Our recruiting

[stuckinhill]

Major changes needed in our recruiting department in my opinion. Just have not had the success we should have with our later picks that have been outside the top ten. Yes we have had injuries, but so have other teams (i.e Collingwood) and players have come in and stood up.

 

[djw1952]

Too many outside flankers due to mr hughes and mr ratten recruiting that type for the last 5-6 years.........with the exception of robbo of course. Plenty of skill in the team, but only when hand fed by juddy. Not enough in and under types that you need these days. Carlton were playing as a team at the start of the year, but now they are leaving the hard work to individuals. Ever since they dropped a gear or two against gws, they have not had the work ethic that made them look so good in the first few rounds. Nice couple of weeks to look forward to coming up as well...........

 

[Krooooze]

Rendell in, Hughes out!

Look at his Rendell's strike rate with Adel, talent galore at that club

 

[gardiner stand]

the thinking is ****ed up,look at last year for example we draft rowe coz raten thinks a kp fwd is the answer to our problems then we waste a draft pick on a mature age fwd instead of going for best player.year b4 we need kp def so we draft watson and mcarthy instead of going best available,as it turned out we already hade one (hendo).apparently we had massive midfield depth so didnt need any of those(where the **** are they now?

 

[DerpWerls]

Sorry to intrude guys but just seeking your thoughts on how Bootsma going so far?

Hard not to notice the kid with the hair and all.

 

[Domenic Fotia]

Our first round picks have been ok; Murphy has been great, Gibbs has been good (not great), Kreuzer is developing well. No issues with Yarran.

Russell has been terrible. We have not got much from our second picks ie, Bower & Hampson.

To balance that though we have done well out of the rookie drafts; Jamison, Betts, Garlett.

 

[Madblue]

Warnock = fail
Jacobs = fail
Grigg = fail
Collins = fail
Brok = fail

Theres just a few off the top of my head

 

[Simpleskills]

Sorry to intrude guys but just seeking your thoughts on how Bootsma going so far?

Hard not to notice the kid with the hair and all.

Has a go and I think he uses the football well when it's in his hands. Won't get a look in for a while when the more established players start to come back.

 

[Penetrator]

Wayne Hughes is the worst recruiter in the AFL and has a lot to do with him how little depth we have at the club at the moment. Looking back through the drafts since he has been involved you could argue he has never got the best available talent at the pick he has had available in the main draft.

He has had some success in the rookie draft but surely we want a recruiter that can deliver some quality results in the main draft. He was no good at Fremantle so not sure why we choose to go after him in the first place and how he has survived so long with his results.

As a exercise in hindsight i went through the drafts since he was involved and have listed the players he picked and then next to them players that were after them in the draft we could have picked. I have not bothered with preseason or rookie drafts ;

Russell monfries
harlett lecras
blackwell knights
murphy pendelbury
bower vince
edwards A.swallow
gibbs J selwood
hampson tippett
grigg goldstein
austin robbie gray
benjamen goldsack
anderson jesse white
kreuzer cotchin
browne jack steven
armfield hooker
yarran sidebottom
robinson sloane
okeefe savage
lucas fyfe
davies sam shaw
watson darling
mcarthy luke parker
mitchell alex johnson
mcinnes delaney

Which list of players would you prefer ? We could have had the best midfield to ever play in the competition if we had a recruiter like wells who consistently gets the best available talent at the picks he has available which are always worst than what hughes has to play with.

Time to look at the root cause of the problem and move on Hughes to another club that is desperately looking for half back flankers or mediocre key position players.

 

[Juddrockz]

Sorry to intrude guys but just seeking your thoughts on how Bootsma going so far?

Hard not to notice the kid with the hair and all.

The shining light of the season for me thus far.
From his first game he should he has some gonads and talent.
Looking forward to seeing Boots progress in the Navy blue.

