Our Premiership Window

[darren forssman]

i know this story is 3 days from breaking but moons is talking about the same thing:

Last hurrah for us says Cat Cameron Mooney

• Jay Clark
• From: Herald Sun
• February 18, 2010 12:00AM

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...y/story-e6frf9jf-1225828935821?from=public_js

 

[DanA]

I think Mooney has an inflated opinion of his value.

Next year hopefully only Mooney & Milburn move on meaning we definately have another shot at a premiership

 

[Grizzly_82]

I just think Moons just trying to fire the boys up for the year, however he did get in trouble with the leadership group for the article

 

[Partridge]

I just think Moons just trying to fire the boys up for the year, however he did get in trouble with the leadership group for the article

I don't know why he couldn't just say nothing. It's worked well for us in the last few years.

When in doubt, keep silent and let your football do the speaking.

 

[darren forssman]

however he did get in trouble with the leadership group for the article

it is 2 days from breaking...how can they punish him.

 

[Grizzly_82]

there was an article that stated that the leadership group was unhappy with the comments and had spoken to him about it. I ain't making it up just stated what i read.....I'll try and find it

 

[TheTimeCometh]

this window is definitely paneful

 

[BotsMaster]

Im hoping this year we have more opposition coaches talking it up when they face us.

 

[Grizzly_82]

like choco prior to the 2007 GF on the footy show?
classic stuff I miss it

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Spot on. What makes it worse is that the first round picks for GC & GSW are not tradeable. Therefore we have a good year, lose Gaz and then get offered pick 25 for the best player in the comp if we were to use it straight away, well in 2011.

The only upside is we have 5 years to use that pick so if we are rebuilding in 2015 we might have out normal pick 7 and then the pick for Gaz would be pick 8.

Clubs need to nominate before the season that they intend to use their compensation pick in the draft but unless you're planning on bottoming out, it doesn't really help. If you line the picks up over the next few years if Gaz left and we used the pick in 2011 after another strong season we would get a similar pick to for what we got for Mumford or Prismall. Late 20's or early 30's. Is this fair, eqitable. No, it stinks and it would cost our club dearly.

I have no doubt Geelong's premiership window is as wide as the Luna Park entrance just as long as we keep our mids together. Hawkins, Taylor & Mackie have already consolidated key posts (well Mack has at times) and Selwood is odds on to take the mantle from Gaz in a few years time as the comp's finest. Other clubs will lose players to the new franchises as well and the compromised drafts is going to make it tougher for sides to improve through drafting but trading will be player for player rather than picks in the next 2 years.

Agreed. It's a stupid formula.

I can kind of understand why they don't want to make GC trade their top ten picks (so they can build for the long term success from their first draft etc...although geez all those 17 yr olds are as good as first rounders) but surely limiting it to one pick only is stupid, when the calibre of player they'll want will surely be worth more than one pick. I can't see any reason why at the very least, they couldn't see fit to make their formula deliver 2 picks at the end of the first round rather than just one. Now even that (17 + 18) would be nowhere near what Ablett is worth, but that small example points out how inadequate the scheme is.

 

[DanA]

Agreed. It's a stupid formula.

I can kind of understand why they don't want to make GC trade their top ten picks (so they can build for the long term success from their first draft etc...although geez all those 17 yr olds are as good as first rounders) but surely limiting it to one pick only is stupid, when the calibre of player they'll want will surely be worth more than one pick. I can't see any reason why at the very least, they couldn't see fit to make their formula deliver 2 picks at the end of the first round rather than just one. Now even that (17 + 18) would be nowhere near what Ablett is worth, but that small example points out how inadequate the scheme is.

It's not limited to one pick and the formulae has not been realeased to clubs specifically so clubs can't manipulate it with B&F placings etc.

The price is set by the guy in charge of salary cap investigations (can't remember his name). He uses the formula as a guideline to workout what the compensation is.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

It's not limited to one pick and the formulae has not been realeased to clubs specifically so clubs can't manipulate it with B&F placings etc.

