion only..... clearly no where near enough CONSISTENT A class performers this season...

Armstrong C
Bock C
Burton C
Cook C
Dangerfield B
Davis B-
Doughty B-
Douglas A-
Edwards C
Goodwin A
Griffin C+
Gunston C
Henderson B
Hentschell C-
Jacky D
Jaensch C
Johncock A-
Knights C
Mackay B
Maric B-
McKernan C-
McLeod C
Petrenko C
Porplyzia C-
Reilly B
Rutten A-
Schmidt C
Sellar C
Sloane B-
Stevens C+
Symes C
Thompson A
Tippett B
van Berlo C
Vince C+
Walker B-
Young C

Not rated for various reasons,injury, lack of available info... Otten, Martin, Moran, Craig, Donnelly, Riley, Shaw, Talia, L Thompson, M Wight

 

[Crow-mo]

The only thing that sets our list apart from say a St Kilda are a few more hardened midfielders in the 26-30 yo age bracket, which is a vacuus space left for us by the Ayres years.

thats right smoovy, and the amazing lack of any players picked up in the 1-5 draft bracket.

you guys are delusional.

2004
2005
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010

don't talk to me about the ayres years. Craigs been there a lot longer than ayres ever was, and has had plenty of chances to recruit mature bodies if that's what he thought we needed.

and of course, how old would be a 17/18 yr old drafted in 2004 be right now?

 

[smoovy]

you guys are delusional.

2004
2005
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010

don't talk to me about the ayres years. Craigs been there a lot longer than ayres ever was, and has had plenty of chances to recruit mature bodies if that's what he thought we needed.

and of course, how old would be a 17/18 yr old drafted in 2004 be right now?

Well he would be 23/24 at the end of 2010. Ok so I passed the maths test. What's your point?

You can't just make flippant comments about recruiting. You can't just go and get these guys without giving up something. So you think he should have traded away promising youngsters or draft picks?

If you don't think there is a void there caused by Ayres then you yourself are delusional.