 

[stuckinhill]

I'm glad this discussion is being had. Posters have tried to question our recruiting previously but were always shut down pretty quickly by posters such as Splendini. However it is pretty clear that in a review of our performance this year if we do not fulfil our stated aim of making the top four, this is a discussion that needs to be had and our recruiting must be examined. While I think getting a Stephen Wells or Derek Hine is wishful thinking, we do need to look at some changes and try and get some of the best available recruiters down to Carlton.

 

[I LOVE THE CFC]

Wayne Hughes is the worst recruiter in the AFL and has a lot to do with him how little depth we have at the club at the moment. Looking back through the drafts since he has been involved you could argue he has never got the best available talent at the pick he has had available in the main draft.

He has had some success in the rookie draft but surely we want a recruiter that can deliver some quality results in the main draft. He was no good at Fremantle so not sure why we choose to go after him in the first place and how he has survived so long with his results.

As a exercise in hindsight i went through the drafts since he was involved and have listed the players he picked and then next to them players that were after them in the draft we could have picked. I have not bothered with preseason or rookie drafts ;

Russell monfries
harlett lecras
blackwell knights
murphy pendelbury
bower vince
edwards A.swallow
gibbs J selwood
hampson tippett
grigg goldstein
austin robbie gray
benjamen goldsack
anderson jesse white
kreuzer cotchin
browne jack steven
armfield hooker
yarran sidebottom
robinson sloane
okeefe savage
lucas fyfe
davies sam shaw
watson darling
mcarthy luke parker
mitchell alex johnson
mcinnes delaney

Which list of players would you prefer ? We could have had the best midfield to ever play in the competition if we had a recruiter like wells who consistently gets the best available talent at the picks he has available which are always worst than what hughes has to play with.

Time to look at the root cause of the problem and move on Hughes to another club that is desperately looking for half back flankers or mediocre key position players.

Wow

Obviously with enough picks over time you'll get some right and you'll get some wrong but that list is pretty bad reading for Hughes.

Still it's every kid's dream to play AFL and the squad we have at the moment have been given that chance and they're just pissing it away and counting their cash.

We're such a laughing stock and have been for 10 long years.

R.I.P CFC

 

[Shatterpoint]

We stuffed up royally in the recruting department, went out and drafted skinny, outside wingers, and the inside midfielder we did pay a high price for can only run on the spot and the others have poor skills for AFL level, the Mclean trade was Rattens doing didnt he push hard for him? Lots of changes needed from the top down.

 

[koutamarto]

Recruiting is obviously an issue. But more of an issue is the development.

A kid gets drafted cuz he can play to an extent. The club then has a responsibility to develop him into the player they want. We cant just keep buying players.

Saying not picking pendles over murph is a bit harsh i reckon and Hindsight is an amazing thing.

 

[Monkey King]

I hate those alternative selections lists. No one is going to get the best player available with every one of their picks and Wayne Hughes has pulled out plenty of smokies out for us with later picks, so it's a little unfair IMO. I mean it's not like Pelchen/Hawthorn who fudged a bunch of early picks and could reasonably have had had all of Pendles, Ryder and Selwood, but got basically nothing instead.

The only real beef I have with Hughes is that the building of a list was seemingly being put second to simply drafting players. We've had key deficiencies in the list that needed to be drafted for and weren't for a long time, because there's been a player who was regarded the best available despite being similar enough to other players already on the list.

Club responses to the KPP debate would annoy the hell out of me. They were even referencing Setanta at one point as a reason why we don't need to worry about our bigman stock. Then in one draft, they go reaching for talls, seemingly as a response to criticism from the previous year. And even then, they went with Watson over Darling (sorry Watto, but I was pissed at the time).

The other factor of course, is development of players. I think Gibbs is an example of a poorly developed player being used in roles that may well suit the team best, but don't necessarily bring the best out of the player longterm. Grigg is another to make us sit up and take notice this year. There's a few blokes who seem given a favourable run while others have to work harder for their chances and that sucks at a footy club.