The price is set by the guy in charge of salary cap investigations (can't remember his name). He uses the formula as a guideline to workout what the compensation is.

I will concede to you the formulae hasn't been released so neither of us can know for sure. However when the AFL released the concessions they repeatedly said it would be compensation PICK not compensation PICKS, so that's the theory I'm working on. Don't get me wrong, I'll be as happy as anyone to be proved wrong as if you're right we will get something slightly better than what I thought, albeit it's still a shafting.

I have to say the reason why I think it will be limited to one pick is let's say 8-10 players go to GC, half of whom are woth 1st rounders and the other half second rounders. I can't see the AFL creating that many 'new' picks at the end of each round, and they can't very well give clubs 4th round picks in compromised drafts that will be nigh on useless.

One thing's for sure no matter what, we won't get (what they got for Judd) which is what we deserve.

 

[pinion]

i wouldn't be at all surprised if there is no magic formula, with the commission to decide every case on its merits.

and the AFL rules are (deliberately) vague, but whenever the age quotes the compensation system they specifically refer to 'a pick or combination of picks'. i don't think we'll get anywhere near what the judd deal was, but i think that if we got a first and second round pick that we could use in the strongest and most beneficial draft in the next five years i think it's reasonable compensation.

the picks are also only taken at the end of the first round in the compromised 2010 and 2011 drafts (obviously because if teams elected to use their picks in that drafts then the premiership team may not enter the draft until pick 30)

 

[DanA]

i wouldn't be at all surprised if there is no magic formula, with the commission to decide every case on its merits.

and the AFL rules are (deliberately) vague, but whenever the age quotes the compensation system they specifically refer to 'a pick or combination of picks'. i don't think we'll get anywhere near what the judd deal was, but i think that if we got a first and second round pick that we could use in the strongest and most beneficial draft in the next five years i think it's reasonable compensation.

the picks are also only taken at the end of the first round in the compromised 2010 and 2011 drafts (obviously because if teams elected to use their picks in that drafts then the premiership team may not enter the draft until pick 30)

From what I read they used the formula during trade week last year and it worked out to be a relatively accurate reflection of trades values for 2009. This suggest to me that we would get something very similar to what Westcoast recieved for Judd.

I genuinely expect we will get 2 x top 5 picks plus a 2nd rounder.

The catch as you suggest is we can't get full value for them unless we wait the 2 years for the uncompromised draft.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

From what I read they used the formula during trade week last year and it worked out to be a relatively accurate reflection of trades values for 2009. This suggest to me that we would get something very similar to what Westcoast recieved for Judd.

I genuinely expect we will get 2 x top 5 picks plus a 2nd rounder.

The catch as you suggest is we can't get full value for them unless we wait the 2 years for the uncompromised draft.

Then it would be have to be (example), picks 2, 5 and 25 in the 2012 draft, as they've specifically said the compensation picks won't be taken from the picks GC have (and so you'd assume they won't be taken from WSD either then).

Personally, if we were offered a choice of pick 17 (or even 17 and 18) in the 2010 draft, or the former deal in the 2012 draft, the latter one is what I'd prefer. I think with the depth of our midfield we could, while obviously not putting anyone in there as good as Ablett, still do ok and thus afford to be able to wait to use picks. In fact it would be good for Hogan's development (and to ensure we don't lose him) and we have other players like Kel who can also go play in the midfield.

As I've said all along, I'm pessimistic about us getting decent compensation, but I'll be the first to jump for joy if I'm wrong and you're right.

 

[pinion]

The catch as you suggest is we can't get full value for them unless we wait the 2 years for the uncompromised draft.

i actually don't think that's a catch - i think being able to pick our draft is a benefit. wait until we know we'll have a bunch or retirements and delistings and then load up on top 40 picks like we did in 1999 and 2001.

 

[Grizzly_82]

I know I have posted this on the will GAJ leave for the GC tread....but thought it'll help in the current discussion on draft pick compensation.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/pick-26-for-gary-ablett/story-e6frf9jf-1225831972227

Pretty much said we'll get pick 26 right now for him, or trade for a ready made player if we choose to use it this year. Or wait five year.

I realize the GC have all the draft picks first...but wouldn't the AFL make an exception? then again if other AFL players sign up with the GC I can see other picks being thrown around..

Of course this is only valid if he leaves

 

[AcidFiend]

The window has closed for Mooney thats all.

Seriously I was underwhelmed by his efforts last year, he really should be dropped if he doesn't lift his production. We have young kids busting to play.

 

[Vegas.]

The window has closed for Mooney thats all.

Seriously I was underwhelmed by his efforts last year, he really should be dropped if he doesn't lift his production. We have young kids busting to play.

Maybe, but unfortunately none that play the role Mooney does for the team. Nobody in the VFL stood up and kicked a bag of goals except for Pods, who wasn't on the list at the time.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

The window has closed for Mooney thats all.

Seriously I was underwhelmed by his efforts last year, he really should be dropped if he doesn't lift his production. We have young kids busting to play.

I agree with you about his form, but you can't just drop a player unless there's a replacement. You really think Tom Lonergan is?

Unless Pods stars, and the coaches decide they only then want to play 2 talls, Mooney will play as many games as he wants this year.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I know I have posted this on the will GAJ leave for the GC tread....but thought it'll help in the current discussion on draft pick compensation.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/pick-26-for-gary-ablett/story-e6frf9jf-1225831972227

Pretty much said we'll get pick 26 right now for him, or trade for a ready made player if we choose to use it this year. Or wait five year.

I realize the GC have all the draft picks first...but wouldn't the AFL make an exception? then again if other AFL players sign up with the GC I can see other picks being thrown around..

Of course this is only valid if he leaves

It appears my pessimism was right. Pick 26.

Even if we store it away we won't get brilliant value, only bump it up a bit.

 

[jim boy]

Pick 26 is a little bit of a misleading figure, the reality is worse

The thing is that GC has already signed up around a dozen of the best picks already as they were able to select under-age players. Efffectivly our pick would be in the mid-thirties if we were to use it this year.

 

[AidanNelson2009]

I think 2010 is Geelong's last shot at the flag for a couple of season's, we will be losing Milburn, Scarlett, Mooney and Ottens soon which will leave alot of gaps in the team, however the cats won't bottom out and start becoming a low table team, after this year, i can see us finishing around 4th-6th in the future, then hit the top again, we have a really good list, and alot of good young players.

 

[thejester]

Pick 26 is a little bit of a misleading figure, the reality is worse

The thing is that GC has already signed up around a dozen of the best picks already as they were able to select under-age players. Efffectivly our pick would be in the mid-thirties if we were to use it this year.

Except we'd have to be insanely stupid to use it this year.

 

[Turbocat]

It's not limited to one pick and the formulae has not been realeased to clubs specifically so clubs can't manipulate it with B&F placings etc.

The price is set by the guy in charge of salary cap investigations (can't remember his name). He uses the formula as a guideline to workout what the compensation is.

What makes you say that Dan. The AFL website listing the rules states "pick" over and over again.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/76855/default.aspx

It states the best compensation is a pick after our first round pick
It also say's any first round pick can NOT be used till 2012 ( so Im not sure what the sun is talking about) and one must state at the start of the year if one wishes to use the pick.

So one would assume we would try coordinate its use till a super draft such as 2001,2006. If we finish middle of the table and get p7 ( traditionally our earliest pick) then we will probably get something around p8. It gets more complicated , however. What if other teams gain the same compensation for the players they lose and nominate the same year. Its possible we may end up with a pick around 14 for the best player in the league