I've had my reservations about Hughes for a while, but I'm no expert on the recruitment of footy players, so I've been happy to defer to his expertise. But I did wonder with Pratt's take on getting the best for all positions, why we didn't chase a Hine, Wells, Clayton type. Anyway, Hughes has moved on as head recruiter now and we've Shane Rogers to give it a crack. And hopefully he nails every damn pick

 

[Penetrator]

I hate those alternative selections lists. No one is going to get the best player available with every one of their picks and Wayne Hughes has pulled out plenty of smokies out for us with later picks, so it's a little unfair IMO. I mean it's not like Pelchen/Hawthorn who fudged a bunch of early picks and could reasonably have had had all of Pendles, Ryder and Selwood, but got basically nothing instead.

The only real beef I have with Hughes is that the building of a list was seemingly being put second to simply drafting players. We've had key deficiencies in the list that needed to be drafted for and weren't for a long time, because there's been a player who was regarded the best available despite being similar enough to other players already on the list.

Club responses to the KPP debate would annoy the hell out of me. They were even referencing Setanta at one point as a reason why we don't need to worry about our bigman stock. Then in one draft, they go reaching for talls, seemingly as a response to criticism from the previous year. And even then, they went with Watson over Darling (sorry Watto, but I was pissed at the time).

The other factor of course, is development of players. I think Gibbs is an example of a poorly developed player being used in roles that may well suit the team best, but don't necessarily bring the best out of the player longterm. Grigg is another to make us sit up and take notice this year. There's a few blokes who seem given a favourable run while others have to work harder for their chances and that sucks at a footy club.

I've had my reservations about Hughes for a while, but I'm no expert on the recruitment of footy players, so I've been happy to defer to his expertise. But I did wonder with Pratt's take on getting the best for all positions, why we didn't chase a Hine, Wells, Clayton type. Anyway, Hughes has moved on as head recruiter now and we've Shane Rogers to give it a crack. And hopefully he nails every damn pick

What is the list of plenty of smokies Wayne Hughes has pulled out for us later picks in the draft ?

 

[mediumsizered]

What is the list of plenty of smokies Wayne Hughes has pulled out for us later picks in the draft ?

Jamison, Garlett, Betts, Jacobs (not Hughes' fault that he went to Adelaide), Duigan, Robinson, Armfield, Ellard.

Where our recruiting has been hamstrung somewhat has been the trading away of 2nd round draft picks over the last 4 years (Judd trade, Warnock trade, Laidler trade) & we are still paying a huge price for our drafting from 2002-2004 (admittedly 2002 & 2003 were hampered by our draft penalties) when we needed to start rebuilding. Those players would all be in the 25-28 year age group.

 

[stuckinhill]

Jamison, Garlett, Betts, Jacobs (not Hughes' fault that he went to Adelaide), Duigan, Robinson, Armfield, Ellard.

Where our recruiting has been hamstrung somewhat has been the trading away of 2nd round draft picks over the last 4 years (Judd trade, Warnock trade, Laidler trade) & we are still paying a huge price for our drafting from 2002-2004 (admittedly 2002 & 2003 were hampered by our draft penalties) when we needed to start rebuilding. Those players would all be in the 25-28 year age group.

In 2004 we didn't have any penalties. 2002-2003 undoubtedly hurt, but still teams have managed to rebuild due to outstanding drafting skills despite not having Judd and three number 1 selections. Look at West Coast and Adelaide for example. Hughes has been moved on from head recruiter. IMO he should never have been in that position in the first place if we have the policy of going for the best available out there. We need to seriously examine if we have the best available recruiters at the club now. Using penalties that were now given out almost ten years ago as an excuse will only stop us moving forward.

 

[zhoung]

Rendell in, Hughes out!

Look at his Rendell's strike rate with Adel, talent galore at that club

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/pies-to-recruit-rendell-20120529-1zhfc.html

That wont be happening, Rendell already commited to Pies...
Difficult for Blues as when you go thru the process and appoint who you feel is best available you hav to back them in a bit. As with a coach, some appointments are untried, as Hine was with us and only in hindsight can you review thir performance.

 

[Penetrator]

Jamison, Garlett, Betts, Jacobs (not Hughes' fault that he went to Adelaide), Duigan, Robinson, Armfield, Ellard.

Where our recruiting has been hamstrung somewhat has been the trading away of 2nd round draft picks over the last 4 years (Judd trade, Warnock trade, Laidler trade) & we are still paying a huge price for our drafting from 2002-2004 (admittedly 2002 & 2003 were hampered by our draft penalties) when we needed to start rebuilding. Those players would all be in the 25-28 year age group.

So the later picks you mean the rookie draft picks where i would argue other people have more involvement with those selections than Hughes. Where are his smokies with later picks in the main drafts ? 8 years of doing it surely we should have a couple...

Dont include Robbo as look at that draft and it was a bumper draft and many picks after robbo that would hve been just as good if not better.

Duigan ???? 27 year old with so many limitations its not funny.


Trading of 2nd round draft picks has nothing to do with his poor recruiting skills because even if we had them available going by his track record he would have botched them anyhow.

 

[stuckinhill]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/pies-to-recruit-rendell-20120529-1zhfc.html

That wont be happening, Rendell already commited to Pies...
Difficult for Blues as when you go thru the process and appoint who you feel is best available you hav to back them in a bit. As with a coach, some appointments are untried, as Hine was with us and only in hindsight can you review thir performance.

Agree to an extent. However a lot of our recruiters were taken from Fremantle, and Fremantle's record of recruiting was hardly outstanding. While Hine had not been proven as a head recruiter, he was rated highly by a lot of people and it was pretty clearly very quickly he had the goods (basically everyone would rate him now other than maybe Splendini, but Splendini still probably thinks Hughes should be our head recruiter). In my opinion it was clear Hughes should not be head recruiter pretty quickly as well, but we only sorted that out at the start of this year.

 

[gbatman]

Drafted far too many players based on athletic testing. Drafted light soft bodied running players and have neglected to draft hard bodied footballers.

The work Steve Silvagni has done at drafting a team of strong footballers for GWS really puts us to shame.

 

[mediumsizered]

So the later picks you mean the rookie draft picks where i would argue other people have more involvement with those selections than Hughes. Where are his smokies with later picks in the main drafts ? 8 years of doing it surely we should have a couple...

Dont include Robbo as look at that draft and it was a bumper draft and many picks after robbo that would hve been just as good if not better.

Duigan ???? 27 year old with so many limitations its not funny.


Trading of 2nd round draft picks has nothing to do with his poor recruiting skills because even if we had them available going by his track record he would have botched them anyhow.

I think Robbo instead of Rounds (Collingwood), Banfield (Brisbane), Banner (Port), Anthony (North), Bennell (Melbourne), Blight (Collingwood), Heyne (St Kilda), Lisle (Hawthorn), Jetta (Melbourne) demonstrates by that stage of the draft the pickings were quite slim, with these players being taken just before, or just after Robbo in the draft.

Duigan was very good last year in a relatively settled defence. He was clearly best 22, but unfortunately has been restricted by injuries this season.

FWIW, how come recruiters from other clubs get credit for finding 'gems' late in the ND, or in the rookie draft, yet according to you other people have involvement in these picks at Carlton? The word 'agenda' comes to mind.

 

[Korn]

A lot of us have been saying Wayne Hughes is no good a few years ago already but of course the Wayne Hughes topic has been banned here. Can't believe he is still at our club, he has been awful for over a decade with us and other clubs as well.

 

[Krooooze]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/pies-to-recruit-rendell-20120529-1zhfc.html

That wont be happening, Rendell already commited to Pies...
Difficult for Blues as when you go thru the process and appoint who you feel is best available you hav to back them in a bit. As with a coach, some appointments are untried, as Hine was with us and only in hindsight can you review thir performance.

Says he is on the verge of joining. Doesn't say he has officially committed. Although prob will happen. I don't know why we wouldn't be into him (if we haven't been) .